[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

still not justified. this is india and not US. We don't have a right to bear arms. it's not as if the civilian had the gun pointed to his head. Even if the civilian would have wished to take up the case to higher authorities, he lost all his chances by snatching the gun. infact he can be prosecuted for that.

Can you justify the bullying by those officers. The Maruti 800 was not damaged, but we expect them to behave responsibly.
Think of common man going to higher authorities and we will come to know the truth. Even in the link provided by another user in this thread, he did not go to higher authorities. There is no point in spending your energy and resources.
Our judiciary system is known to us all, so it meaningless complaining.
I dont know laws, but support what the man did. He protected himself and his family. Nothing wrong.
There has to be some basic discipline and if not, are we criminals that we have to suffer from injustice. NO.
We have more right to road IMO as far as civilian roads are concerned unless they are on duty.
I suggest that you think yourself what will you do if you are bullied if you are just a common man without any contacts etc.
You will then support this move of his.

[invincible7]

For the defence personells, i can only say they are disciplined and mature when they are in the defence premises. Once out of it they forget everything and are one of the hardest personnel to deal with. Dont know whether its the attitude they carry or something which is in them which tells them that they are above everyone.
Serving ones country is a matter of pride, but on the same lines it doesnt gives them the right to break rules and do their fancies once in civilian land.

[simply_sunny001]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

And if you encounter a Jeep/Gypsy being driven by a driver with officer sitting besides just make sure to move away from its path,as they just dont budge even a CM from their line no matter what you do.

thats a bit too much,i believe they will have to give way to a CM assuming a officer is not the chief of staff or someone beyond that,it all depends on hierarchy.
Forget any petty army officer coming in way of a CM cavalcade.

Originally Posted by akshay4587

And I admit that most drivers handling those big 4X4 trucks are stupid drivers.Most of them are not trained properly to handle the big vehicles.

army drivers are very much trained and adept to driving those monster vehicles but not in crowded traffic areas which is new for them.
Most of them are comfortable moving in convoys not in our bumper to bumper traffic.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Can you justify the bullying by those officers. The Maruti 800 was not damaged, but we expect them to behave responsibly.

Ok, firstly, if you read my posts carefully, i have nowhere said that the bullying was justified. All i am saying is that the gun snatching part was way out of the line and is unacceptable.

Don't always underestimate the judiciary. There have been cases with positive outcomes. And one can't complain without trying.

Also, the man could have written a stinker to the army higher authorities. Any written complain against officers is seriously looked into.

I dont know laws, but support what the man did. He protected himself and his family.

You make it seem that the army personnel were going to shoot him and that's why he snatched the gun.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001

thats a bit too much,i believe they will have to give way to a CM assuming a officer is not the chief of staff or someone beyond that,it all depends on hierarchy.
Forget any petty army officer coming in way of a CM cavalcade.

I come across at least 20-30 Jeeps/Gypsies on a daily basis,and here we are not talking about any cavalcades,referring to normal daily commuters.

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001

army drivers are very much trained and adept to driving those monster vehicles but not in crowded traffic areas which is new for them.
Most of them are comfortable moving in convoys not in our bumper to bumper traffic.

If they cant drive in traffic whats the use of training?
I have seen them panic in traffic,(many of them not all).

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

1) Ok, firstly, if you read my posts carefully, i have nowhere said that the bullying was justified. All i am saying is that the gun snatching part was way out of the line and is unacceptable.

2) Don't always underestimate the judiciary. There have been cases with positive outcomes. And one can't complain without trying.

3) Also, the man could have written a stinker to the army higher authorities. Any written complain against officers is seriously looked into.

4) You make it seem that the army personnel were going to shoot him and that's why he snatched the gun.

1) Yes, OK I understood you point dude.
2) How many. Its always some cases with positive outcomes.
3) Would have helped ? I dont think so. And what will happen then. Going to court for justice or repeatedely going in front of judges, etc and explain them ?
4) No, but he lost his cool when he saw the person was now heading to center point with gun. He might have thought " If these men are bullying, then the person in gun must be coming to use gun. These are bullies right now troubling me so how can I trust this gunman ".

