[architect]

Hyundai makes some very good cars, and I think their quality control is higher than Maruti. They sometimes price their cars oddly. That's one of the reasons why I own a Palio MJD instead of a Getz D today. I knew I was more likely to suffer from a shoddy A.S.S. with the Palio, but I didn't have an extra lakh of rupees to counter this situation.

Regarding perceptions, we seem to formulate them not on a scale of proportion, but on individual occurence. We don't know enough, don't research enough, or we happen to run into extremely persuasive people who help us form our perceptions.

For example, with no personal feeling towards the original posters, here are two sentences from this very thread:

4 years and six months later, touch wood, my Santro has never given me a single spot of bother. Not a single electrical/mechanical failure guys in 52,000 km of running!

When I read here of people's VW/Skoda/Ford/Fiat/GM giving trouble in first few thousand of kms, I just breathe heavy and give a pleased eye to my car.

A person reading the two statements will tend to assume that all the brands listed in the latter will have a high incidence of problems, but buying a Hyundai is definitely a very trouble free experience.

He might not go to the extent of figuring out the ratio of satisfied vs dis-satisfied owners for all these brands. Further, he might not consider that a lot of owners might have an expectation that will be at variance with the what the vehicle is likely to deliver. Even worse, he might not consider that some of the members could be abusing their car outright before it becomes the proverbial "white elephant"

This is how perceptions are formed.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

Their cars are better than most Marutis. Hyundai is still second to Maruti in sales only because, for a lot of Indians, buying a car is akin to buying a Maruti.

I doubt the above statement. Baleno was always better than Accent and upto the mark with petrol Verna. Swift has more character than Getz which first of all was a bit late as compared to its international launch. Next in line is the petrol motors. Hyundai Alpha engine are not upto the mark as compared to Suzuki.
Currently look at K-series and Kappa. Suzuki is certainly better. This helps a lot in small car segment. I am not sure of future, but currently it does matter in the market.
I think that Swift when launched was a good success because of its good engine. The engine did play a role. This is again MHO.

Next generation cars and they have messed up with design right from Verna to sonata.
Maruti knows market and delivers accordingly and hence it sells. Also the image for reliability is not built in a day. Its certainly industry best reliability from what I have seen. Moreover their A.S & S. is also good.
Maruti was the first manufacturer to have won customer satisfaction award when market leader. No other car maker had achieved Market leader + Customer satisfaction award before Maruti.
Yes, the awards are not much we can give into, but still its an achievement.

Originally Posted by greenh0rn

Hehe, just like Honda, Suzuki is Japanese sh*t, and Fiat is Italian poop, right?

Four years ago when I had to buy my first car, I had the option of a born twice-again Zen and Santro. Zen ruled my heart,...

Depends on a lot of other parameters. We have two Suzuki at home M800 which has done 1 lakh kms+ and Baleno with around 37K kms. No issues so far. M800 after being converted to CNG gave overheating issues which was sorted with water pump replacement.

Overall, Hyundai is a result of S.Korea finding that automotive business can be very good for profits. IIRC, Hyundai had lot of support from S.korea government.

Here we have people who are happy with Fiat, Honda, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, Tata...
A lot depends upon location also.

But Hyundai has earned those perceptions.
I would like to end this post with the opinion that Hyundai either messes up with petrol motors or design or pricing.


PS : The comparison I have made are based on my personal driving style, habits and parameters.

[1-Testosterone]

Well all I can say is Hyundai is learning from their past mistakes....and learning fast. Genesis is the ultimate testimony to that.
Korean engineering is world class and they need not prove it. India is a very dicey market and quality does not always shines. Luck and advertising play a big role. They need to figure out their marketing if they want to make their name in luxury segment. I think they have it in them to succeed. Things change with time and Hyundai is bringing world class models in India year after year (unlike Toyota and Mitsubishi). It's a matter of couple of years they get most of the things right and bring some heat.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by greenh0rn

Hehe, just like Honda, Suzuki is Japanese sh*t, and Fiat is Italian poop, right?

but Suzuki is Indo-Jap Sh*t and we own a lot of them Indo-Jap craps.

[SS-Traveller]

Oh... great! A royal war going on over here about Hyundai! As a long-term Hyundai owner, my two paise on this is: I love their cars, but lately I detest the way they treat their customers.

