Attention Scorpio Owners!!!

shatrughna · 19th August 2009, 16:15

Thats a matter of concern. But there must be some add ons in terms of physical and electronic deterrents/ physical locks , enablers that would present a formidable barrier to unauthorised access and further detection in case of loss like gps system and gsm based (SMS) immobiliser, info and tracking system. What should be the optimum mix of technology, hardware , simplistic , financially viable and of course bang for the buck system cocktail on vehicles with RFID based immobilisers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takumi-san

Cant find the thread that you are looking for, but I am told that these new keys (iCAT system) , RFID based can be duplicated. The person was asking for 2000-3000 rupees but according to him, it CAN be done without need of the codes from the company. If true, then this means this system is no better.

Just ask your local neighbourhood key man that you lost the car keys (RFID based) - and if he can make a spare which will let you start the engine. Since Maruti has gotten this technology, these guys seem to have upgraded themselves too.

Wolfheart · 19th August 2009, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatrughna

Our ingenuous and dare devil thieves and oh so competent police dept. also deserve some credit and on top of it -a thriving resale market. Some one added another logic to it that the elections are near and such vehicles are put to much better use during these periods.

On a yahoogroup someone asked me this question that when did I take it for the last service ? I was baffled with another theory doing the rounds is that there was some code which was supposed to be changed by the owner . Modus operandi is that some insider at the workshop tracks vehicles which have the default security code 0000 and passes on the information ( they have the addresses in the database) and the data pattern of the theft within a specific period of servicing- does add some credential to this theory. Hope I am not paranoid and start distrusting everyone but when you are horrifyingly shocked - you dont rule out any possibility. Incidentally, I lost my vehicle within a fortnight after servicing.

God ! Why do we get so much knowledge only when its of little use. No wonder they say experience is a comb which you get after you are bald.

.

Sorry to hear about the theft dude. I understand how you must be feeling, a frined of mine also had his Slx stolen last year.

But hey if you enjoy the Scorp then by all means go for another one, perhaps the new refreshed one!! Just make sure to secure it with everything available. Dont let some damn thieves and incompetent cops make you drive something you dont like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raj_5004

now thats really concerning. this should be reported to some top officials in mahindra. but i dont think it will do any help. guess i did a good thing by changing the default code & would request all scorpio owners with pre-refresh models to do the same ASAP.

Raj,
I just got my Scorp serviced and am getting paranoid now!! Is there a way to change the code myself??

raj_5004 · 19th August 2009, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfheart

Raj,
I just got my Scorp serviced and am getting paranoid now!! Is there a way to change the code myself??

of course you can buddy. i assume you dont have the security manual with you. so here is the scanned copy-

have a look at pg. 7 to change the code & save these pics. they can be useful.

Wolfheart · 19th August 2009, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by raj_5004

of course you can buddy. i assume you dont have the security manual with you. so here is the scanned copy-

have a look at pg. 7 to change the code & save these pics. they can be useful.

Raj, you're a fountain of knowledge. Thanks a lot buddy!

shatrughna · 20th August 2009, 08:19

Rightly said wolfheart - raj has a good database of details. In my case - its said that knowledge/ experience is a comb which you get when you are bald. Nevertheless, may be I go for a transplant! and good part is that I can choose my style.

raj_5004 · 20th August 2009, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfheart

Raj, you're a fountain of knowledge. Thanks a lot buddy!

you are most welcome buddy.

thanks for the compliment.

vijaythacker · 20th August 2009, 13:41

Raj, appreciate your commendable knowledge you share here with fellow members buddy but just a note that is this safe to share this vital information on public forum, just a thought.

raj_5004 · 20th August 2009, 21:03

i also had my initial apprehensions about this buddy.
but this procedure has been discussed here in T-BHP before, on a different thread. this is the reason i thought its okay if i re-post it.
i also think that this code can only be personalised once. i mean, the default code can be changed only once. even if there is a facility to change it again & again, i think the system would require the user to enter the initial set password & only then allow to change the password. though, i am not sure about this.

by the way, do you or anybody else think that this should be removed? if yes, i can request the Mods to do so.

shatrughna · 21st August 2009, 09:03

IMHO its okay to have it posted here and that there is nothing wrong or secret about the information displayed here as it is supposed to be available in public domain as long as it doenst hurt the conutry's defences or economy. I am sure many others who may have the knowledge and need to change their passcodes but would have been complacent as I had been, may have done so or will do so at the first given opportunity after reading it. Re-iteration of action points results in better compliance sometime and reinforces safe practices.
@Vijay - it is my personal opinion with due respect to your opinion as well.

