[AJITHAAA]

Originally Posted by jeepster_chd

$6 price cut is per barrel not per litre Moreover to rear 1.25 crores of us Govt does need some cash.

You are right, I fell into the numbers game without considering the measure. But it still works out to Rs.2.33.

[nug1]

Good that both fuels' prices have been slashed by same amount without bias to one over other. I think this in effect means that final price 'reduction' for the end user will be marginally higher for petrol than for diesel (due to higher tax rates on petrol).

[JD1]

Filled up Petrol at BP station in Bangalore and the new price is 70.31 v/s the old price of 72.96 so the difference is 2.65. I believe the additional benefit is due to tax reductions.

[sumzup]

Originally Posted by RSR

I'm sorry, but there is a difference, and a huge one at that!

Shell may source their fuel from the PSU refineries, but that doesn't mean the fuel you get at a Shell pump is the same rotten stuff that's dished out at many of the PSU ones.


For one, Shell have a separate supply chain that they carefully monitor. They don't make use of the oil tanker cartel of the PSU cabal at all. The adulteration mafia is deeply involved with the tanker cartel. The adulteration mafia is diabolically evil, and they can stoop to any lows. Ever heard of heroes like Manjunath Shanmugam and Yashwant Sonawane, both of whom were martyred because they dared to take on the filthy criminals of the oil adulteration mafia?

Another big source of fuel adulteration and shortchanging customers occurs at the dealer (fuel outlet) level. It's very common to come across either or both forms of malpractice at pumps of the PSU oil cabal.

Shell gives their dealers a higher margin, and also makes the quality and quantity verifiable by customers. There is a measuring can that you can always fill at Shell pumps to check the quantity pumped out. I'm quite sure there's a way to check the quality too. Apart from a handful of COCO PSU pumps, such things are unheard of at most pumps of the PSU cabal.

The pump attendants are another difference. The ones at the PSU cabal's pumps are very poorly paid, poorly trained, very often quite rude, have no loyalty to their employer, and are looking to cheat the customer at every available opportunity.

The ones at Shell are better paid, loyal to the company and their employer (i.e. the Shell franchisee), well trained, polite and don't even attempt to rip the customers off.

Shell cannot survive as a pure fuel marketing company were it not for these H-U-G-E differences. Neither can the Shell franchisees remain in business (considering the higher cost per litre they charge), were it not for these H-U-G-E differences.

The source of fuel may be the same (PSU refineries), but to suggest there is no difference is a joke!

Phew RSR if the PSUs could only read this. They would really understand how frustrated the customers are today. Well, RSR, you may be right when you say that there is a difference in the fuel that is dished out but again do you think that the PSUs want to lose out on their own sales by giving better fuel to a competitor and sell sub-standard fuel at their own outlets? My take is that No stuff is rotten but what is bad is the level of support and service we get.

Today, adulteration is restricted to some geographical areas and again the heroes you mentioned are victims of different circumstances. The former was a victim to a rogue dealer who was under-filling and the latter to the mafia who were pilfering on a large scale in Maharashtra. The adulterants don't come cheap today and with higher levels of checking and also due to competitions it is again done remotely in deep, interior parts of the country.

There are about 800 retail outlets run by dealers of the OMCs currently in Bangalore and what according to you is the number that cheats, adulterates, and/or short-changes the customers. These outlets have been operating since, let’s say, shortly after independence and out of the 60 years of operations, public laxity or apathy and/or market dominance or simply out of complacency most of them have misplaced the importance of customer service. With Shell, there are 28 outlets in Bangalore and which are operating since about 7-8 years. These outlets are run more professionally and of course as mentioned below are better profited but now gradually one gets to hear the drop in service levels, being pushy, not offered all the services at all levels of purchase, and so on. IMHO, it is anybody's guess where it would be after few more years.

You have hit the nail on the head, Shell definitely gives better margins without which there would be nobody to take the dealerships in the first place. Their business model does not run like the regular model adopted by the PSUs.