Read http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1455475-post39.html

and given below is the text of a couple of emails I sent to Hyundai's cyber audit people over a very minor issue I had been following up off and on. It's self-explanatory.

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:32 PM
To: 7735474@hmil.net; madhanraj@hmil.net
Subject: Fw: complaint ID I-19608924

Dear Sir:

I have been a customer of Hyundai since December 2004, and have also been instrumental in referral sales of Hyundai automobiles on at least 5 occasions among friends and relatives.

I had referred a customer to purchase an i10 Kappa Asta from HMP Delhi in December 2008, when I was promised a free gift of a watch and a free service coupon for my own car. This was as per the advertisements and banners displayed at the showroom. The details of my referral and my car details were logged into the computer of the sales executive through whom the purchase was made, and it was promised that the gifts would be delivered to me by courier.

As the trailing emails below will show, I have been following up with cr@hmil.net regarding this over the last 8 months, and am quite disgusted and humiliated with the lack of honesty and transparency by Hyundai, and the manner that I am being treated, over such a minor matter.

I am therefore writing to you as a last recourse, in the hope that you would contribute towards re-establishing my faith in Hyundai India's customer-friendliness, and continuing to retain me as a customer and referrer of Hyundai automobiles.

Sincerely yours,
SS
================================================
Dear Sir:

Thank you for the prompt response I received from HMP Delhi, after my email to you on Wednesday.What is disappointing, painful and demeaning to me is the quality of the response on the ground. Five phone calls full of apologies, promises to deliver the gifts on Thursday itself, ridiculous excuses, and finally, this afternoon, half the promise apparently fulfilled by sending across a cheap and garish wrist-watch as a gift.

The dog is barking too much, so let's throw it a bone to keep it quiet...

So HMP sends me a cheap gold-plated Sonata wrist-watch, but not the free service coupon, and a host of excuses are touted out by minor officials of the company. Among others, I received a phone call from the concerned sales executive, Pramod Yadav, with apologies and an interesting excuse:

Sir, HMP did not have the funds to send you the gift...

Am I to believe Hyundai is going bankrupt??

Sir, it is not just you, we had to organize gifts for 400 people...

This is an excuse that shakes my confidence in Hyundai to the core, and unless something radically different happens, I am immediately changing my plans regarding the purchase of an i20 Asta CRDi to replace the current Accent Viva CRDi I own (since 56 months, already driven 102,500 km). I must mention here that my car ownership experience was otherwise excellent, and I guess I must express my thanks to Hyundai here for having made a product I had derived so much pleasure from. You might enjoy reading my ownership experience here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-till-now.html

Thank you very much. It was a pleasure owning a Hyundai, but painful to deal with the company.

Please draw your own conclusions...

[inwester]

To put things in perspective, I will quote some history here. When I was a teenager I owned a Maruti Zen, I loved the car then and it was fun to drive But later I realized it was not a well built car, used cheap plastics, unreliable fuel pump, horrible suspension and shock absorbers etc .The only good thing it had was good handling and a great nippy little engine which returned good fuel mileage.

My next car was a Honda City (2nd gen?) which by the way I still own. I became a genuine Honda fan (which I still am) and loved everything Honda made. This was a brilliant car then, but looking back now, it was very expensive for the price we paid. It had gem of an engine, amazing handling and I loved driving it. Now, it had small donut tires, cheapest plastics possible, came with no features whatsoever, even sheet metal used was not up to the mark. It required a lot of maintenance after 5 years and 100,000 kms, and I probably have spent at least half the price of car on maintenance. The car had minor problems from the early stages, common ones including power window motor getting bust, wearing of shock absorbers, rattling of dashboard etc. Since then I've owned other cars including Chevrolet Optra (still own, great ride, worst engine ever), Mazda Protege, Ford Mustang, Mazda 6, Dodge Neon, Chrysler PT Cruiser and the one currently I drive, a Hyundai Sonata V6. (I've not mentioned other cars my family owns which pretty much includes all the best selling cars in India now, in every segment).