vijaythacker · 21st August 2009, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatrughna

IMHO its okay to have it posted here and that there is nothing wrong or secret about the information displayed here as it is supposed to be available in public domain as long as it doenst hurt the conutry's defences or economy. I am sure many others who may have the knowledge and need to change their passcodes but would have been complacent as I had been, may have done so or will do so at the first given opportunity after reading it. Re-iteration of action points results in better compliance sometime and reinforces safe practices.
@Vijay - it is my personal opinion with due respect to your opinion as well.

absolutely shatrughna, nothing personal but wasent sure was that on the safer side to share this information, thats it.

sdp1975 · 25th September 2009, 11:50

The message in this forum :

Yahoo! Groups

seems to suggest that the Scorpio immobilizer, unlike the one on the Xylo, is not RFID based.

shatrughna · 25th September 2009, 14:22

whatsnew

please, visit this link and put your cursor on digital immobiliser. It will give the info about the encrypted key recognition system- ECU will reject the key if a duplicate key is used to start the car.
I would like to believe that its RFID based and hi -tech ( even at the cost of it being a wishful thinking).

More knowledgeable ones- where are you - Raj, Anupji and the gang- please, throw some light.

sdp1975 · 25th September 2009, 16:58

This is what I've gathered from googling and on other posts on this forum :

The Scorpio "Refresh" was launched in March '09. This has the digital immobilizer as a "new" feature(above post by @shatrughna), which was not present in the older MHawk. See post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1092615

So, would it be correct to say that the "Refreshed" Scorpio is RFID based while the previous one was not ? Also, if the new one is RFID based, there should not be any need of resetting the Immo code from the factory default ( as referred to in other posts ) in the new Scorpio - correct ?

Any owners of the refreshed Scorp - does the key come along with any embbeded chip/fob - as all RFID based oned should ?

sdp1975 · 25th September 2009, 17:57

Yep , looks like the "Refresh" has RFID, details are on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...pio-lx-13.html

and http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1322829

sdp1975 · 2nd October 2009, 11:03

As per M&M top brass the Refreshed Scorpio is very secure. Here is a response to my e-mail query from Dr. Pawan Goenka and his team from M&M. Relevant portions of the mail follows:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX

Dear Mr. Shankar,

The Immobilizer offered in Scorpio Refresh is of high end technology.

It is based on electronic key which is recognized by the intelligent controller (through a state of art communication protocol) hence preventing the un-authorized usage.

This Immobilizer security system was assessed and certified by a UK based agency as a very high security system of its class.

This is a very robust than the previous immobilizer system in Scorpio Vlx with mhawk.

Regards,

Srinivas

From: GOENKA PAWAN
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:36 AM
To: Shankar XXXXXXX
Cc: SRINIWAS A
Subject: RE: Question on Scorpio Immobilzer and security system

Dear Shankar,

The immobaliser in Scorpio refresh is as theft proof as the best available. I a, refering your mail to Mr. Sriniwas, our expert on electrical and electronix and he will answer your technicla query.

Regards,

Pawan Goenka

From: Shankar xxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:40 PM
To: GOENKA PAWAN
Subject: Question on Scorpio Immobilzer and security system

..................

The reason I am writing this mail is that as a prospective customer of the Scorpio, I am concerned , as are some others , of the fact that the Scorpio is one of the most stolen vehicles. Please refer to the following posts on the internet :

1) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-cracked.html

2) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...io-owners.html

Does the Scorpio "refresh" launched in March this year address this concern ? I noted on whatsnew that "the ECU will reject the key if a duplicate key is used to start the car."

Is the new "Refresh" immobilizer RFID based, and therefore more secure than the previous one ?

I would appreciate it if you or your technical team can answer on this.

...................

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX

So this should be good news for prospective Scorpio buyers.

20th August 2009, 08:19	#65
shatrughna BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 894 Thanked: 68 Times	Rightly said wolfheart - raj has a good database of details. In my case - its said that knowledge/ experience is a comb which you get when you are bald. Nevertheless, may be I go for a transplant! and good part is that I can choose my style.
	() Thanks

20th August 2009, 13:41	#67
vijaythacker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ahmedabad Posts: 1,498 Thanked: 74 Times View My Garage	Raj, appreciate your commendable knowledge you share here with fellow members buddy but just a note that is this safe to share this vital information on public forum, just a thought.
	() Thanks

