[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by humyum

I am surprised that the transport union, cab wala's, bus companies and anything and everything that runs on fuel are not staging a mass protest everywhere or are they sold off too?

All of them have conducted fair bit of protests and strikes in the recent past. But mainstream media has been busy in the mission of diverting attention from the issues which affect daily day life of the people, thats why none of the protest effort could succeed in creating any buzz.

Truck owners begin nationwide strike against hike in fuel prices and insurance premium


Autos, taxis and petrol pumps go on strike today, set to inconvenience commuters in Delhi-NCR

[sgiitk]

@tbppjpr; Now fuel prices are back to the August levels and I am glad that Diesel is costlier. The main grouse of the Truckers was and is the insurance costs. They also afaik have no qualms about making multiple claims on on incident (as per a senior Insurer). I think we still end up subsidizing them.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@tbppjpr; Now fuel prices are back to the August levels and I am glad that Diesel is costlier. The main grouse of the Truckers was and is the insurance costs. They also afaik have no qualms about making multiple claims on on incident (as per a senior Insurer). I think we still end up subsidizing them.

what I am dedinitely not glad is that prices are not falling below ₹75 both for petrol & diesel despite international nymex at $58 and brent at $65. So with such low numbers our local prices are at such an inflated level.

Makes really no sense for a tax payer to keep giving taxes and heavy premium for basic essentials over and above his contribution. Both diesel and petrol are making lesser and lesser sense every day of this fake decline.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Miyata

While I totally agree to that, the other feature operating deep within us Indians is that we accept pain as part of life (karmic balance) and try adjusting with and to it! We have accepted as a law of the universe and life that without consuming some poison we could never find the nectar.

A typical westerner, on the other hand, has very low tolerance for discomfort and displeasure. They wibove.

The sheer amount of nonsense that we Indians just put up with, in our own country, even after paying ridiculous taxes and double taxes, is unbelievable! In any other country there would be a revolution!
To be born in India, in some sense, is truly a curse.

[lurker]

In a way this premium of ₹20-30 per litre that we pay over & above the cost plus profit of fuel is dismissed away as the premium to be paid for development of the nation. But since development is continuous, this premium charged is also not limited by time. That is, it will be charged forever because customers are in a position of weakness as they cannot influence supply or demand in this market and they can be fleeced forever.

Developed markets like France, Germany also charge this premium on fuel as an easy way to collect revenue, though what they do with such revenue is another story.

Most often such easy money never goes into development but are misused for arms purchases (lots of arms purchased but no wars), donation to needy countries, better ameneties for VVIPs like Boeing 737 for VVIP duty replaced by spanking new 777. Discretionary expenditure for 'managing' neighbourhood countries politics and counter intel ops. Splurging on luxury vehicles for VVIP duties. Every lallu panju wants to travel in nothing less than pajero or fortuner. Equipping police forces with cyber facilities to keep civilians on leash in social media. Ensure better spyware to keep track of civilians making rebellious statements on social media. This is the social work that is done with the petrol taxes and premium.

Why I give such a dim review of utilization of taxes on petrol is because there is very little plans and project management expertise to implement plans for expenditure in development. Easy money finds easy outlets.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by lurker

Most often such easy money never goes into development but are misused for arms purchases (lots of arms purchased but no wars), donation to needy countries, better ameneties for VVIPs like Boeing 737 for VVIP duty replaced by spanking new 777. Discretionary expenditure for 'managing' neighbourhood countries politics and counter intel ops. Splurging on luxury vehicles for VVIP duties. Every lallu panju wants to travel in nothing less than pajero or fortuner. Equipping police forces with cyber facilities to keep civilians on leash in social media. Ensure better spyware to keep track of civilians making rebellious statements on social media. This is the social work that is done with the petrol taxes and premium.

Why I give such a dim review of utilization of taxes on petrol is because there is very little plans and project management expertise to implement plans for expenditure in development. Easy money finds easy outlets.

Well, I'm not justifying the high fuel prices, but the premium isn't used just for those things that you've mentioned. It also goes towards meaningful development works like the following:

1) Several infrastructure projects, such as:
* 1a) Roads in the north east (browse thru all pages of https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=298320).
* 1b) New airports in Sikkim, Shirdi, etc.
* 1c) Speeding up and completion of the huuuge Bogibeel bridge over the Brahmaputra in 3 years after it was stuck for over a decade.
* 1d) Metro works in several cities have been sped up like on steroids (Metro projects are 50-50 state-center projects).
* 1e) New expressways proposals on fast track (Mumbai-Nagpur, Delhi-Mumbai, etc there are several).
* 1f) Eastern and Western Peripheral Expwy in Delhi
* 1g) Upcoming Mumbai coastal freeway, MTHL, etc, and 4/6-laning of several roads.

2) Massive transformation of Railways, such as (browse thru all pages of https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showt...php?t=638652):
* 2a) Train18.
* 2b) Elimination of unmanned railway crossings.
* 2c) Proliferation of railways in the northeast, such as: Recent opening of broad guage lines in Agartala/Tripura).
* 2d) Greatly speeded up Dedicated Freight Corridor construction. An indicator of this is the greatly increased order of automatic track laying machines (which you can verify on your own at https://www.plasserindia.com/en/comp...a/history.html).
* 2e) Track-doubling on a massive scale.