I never thought I would own or drive a Hyundai ever, and I got a lot of criticism and mockery from friends/family when I bought a Sonata. It was an impulsive decision since I was fed up fixing the Mazda 6 which had eaten some $15000 in maintenance. Not to mention that Ford Mustang convertible I had was the worst car I ever owned. 2 years later, 30,000 miles after the car does what it's supposed to do. It has adequate power in the 3.3 liter engine around 235 horses and gives me 28-30 mpg on highways (up to 13 per liter) and has decent acceleration and great ride quality for my daily use. The engine is the smoothest I've driven (better than the 6 cylinder in-line they have in old 530xi) and the car is very stable and feels safe at highway speeds (80-100 mph). It has air bags all around, traction control, esp, abs, sunroof, premium sound (believe me, better than many other luxury cars out there), space, automatic lights and speed sensitive wipers, great comfortable seats, 17" Michelin performance tires etc. The handling department is nothing to write home about and car doesn't corner well nor does it drive like a race car. But the point is, this car was the cheapest in the segment, gave the best warranty in the class, and probably is the most improved car in the segment (comparing past versions).

I don't know what car will I buy next but if I were to buy one in the west, I would definitely consider the new Hyundai Genesis sports coupe, and in India the all new 2011 Hyundai Sonata. Honda and Toyota were cheap, small unreliable cars when they came to the west decades back. Samsung was a brand who made cheap TVs to buy when they came out, but now its expensive than a Sony and definitely better. Watch out for this Korean car maker!

[Shan2nu]

Frankly, i dont think there are many Hyundai haters here (especially after they launched the crdi/vgt variants).

Choosing another car over a Hyundai doesn't make anyone a hater, its just that they prefer the other car more.

Shan2nu

[greenh0rn]

Originally Posted by architect

For example, with no personal feeling towards the original posters, here are two sentences from this very thread:

A person reading the two statements will tend to assume that all the brands listed in the latter will have a high incidence of problems, but buying a Hyundai is definitely a very trouble free experience.

He might not go to the extent of figuring out the ratio of satisfied vs dis-satisfied owners for all these brands. Further, he might not consider that a lot of owners might have an expectation that will be at variance with the what the vehicle is likely to deliver.
Even worse, he might not consider that some of the members could be abusing their car outright before it becomes the proverbial "white elephant". This is how perceptions are formed.

As the original poster, I take it as my right to wash myself of the accusations. If anyone reads my post correctly again and within its context, all I am stating is my personal experience of owning a Hyundai. And when I refer to "all these brands", I refer to posts made on T-BHP by the "respective owners" of these brands.

If my statement is needlessly twisted by anyone to mean that I believe "all these brands" have a higher incidence of problems, and that Hyundai cars never give trouble, then God help that person.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

When it comes to cars like Elantra and its ilk, they are way out of reach for consideration of the middle class / salaried class consisting of 80% of car buyers in India.

True! But one must admit that if you have a budget of around 6L, it would make the Elantra an excellent buy as a used vehicle.

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

The original post appeared more of a PR excercise for Hyundai than anything else.

I find that quite insulting actually. I don't get paid by Hyundai for doing good PR for them. Nor do I actually own a Hyundai. I have just had the opportunity to live with these two cars (belonging to TBHPians) in particular over a period of time and I have noticed how people rubbish them off ONLY because they are a Hyundai. If the Elantra was sold by Honda and the Getz by Fiat I am sure everyone here would be recommending these cars on every what car thread. Then all these perceptions of ridiculous pricing wouldn't have surfaced, instead we would have arguments about the lineage the cars come with, the passion with which they are built etc etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, its sad to see such good cars (mostly underrated) being phased out. More than anything, I am afraid such cars won't be see in future. Only then will people realize what its truth worth was. Just like people are now wondering why didn't they buy a OHC Vtec.

I don't vote or vouch for a single brand. I am a fan of Maruti, Honda, Tata, Fiat cars alike.

Their cars are better than most Marutis.

Actually, the first gen Santro's were quicker than the zen's (I owned one) but the Santro's tall boy setup made it less favorable compared to the zen . I can vouch that the Getz D is far better than the swift (again I own one). If one were to compare the SX4 to the I20, again the I20 is leagues ahead IMO. And this coming from an ardent Suzuki fan like me whose last 3 cars have been a Zen, Baleno, Swift is quite something.

Regarding perceptions, we seem to formulate them not on a scale of proportion, but on individual occurence. We don't know enough, don't research enough, or we happen to run into extremely persuasive people who help us form our perceptions.

I agree. Which is why I find it ridiculous when people say, don't buy a X car for a reason Y, without even having driven the car.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

I would like to end this post with the opinion that Hyundai either messes up with petrol motors or design or pricing.