[lazy]

While I too have seen a disregard for road rules by army drivers, it is really minute in comparison with the absolute goodagiri by politicos, local civic body officers, and thier collective family members.

And as a citizen and fellow road user, I am more tolerant to an errant armyman than to the others.

Also, in a situation:
-army guys will try thier best to get away by showing strength of numbers.
-whereas, the other types seem to be more willing to threaten, and in many cases even pushing/shoving/manhandle the affected party.

(In a bad situation even the armymen will get physical, I am only highlighting the propensity)

cheers
lazy

[bblost]

Have you noticed that any time an Indian in India gets a bit of authority or power he forgets India.
The power could be in numbers, money or simply the absence of a deterrent.

[tsk1979]

Note from mod: Thread thread is about violation of road rules by people in authority, lets not bring in other issues in here, and only stick to traffic rule issues

[tsk1979]

I am a frequent highway driver, and often do NH1, which passes through Haryana and Punjab.
NH1 is the only major road which connects Delhi to the northern states, and is one of the oldest highways in the world.
I must say, that cars belonging to police etc., and other people in authority are a nuisance.
They are ambassadors and travel at around 80kmph(below speed limit of 90).
If you are behind a truck waiting for the truck to get away, and you find them behind you, be prepared for extensive siren etc., as if you are deliberately not overtaking that truck.
Finally when you reach empty road, where you can overtake them, they try to make it difficult for you. This is esp true of there is a police escort.
Its like they are trying to show you that you are a lesser citizen, better stay behind.
In the interiors its worse.
I have seen them overtake vehicles without even checking if there is oncoming traffic. Infact I once saw a bus almost lose control in his attempt to go off road in order to avoid collision with a ministers car.
And if by chance you get into an accident with these people for no fault of yours, you will be tormented for life, as they will try to make the most trouble for you.

So whats the solution?
If the guy is slow, I try to get maximum gap between them and me, otherwise I time my tea break so that the maniac goes far ahead.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I am a frequent highway driver, and often do NH1, which passes through Haryana and Punjab.
NH1 is the only major road which connects Delhi to the northern states, and is one of the oldest highways in the world.
I must say, that cars belonging to police etc., and other people in authority are a nuisance.
They are ambassadors and travel at around 80kmph(below speed limit of 90).
If you are behind a truck waiting for the truck to get away, and you find them behind you, be prepared for extensive siren etc., as if you are deliberately not overtaking that truck.
Finally when you reach empty road, where you can overtake them, they try to make it difficult for you. This is esp true of there is a police escort.
Its like they are trying to show you that you are a lesser citizen, better stay behind.
In the interiors its worse.
I have seen them overtake vehicles without even checking if there is oncoming traffic. Infact I once saw a bus almost lose control in his attempt to go off road in order to avoid collision with a ministers car.
And if by chance you get into an accident with these people for no fault of yours, you will be tormented for life, as they will try to make the most trouble for you.

So whats the solution?
If the guy is slow, I try to get maximum gap between them and me, otherwise I time my tea break so that the maniac goes far ahead.

So true,esp on Chandigarh-Delhi,and Jalandhar-Delhi Stretch.
The convoys usually have gypsies and they max out a 110 with all those commando's loaded.
Overtaking them is like you are commiting a crime.

I even had an arguement with one of the gypsy commandos,who just would let me overtake,and would just block my way as I tried to go ahead.
Moron's like them force you to lose your temper.

Worse are those private qualises,Innovas,Ambasadors,blowing sirens on your A***,all I do i press Accelerator/Blip throttle as soon as I find them in my RVM.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So whats the solution?
If the guy is slow, I try to get maximum gap between them and me, otherwise I time my tea break so that the maniac goes far ahead.