There are measuring cans with all the outlets but most of us are already polarized or opinionated. More than 50 percent of outlets are fully automatized and the rest would be done within the next 5 years. More than 40 percent of them are ISO certified and the certifications are done by external auditing agencies; most of whom are not Indian companies. With the advent of competition, most of the dealers are already spending more time at the outlets to monitor their staff and improving the services provided to ensure that they do not completely lose their customers.

If loyalty is directly proportional to the money earned then politics and business in India would have been long changed. We should be happy with Shell as they have made the rest to stand up and deliver or get busted

In India, Shell is a pure marketing company and then definitely will have to continue to outperform in comparison to other Indian PSU-driven outlets to survive.

And my friend, I'm also one of the long-frustrated customer who has silently endured the iniquitous actions for long and looking forward to some good times ahead.

[MODS: I guess I'm off topic but then this is just the other view on what was put and wished to post my comment. You can remove it if it does not belong here]

[RSR]

Well, sumzup, I don't expect the oil marketing PSUs to change even if they find out how frustrated customers are.

The three PSU oil marketing companies form a strong cartel (a notorious cabal, in fact). The three members of this cabal/cartel now do as they please, and their common owner (i.e. the central government) either deliberately turns a blind eye to their deeds, or actively goads them to do what they are doing!

How else can you explain this. After diesel was also de-regulated, the price difference between petrol & diesel came down to only ₹ 9.97 per litre in Chennai in February. Now, it has risen to ₹ 16.21 per litre and it has been only five months.

In February, diesel was sold for 48.91 rupees/litre, while now it is ₹ 51.08 rupees/litre (all numbers represent prices of the PSU cabal, taken from the IOC website).

Mind you, in the state of Tamil Nadu, there has been absolutely no change in the VAT rate for a few YEARS, yes for YEARS & not mere months, neither increase nor decrease! So don't tell me it's because of tax increase by the state government, because it is NOT, at least in Tamil Nadu.

So why did the difference between petrol and diesel go up from ₹ 9.97 in Februrary to a whopping & disgusting ₹ 16.21 now, when diesel prices are at nearly the same level, and when there has been no change in state VAT or indeed the central government taxes?

Why are petrol users having to pay an additional 6+ rupees now in Chennai, over and above the 10 rupee difference earlier, adding up to a whopping 16+ rupees, when everything else remains at the same level?

Where is this additional 6+ rupees for every litre of petrol going to?

Again, please don't tell me the PSU cabal were making a loss on every litre of petrol sold in February, because they clearly WEREN'T, as petrol was supposedly "de-regulated" long, long ago and way, way before diesel was.

I'd like to ask you, where is the additional 6+ rupees per every litre of petrol sold going to?

Who is pocketing it?

Is it the PSU cabal, since both fuels are "de-regulated" now, as it was back in February?

Or is it the common owner of the PSU cabal?

Do you not think this is sheer injustice to petrol users? Is it not blind looting?

And you seriously want me to believe the PSU cabal are going to change their ways when they read the frustrated outpouring of common people who have been continually wronged?

Ha! All I can say is this:

[sgiitk]

Kejriwal is claiming some agreement on VAT across northern states. I see that Punjab and Haryana have also jacked up VAT at least on Diesel.

If this is indeed so then

1. Why not put fuel into the GST?
2. Have the same VAT for Diesel and Petrol.

[shankar.balan]

Diesel in Pondicherry last week cost 52
In Bangalore it is 55-56

I think it is time that all fuel prices across India were made uniform.
And before I get berated for this, yes, I know Bangalore is landlocked and there are trucking costs etc.
But then so is Delhi landlocked but the prices in Delhi are by far the cheapest in India!
Ridiculous, considering that perhaps 65% of all the taxes we pay in this country end up getting deployed in some way or other in the National Capital!
These policies are Rubbish!