3) Developing inland water ways, eg: (and see video at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lziJjb1YBAI):

Gujarat's RO-RO (Roll On Roll Off) ferry bween Ghogha and Dahej cuts down a 6.5 hr trip to 90 mins. The ferry can carry around 60 trucks, five to seven buses, 35-40 cars and an equal number of bikes in addition to 525 passengers. Operated by Surat-based Indigo Seaways Pvt Ltd (ISPL). Source: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...0-minutes.html (Gujarat's Ro-Ro ferry to cut down 6.5 hour trip to 90 minutes)

All these require funds, and are well intentioned works.

But I'd rather our income taxes pay for these works rather than unjustified fuel price increases.

Well, the saving grace is that the income tax collections are also improving in good measure.

[lurker]

Well vharihar saar, the profits (taxes and obscene profit) from oil go to the consolidated fund of India (CFI), these funds are supposed to be audited by CAG but it is also a sinkhole. Railways, highways, metro have their own budgets sourced from WB loan, Japan loan, ADB loan, dedicated debt instruments etc. This is the way govt accounting works though there may be areas of overlap.

Us commons need not be under any undue pressure to think that these oil funds go only into developmental activities. Because that is a path to neverending cycle of oil premiums.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by lurker

Well vharihar saar, the profits (taxes and obscene profit) from oil go to the consolidated fund of India (CFI), these funds are supposed to be audited by CAG but it is also a sinkhole. Railways, highways, metro have their own budgets sourced from WB loan, Japan loan, ADB loan, dedicated debt instruments etc. This is the way govt accounting works though there may be areas of overlap.

Us commons need not be under any undue pressure to think that these oil funds go only into developmental activities. Because that is a path to neverending cycle of oil premiums.

Well, loans do need to be repaid! They're not a gift!

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by lurker

what I am dedinitely not glad is that prices are not falling below ₹75 both for petrol & diesel despite international nymex at $58 and brent at $65. So with such low numbers our local prices are at such an inflated level.

Makes really no sense for a tax payer to keep giving taxes and heavy premium for basic essentials over and above his contribution. Both diesel and petrol are making lesser and lesser sense every day of this fake decline.

Today I bought Diesel at just under 70 a litre. I use it for my genset.

Originally Posted by lurker

In a way this premium of ₹20-30 per litre that we pay over & above the cost plus profit of fuel is dismissed away as the premium to be paid for development of the nation. But since development is continuous, this premium charged is also not limited by time. That is, it will be charged forever because customers are in a position of weakness as they cannot influence supply or demand in this market and they can be fleeced forever.

Developed markets like France, Germany also charge this premium on fuel as an easy way to collect revenue, though what they do with such revenue is another story.

Most often such easy money never goes into development but are misused for arms purchases (lots of arms purchased but no wars), donation to needy countries, better ameneties for VVIPs like Boeing 737 for VVIP duty replaced by spanking new 777. Discretionary expenditure for 'managing' neighbourhood countries politics and counter intel ops. Splurging on luxury vehicles for VVIP duties. Every lallu panju wants to travel in nothing less than pajero or fortuner. Equipping police forces with cyber facilities to keep civilians on leash in social media. Ensure better spyware to keep track of civilians making rebellious statements on social media. This is the social work that is done with the petrol taxes and premium. .

I disagree on some points. Arms are required. Our forces were starved on this account for two decades. The age old Bofors has been replaced only now. Mirage is being replaced next year. As for Netas going for swank vehicles, I oppose it. But then I do not want them in Maruti 800s or Hyundai Santros either. I also do not like the social snooping, but it costs near nothing.

Consider this we are paying far less for fuel than the Europeans are. I think barring the gulf area and the US we are not that badly off.

[Aditya]

Mod Note: Please keep politics out of the discussion. Stick to the topic of fuel prices.

[GeneralJazz]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Consider this we are paying far less for fuel than the Europeans are. I think barring the gulf area and the US we are not that badly off.

I suppose stuff like the average monthly income per family are irrelevant to your argument.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by GeneralJazz

I suppose stuff like the average monthly income per family are irrelevant to your argument.

Yes it is, Crude costs the same, and then refining is also very similar. Only distribution and margins are what we can play with. So why argue on the pricing.

[Mohan Mathew A]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Yes it is, Crude costs the same, and then refining is also very similar. Only distribution and margins are what we can play with. So why argue on the pricing.

You conveniently forgot the largest component-Tax. How do you justify such high taxation for a low income country for a product which every strata consumes

[V.Narayan]

Not sure what the exasperation is all about. Let's look at the facts instead of the emotional political outbursts that some of us are indulging in.

Cost of 1 lire petrol*

Singapore ~Rs 128 equivalent
UK ~ Rs 120 equivalent
South Africa ~Rs 88 equivalent

Delhi Rs 79 !!! - it will vary by State

* current prices at current exchange rates

And just remind me what are we griping about.

This is an international commodity. And we import most of our crude. Oil prices across the world have stiffened lately. Our retail prices will go up. It has been so since 1973.

[swissknife]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Not sure what the exasperation is all about. Let's look at the facts instead of the emotional political outbursts that some of us are indulging in.

Cost of 1 lire petrol*

Singapore ~Rs 128 equivalent
UK ~ Rs 120 equivalent
South Africa ~Rs 88 equivalent

Delhi Rs 79 !!! - it will vary by State

* current prices at current exchange rates

And just remind me what are we griping about.

This is an international commodity. And we import most of our crude. Oil prices across the world have stiffened lately. Our retail prices will go up. It has been so since 1973.

I don't think one can compare without factoring the incomes in each of the countries listed. What can the cost of one liter of fuel buy in each of these counties?