By the looks of it their biggest blunder has been the pricing. Mainly in reference to the I20, the Getz and the Elantra.

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Choosing another car over a Hyundai doesn't make anyone a hater, its just that they prefer the other car more.

Shan. Off lately I have been noticing some of the Hyundai threads and its shocking to find how people openly ridicule it as Korean crap and that ought to be the sole reason to stay away from such products.Those who fall for it, sadly miss out on owning some nice cars.

[aah78]

I wasn't too fond of Hyundai's products when they were first introduced in India.

Either the cars were awfully designed (Santro, Accent), or they were trying too hard to imitate other marquees (Sonata).

While I still am not fond of some of (the looks of) the Santro, the Sonata, the Accent, or the Elantra, they've improved tremendously in terms of quality and reliability.
Quality of materials now exceeds the Japanese and matches some of the Europeans.
After the Getz, they've been on an upward roll. I love the design of the new i20 - it's beautiful.
Similarly the Genesis sedan has received praise all over.

I recently drove a rental spec Kia (Hyundai's sister company) Forte and came away pleasantly surprised.

[agentsmith2]

Hyundai Elantra is the most selling 'Hyundai' car in US. Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Mods, I request a poll here. If indeed there's anti Hyundai sentiment, it'll show best in an anonymous poll. So if you go eurghh if you think of Hyundai, vote and show it. If you think they're just no worse or better than the rest, i.e. its the car that makes the difference for you, then vote and speak out too. My bet is that there'll be very few Hyundai haters compared to the total number voting. Better to see if there are skewed perceptions, biased and preconceived notions in the first place before bothering with the why.

+1
Am not sure for any skewed perceptions, biased, preconceived notions by the Indian Car market (and not select only a few individuals) for Hyundai cars in India

After all, Hyundai is the 2nd largest seller after Maruti. Means people are putting money behind it
Hyundai A.S.S. & network is also 2nd best to Maruti, if not equal
Where are preconceived notions?
If Elantra failed in the market inspite of being a good car as per threadstarter, the industry is full of such cases & case studies. Why go further - Maruti Baleno also did not succeed as per MUL expectations. So are there preconceived notions for MUL? naah

[FlyingSpur]

Never mind what's already been said. They make great workhorses, and each one of them almost flawless. Agreed, that hardly any of them can be called driver's cars, but that doesn't mean they're bad transportation. And they don't cost a limb to maintain.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

After all, Hyundai is the 2nd largest seller after Maruti. Means people are putting money behind it

But do we see an equal participation from members here while trying to advice a new car to look at a Hyundai? I guess not.

If Elantra failed in the market inspite of being a good car as per threadstarter, the industry is full of such cases & case studies.

Not just the Elantra, even the Getz suffered.

Maruti Baleno also did not succeed as per MUL expectations. So are there preconceived notions for MUL? naah

I would tend to disagree. After the price reduction, Baleno did some brilliant numbers and MUL did consider it as a success as its end neared. This come from a reliable sourse, namely the MD for Marketing & Sales for a very big Maruti dealer in Karnataka.

[sunil8089]

Unlike many developed markets, the priorities to success in Indian market goes in following Order.
- Price
- Customer Care & After Sales Service
- Mileage / operational expenses
- Reliability
- Comfort and Ride Quality
- Looks and Style
- Quality
- Safety
- Extra Features

Maruti understood this long back (25 years ago) and that's why they are successful today even though their products are not the best in quality or comfort. They really well priced their cars (other than Astar) and provides excellent service at an affordable cost at each nuke and corners of this country. Moreover they made available their spare parts in open markets and their service procedures are simple. Thus the brand "Maruti" gives the feeling - " Dont worry. You drive the car, We are here for you for all your needs". This backbone gives the real peace of mind to the customers(especially the middle class) who spend their hard earned money, relively in a long term (5 - 10 years).

Hyundai cars are much reliable and have better quality than Maruti cars. Also most of the Hyundai cars are competitively priced and they provide reasonably good *** service. The areas where they lags are:
- High maintenance cost after three years
- mileage
- Spare parts cost
- Build quality
- ride quality

The secret is : The positives of Matuti satisfy the "Heart" - (Peace of mind, passions) of an average Indian man , "than Head" - (Logical thinking and intelligence). But others don't realize this and they are still trying to attack the head than the heart of Indian customers.