If a particular state or city has a high tax paying population, it is the government's bounden duty to ensure that the tax payers get what they pay for! For example, there are so many high tax payers in Bangalore, yet look at the pathetic infrastructure and development situation here!

Hateful!

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by JD1

Filled up Petrol at BP station in Bangalore and the new price is 70.31 v/s the old price of 72.96 so the difference is 2.65. I believe the additional benefit is due to tax reductions.

I filled petrol in my 2 wheeler yesterday at Bommanahalli BP. The price there is Rs 70.25
Whenever there is a price hike, Bangaloreans will suffer more because of the additional tax. We reap the benefits when the prices come down

[Senna4Ever]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Kejriwal is claiming some agreement on VAT across northern states. I see that Punjab and Haryana have also jacked up VAT at least on Diesel.

After Delhi, Haryana and Punjab have increased VAT on Diesel in an attempt to equalize prices across themselves and Delhi. This action is part of larger agreement between New Delhi, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Chandigarh to implement uniform tax structures.

Punjab and Haryana have increased VAT (to 13.4% and 16.4% resp.) in order to level net taxation on Diesel at 17.29% and 17.22% respectively. Himachal Pradesh is expected to follow suit. Petrol taxes remain untouched.

Before VAT hike and Rs.2 deduction, Diesel price in Punjab was Rs. 51.66 and in Haryana was Rs. 50.14 . Post-hike prices are much closer at Rs. 50.41 (PB) and Rs. 50.10 (HR). Delhi's current price is Rs. 49.72 .

Have the same VAT for Diesel and Petrol

Only Diesel taxes have been altered to various degrees as the motive is to curb smuggling and tax evasion.

How convenient and smart for the government to wait for a fortnightly drop in prices to absorb the immediate perception and then enjoy even greater revenue once the prices go back up.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

How convenient and smart for the government to wait for a fortnightly drop in prices to absorb the immediate perception and then enjoy even greater revenue once the prices go back up.

Exactly, they are essentially spendthrifts and find auto fuels an easy source of revenue.

As you say the prices are being rationalised for whatever reason, then why not include fuels in GST?

[Senna4Ever]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Exactly, they are essentially spendthrifts and find auto fuels an easy source of revenue.

As you say the prices are being rationalised for whatever reason, then why not include fuels in GST?

Fuels are an easy as well as major source of revenue for states. They would love to have total control over its taxation to play with it (increase it through VAT, cess etc.) at their will. As per my understanding, GST makes it difficult and some states have managed to keep the centre out of it for few years.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Senna4Ever

Fuels are an easy as well as major source of revenue for states. They would love to have total control over its taxation to play with it (increase it through VAT, cess etc.) at their will. As per my understanding, GST makes it difficult and some states have managed to keep the centre out of it for few years.

If you see now the differential across states (possibly excluding MH) is not too much. So there is no point in the separate taxation policy.

[lurker]

for all the money these PSU and Govt charge us, they haven't even found the time or place to repay it's largest supplier Iran. As of today they are indebted to pay Iran 6.5 billion $. Thus while overcharging us consumers, they were not even paying their suppliers a single dime for last 2 years.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...3.cms?from=mdr

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by lurker

Thus while overcharging us consumers, they were not even paying their suppliers a single dime for last 2 years.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...3.cms?from=mdr

Current and previous govts could not pay in cash due to limitations imposed on Iran (economic sanctions). Now that sanctions have been lifted, payments can be made.

Part of payments were done by offsetting it against Indian exports such as medicines and machinery.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by lurker

for all the money these PSU and Govt charge us, they haven't even found the time or place to repay it's largest supplier Iran. As of today they are indebted to pay Iran 6.5 billion $. Thus while overcharging us consumers, they were not even paying their suppliers a single dime for last 2 years.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...3.cms?from=mdr

Before jumping the gun let us look at another possibility. With sanctions in place there was no legitimate way to pay them. So maybe now! Hopefully the money was in an escrow account.