13th January 2009, 23:01 | #526 | |
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As far as Verna is concerned, it mainly sells because its Diesel. However it hasnt really set the sales chart ticking. The Accent during its day was much more popular in both Petrol and Diesel than Verna. Verna petrol is a dud, and diesel sells in ok numbers as MUL with SX4 or Honda City dont have a diesel in their lineup yet. With Linea launch and possibly SX4 diesel in the future, you would probably see even more dwindling sales for Verna. | |
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13th January 2009, 23:36 | #527 |
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I guess the Splash will be positioned between the Swift and the A-Star. And MUL might as well launch the ZDi to take on the i20 diesel, if at all its going to be launched in the next 4-5 months. |
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14th January 2009, 03:25 | #528 | ||||||
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Let's see what we get extra in i20Asta over Swift VXi for the price difference of 1.5l + Usable boot (almost 300l) + Great interior space - much more legroom @ back + shoulder room + ABS/EBD (don't know if price includes it since there is a VXi with ABS option) + 2x Front Airbags + 5xdoor remote lock vs 4xdoor central lock + Audio controls on steering + Climate Control over Manual aircon + Rear AC ducts + Tilt and Telescopic steering wheel + 5-seat seatbelt warning vs driver seatbelt warning + 3-point seat belt for rear middle passenger + 60:40 split folding rear seat + Cooled Glove box + Rear parcel tray + 4 speakers + 2 front tweeters + 2DIN CD+MP3 music system with Aux and USB inputs + Electrical adjustable and retractable ORVMs + Rear wiper and defogger + Illuminated Power window switches with 1 touch down for driver + Height adjustable driver seat + 185/65 R14 on 14" alloys vs 165/80 R14 on steel rims + Electronic multi-display meter + Body colored ORVMS, door handles, + Fit/finish and build in a different league to Maruti cheap plastics/dull interior - Headlamp levelling - 78bhp vs 85bhp, 11.4kgm vs 11.5kgm (though peak for swift at higher rpm) IMO, its totally not comparable to take i20Asta vs Swift VXi - VXi is comparable roughly to Magna and that is how Hyundai sees it. If someone thinks otherwise, they are welcome to that view, but I can't share it. Quote:
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Ideally, i20 Asta positioned @ 30-35k lesser ex-showroom would hit the sweet spot. For larger engines, I guess Hyundai will have to reduce margins on the car for petrol to compensate some amount of excise aspect. For the diesel, they have a 1.4CRDI (77 or 89bhp, 220Nm) in Europe, so diesel premium of 70-80k will be charged based on current Getz CRDi pricing ... I do agree though that unlike developed markets like US, where Hyundai discounts its cars compared to Jap competition, they don't seem to follow the same yardstick in India :-( Neither are the warranty terms as flattering. To that extent, they seem to think India will bear with this! OTOH, Hyundai is a premium offering compared to what Suzuki can dish out anywhere else in the globe and also has higher quality ratings. Quote:
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True, but so did the sales of every competitor in that segment (unless it was too small to be useful for trends). There was general decline in car sales over months in that category, and the Civic started its innings with unrealistic high numbers. Till Altis was launched, it still sold more than any of the competition to the last month. Last edited by lancer_rit : 14th January 2009 at 03:34. | ||||||
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14th January 2009, 09:35 | #529 | ||||||||
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Swift is 1000 kg kerb weight for Vxi, Hyundai i20 is 1066 kg meaning even lesser power to weight ratio. Swift develops max torque at 4500 rpm versus 4000 rpm for i20. As far as more leg room is concerned, its debatable as I found the rear leg room cramped, but boot space is a definite USP. However the price of i20 Asta, Ford Fiesta ZX becomes an interesting proposition, which has a bigger boot, more power, more space, at the compromise of safety features of course. Quote:
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14th January 2009, 10:22 | #530 | ||||||
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If you have ever sat in a swift, i20 is spacious - even i10 can compete with Swift at the rear. The poor rear window shape and fat C pillar make Swift a claustrophobic car in the rear. I did miss out on listing the weight disadvantage of the i20 to Swift, thanks for pointing out Quote:
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I fully agree that Hyundai should be vfm in India, but Suzuki is baseline vfm everywhere else. And atleast, Hyundai is launching their very latest models without noticeable delays in India - i10, i20. This is a trend which hopefully gets other manufacturers to also do the same. Quote:
In the context of an Indian hatch, city speed limits are 50 and 60kmph if not lower, and if traffic permits. So, for the regular car buyer, what good is 120bhp in stop-go traffic of Bangalore, esp if it comes with a lag ? What he needs is low-end torque and driveability. The reduction is also due to Cenvat cut, and almost every car manufacturer has reduced. If one is in BLR through, the Civic E has become good value for money. Since the ex-showroom price has dipped under 10l, you can save about 2% in road tax :-) The good thing is effective competition moderates premiums being charged. Last edited by lancer_rit : 14th January 2009 at 10:26. | ||||||
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14th January 2009, 10:59 | #531 | |||||||
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If you have ever sat in a swift, i20 is spacious - even i10 can compete with Swift at the rear. The poor rear window shape and fat C pillar make Swift a claustrophobic car in the rear. i10 has cramped shoulder room, even the drivers seat is cramped compared to Swift! Quote:
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14th January 2009, 11:00 | #532 | |
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Price difference in Mumbai: (Asta-ZXI) Rs. 62,100. Not as skewed as you're making it out to be. And is it a rule to compare mid-variant to mid-variant?? | |
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14th January 2009, 13:05 | #533 | |||||
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Gearing ratios and torque curves make all the difference esp in city driveability. You seem to trivialize technical aspects related to performance (which itself means so many different things like 0-60, 0-100, 20-80 3rd gear, 40-100 4th gear) - so I guess I am not the one joking here ;-) Quote:
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And once again, please read carefully before making strange conclusions. My post was specific to a series of long drives on expressways and alpine roads in the Passat 1.6. And I tried to explain that the car felt premium and despite its 'under-speced engine' and peformed creditably for high speed motoring (wherein, i refer to high average speed over the whole trip as in 200km drive in 2hours). Infact, I feared it would be sluggish and make overtaking a chore. But it wasn't, and it was very comfortable, and 8 continuous days of driving , hiking, touring the sights etc still left me in pretty decent shape - I referred to you not getting 'this experience'. So, I concluded one can make very quick trips over long distances in the Passat 1.6 (where gaining a few seconds to 150kmph does not matter as much because one is driving for hours) [/quote] I say good for consumers :-) Honda had it too good for a long time though I admire most of their cars. They charged any premium they could, now wi.th better competition and the downturn, they will be pushed to more reason Last edited by lancer_rit : 14th January 2009 at 13:14. | |||||
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14th January 2009, 13:39 | #534 | |
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@lancer_rit: While your posts make perfect sense to a lot of us, there is no end to this argument... Sadly, every new non-Maruti launch is the feeding ground for bashers. | |
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14th January 2009, 14:15 | #535 | |
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Now I dont know about the drag (its actuall funny that we are discussing this for a sub 6 lakh rupee hatch ), aerodynamics, gearing ratios of i20, and how they compare with Swift. Unless you have concrete proof that they make i20 faster/responsive than Swift, I would still say 7% more weight + 9 bhp less on top does make the car sluggish and underpowered imo. Lets just leave this here as we can go on and on... | |
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14th January 2009, 15:29 | #536 |
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| @ aseem and lancer_rit, You both can test drive i20 and see other than speculating on tech specs. I don't think it is fair to compare i20 with Fusion. Fusion is more of hatch + MPV hybrid and interiors are not upto competition. And I doubt Swift Vxi will be affected by i20 at all. Hyundai should have brought King Khan for i20 ads. |
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14th January 2009, 15:46 | #537 |
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7% more weight or -9 bhp in maximum power doesn't matter much for the car buying public. If i20 can bring that premium feeling above its price, the normal car buyers are likely to overlook that -9 bhp engine or 7 % weight. Nobody is going to buy i20 to go race with Swift. May be i20 climb a slope 5 km/hr less than Swift but who cares. And those who care about engine more than anything else there is always the Palio 1.6 . |
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14th January 2009, 15:54 | #538 | |
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But just to bolster what I said about feeling short-changed: the alarm was 5000 alright, original Honda fogs were 15k and Alpine CD player comparable to the tape deck in the car was 13k. The difference was pushing 20k - all of 2.6% of the cost of the car! Now you'll say why those accessories and not cheaper ones. Because I wanted original and because my Esteem (the car I was upgrading from) came with fogs and alarm. It doesn't matter whether it was 1-2-3% of the cost. I had to spend extra to get those things when I was already spending 7.2l lakhs and I didn't like the feeling. And feelings are subjective. Rational arguments don't work. I understand all about subtle differences but here is my point: the lack of features made me "feel" the car was over-priced. Whether that carries weight in a rational argument or not three years hence, doesn't matter. I carry that "feeling" to this day. | |
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14th January 2009, 16:04 | #539 | |
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Drag, wind tunnel and chassis - additional factors you point out. i20 is heavier and it has a smaller engine, lower bhp and mildly lower peak torque - no disputing that. For my part, I have only talked about gearing and torque curve which can aid a vehicle with lower 'peak' bhp/torque to be more driveable in the city than another. And I have not claimed anywhere that i20 is faster, peppier than Swift - I am, frankly, less interested in whether it is or not ? I am interested in whether it is driveable and has good city motoring characteristics without lag - if not, then i20 will suffer and not sell much - even if price is lowered somewhat ... | |
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14th January 2009, 16:28 | #540 | |
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Last edited by SkyWalker : 14th January 2009 at 16:31. | |
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