20th August 2009, 21:03	#68
raj_5004 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dubai/Mumbai Posts: 5,238 Thanked: 3,139 Times	i also had my initial apprehensions about this buddy. but this procedure has been discussed here in T-BHP before, on a different thread. this is the reason i thought its okay if i re-post it. i also think that this code can only be personalised once. i mean, the default code can be changed only once. even if there is a facility to change it again & again, i think the system would require the user to enter the initial set password & only then allow to change the password. though, i am not sure about this. by the way, do you or anybody else think that this should be removed? if yes, i can request the Mods to do so. Last edited by raj_5004 : 20th August 2009 at 21:06.
	() Thanks

21st August 2009, 09:03	#69
shatrughna BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 894 Thanked: 68 Times	IMHO its okay to have it posted here and that there is nothing wrong or secret about the information displayed here as it is supposed to be available in public domain as long as it doenst hurt the conutry's defences or economy. I am sure many others who may have the knowledge and need to change their passcodes but would have been complacent as I had been, may have done so or will do so at the first given opportunity after reading it. Re-iteration of action points results in better compliance sometime and reinforces safe practices. @Vijay - it is my personal opinion with due respect to your opinion as well.
	() Thanks

25th September 2009, 11:50	#71
sdp1975 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,700 Thanked: 1,273 Times View My Garage	The message in this forum : Yahoo! Groups seems to suggest that the Scorpio immobilizer, unlike the one on the Xylo, is not RFID based.
	() Thanks

25th September 2009, 14:22	#72
shatrughna BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 894 Thanked: 68 Times	whatsnew please, visit this link and put your cursor on digital immobiliser. It will give the info about the encrypted key recognition system- ECU will reject the key if a duplicate key is used to start the car. I would like to believe that its RFID based and hi -tech ( even at the cost of it being a wishful thinking). More knowledgeable ones- where are you - Raj, Anupji and the gang- please, throw some light.
	() Thanks

25th September 2009, 16:58	#73
sdp1975 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,700 Thanked: 1,273 Times View My Garage	This is what I've gathered from googling and on other posts on this forum : The Scorpio "Refresh" was launched in March '09. This has the digital immobilizer as a "new" feature(above post by @shatrughna), which was not present in the older MHawk. See post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1092615 So, would it be correct to say that the "Refreshed" Scorpio is RFID based while the previous one was not ? Also, if the new one is RFID based, there should not be any need of resetting the Immo code from the factory default ( as referred to in other posts ) in the new Scorpio - correct ? Any owners of the refreshed Scorp - does the key come along with any embbeded chip/fob - as all RFID based oned should ? Last edited by sdp1975 : 25th September 2009 at 17:02.
	() Thanks

25th September 2009, 17:57	#74
sdp1975 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,700 Thanked: 1,273 Times View My Garage	Yep , looks like the "Refresh" has RFID, details are on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...pio-lx-13.html and http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1322829 Last edited by sdp1975 : 25th September 2009 at 18:01.
	() Thanks

2nd October 2009, 11:03	#75
sdp1975 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,700 Thanked: 1,273 Times View My Garage	As per M&M top brass the Refreshed Scorpio is very secure. Here is a response to my e-mail query from Dr. Pawan Goenka and his team from M&M. Relevant portions of the mail follows: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX Dear Mr. Shankar, The Immobilizer offered in Scorpio Refresh is of high end technology. It is based on electronic key which is recognized by the intelligent controller (through a state of art communication protocol) hence preventing the un-authorized usage. This Immobilizer security system was assessed and certified by a UK based agency as a very high security system of its class. This is a very robust than the previous immobilizer system in Scorpio Vlx with mhawk. Regards, Srinivas From: GOENKA PAWAN Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:36 AM To: Shankar XXXXXXX Cc: SRINIWAS A Subject: RE: Question on Scorpio Immobilzer and security system Dear Shankar, The immobaliser in Scorpio refresh is as theft proof as the best available. I a, refering your mail to Mr. Sriniwas, our expert on electrical and electronix and he will answer your technicla query. Regards, Pawan Goenka From: Shankar xxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:40 PM To: GOENKA PAWAN Subject: Question on Scorpio Immobilzer and security system .................. The reason I am writing this mail is that as a prospective customer of the Scorpio, I am concerned , as are some others , of the fact that the Scorpio is one of the most stolen vehicles. Please refer to the following posts on the internet : 1) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-cracked.html 2) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...io-owners.html Does the Scorpio "refresh" launched in March this year address this concern ? I noted on whatsnew that "the ECU will reject the key if a duplicate key is used to start the car." Is the new "Refresh" immobilizer RFID based, and therefore more secure than the previous one ? I would appreciate it if you or your technical team can answer on this. ................... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX So this should be good news for prospective Scorpio buyers.
	() Thanks