Practically there is no solution to this problem.
This is what happens if there is police escort on NE-1. Those in Optra 1.6 and G2HC try to prove its their right.
Back on city roads, they overtake as if they bought the road. Once in front of my eyes when a traffic cop stopped such VIP with his escort they broke the signal. I was observing this and did the same thing. After I dared, everybody at that broke signal. Traffic jam was outcome and indirectly I made his journey slow.
But this is one off. Usually traffic cops give way to these people. But on the same route, I have seen the army gypsys and Jeeps stop at signal. This is good.

There are few solution if civilians unite. Whenever some authority or any government servent tries to misbehave when he is not serving us, we all must unitedly make things difficult for them. This way they will slowly and hopefully understand that we too have a right to resources.

[Lalvaz]

Rules are rules. Should be uniform for everyone in the normal course. Of course if there is an emergency the uniform gets right of way.

Hope and believe that sooner or later, the Defence Forces, the police, and the judiciary all start respecting the rules.

BTW, that reminds me that its not just the defence, police and politicians, its also the legal eagles who flout rules. Lawyers, judges, press folks all seem to think that they are above the law. Which is simply not done.

[AirWind]

The worst offenders are the politicians, followed by the government servants. I havent seen a traffic violdation by defence personnel.

Happened to me last week in Coimbatore, i was driving sedatly and suddenly from nowhere appears a convoy (~10 vehicles) of a local minister almost managing to squeeze me into the divider. The convoy must been zipping zig zag all around the road at ~80KMPH in a busy road at peak hour 6PM. When will these morons realize that this mess was all created by them? If at all had they done their jobs properly (planned and executed) these wouldnt be required at all...

IMO, the VIP treatment should all end, the politicians or goverment staff should be at par a normal citizen, they should be aware of the pains of living a regular life. How can one fullfill being a civil or government servant if he/she doesnt know commom man's pain???

enough said - God "Save India"

[Raj'sGlory]

Originally Posted by akash_m

With utmost respect to the defence personnel for offering the best of them to our nation and to our T-BHP members having defence background, I have a slight doubt wether these people are exempted from certain rules/ regulations on the road or they take it as a matter of right, always. Here are some examples I come across almost daily:

1. I have never seen any Major, Captin, Colonel etc wearing seat belts in their Gypsy irrespective if they are driving or are co passengers.
2. Defence Ambys/ Gypsys can always be seen parked on the 'main road' leading to traffic snarls.
3. These people (execpt few) never pay toll tax at Noida toll bridge. I am clear that they are not exempted from the same as I have seen them fighting with poll booth attendents for letting them pass free.
4. They always cross the BRT corridor (Delhi) using the 'Bus Lane'.
5. Offen seen them jumping red lights.
6. Army trucks always emit thick black smoke. No PUC certificate for them..?
7. A 'One way' road is always a 'Two way' road for them.

...and many more. The same or even worse goes with police vehicles. The best part is that no traffic cop dares to challan them. Just one query - are their certain relaxation of traffic rules for them or are they so very special to be treated different??

Hi Akash, You are well justifed and partly true. If I may clrify a few points.

1. About seatbelts: Well with most of the vehicles being 4-6 years old (govt apathy) there actually are no seatbelts. Moreover our training for quick exits in operational areas sort of sticks in the mind. Lemm'e assure that no army officer rides without a heltmet on a two wheeler because that too has been 'ingrained' into our heads.

2. Point Given. No contest.

3. As per Indian Toll law along with the National Highway Authority of India all Defence personnel whether on duty or not are exempted from Toll Tax. However the personnel manning these boths are unaware.

4. Point Given . NO contest.

5. I've never seen any Army Vehicle daring to jump a red light unless its an emergency. And if you do notice please note the vh number and pass it to the MPs. Action is generally swift and painful.

6. Those trucks are actually the older 3 Ton Shaktimans. They are not being phased out as they have not covered the required mileage (1 L kms) even though some of then are 20 yrs old. Again govt apathy. The new Stallions and 2 Tons are quite PUC concious.

7. Point taken. Again pass the veh no to MPs and punitive action will be taken.