Punto Sports (MJD) or Punto T-Jet

jkdas · 1st March 2010, 16:14

1) Why didnt Suzuki launch the 125 bhp Swift then?
2) Wont the T-Jet be very expensive for a hatch?

Well, they are gonna give us the VGT 1.3 MJD-walla Punto soon; prayers/dreams of many. Hope they also gift us the T-Jet; the best way to capture hearts of dreamers.

Edit: Euro5 VGT 1.3MJD is 95bhp IIRC. Hope we get it sometime next year.

theEnd · 1st March 2010, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

There was Audis Diesel that (black) smoked all the competitors cars in Le Mans couple of years back.

The diesels are still winning at Le Mans. For an endurance race it does appear that a diesel engine is superior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

There are many fomum members who have repeatedly mentioned how enthusiastically their Swift Diesel perform (w/o Pete-ing) vis-a-vis the petrol cars in street races.

I wonder whose grandmothers are driving those petrol cars. The Swift diesel may feel torquey, but in a straight drag the stock petrol will win against the stock diesel. Throw in some curves and the lighter petrol will move even further ahead. Check the 0-100km/h timings if you dont believe me.

The kind of people who think the diesel is quicker are the kind that upshift before 4000rpm. Thats the point where the diesel would run out of breath and the petrol actually comes alive.

jassi · 1st March 2010, 17:32

^^ thats what i meant by rev the nuts off :-)
i don't see that as a possibility on a diesel!
if fiat wants to target the sports car at the right people it has to be a turbo petrol - if they just want to sticker a lame diesel and call it sport - its their choice! hell they might even sell more cos of its decent 'average' and has oodles of torque in a small rpm band mistaken as sportiness by most - but they will have zero credibility in the minds of the sportcar enthusiast.
I still remember the zen estilo sports with awesome sports stickering - mockery of what we want i say!

A350XWB · 1st March 2010, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jassi

haven't read through all the posts - but its quite simple - the words diesel and sport don't really go together - diesel is economy not sport - thats the reason why i hate the fiat 500 in india. and no don't tell me about the oddball diesel sports cars or the oodles of torque and black smoke :-)

This is a myth! Just ask Gabriele Tarquini or David Brabham. In Le Mans from 2006-2009 and in WTCC 2008-2009, the diesel cars have left their petrol counterparts to bite dust!

jassi · 1st March 2010, 19:34

^^ yes its a myth as far as the lemans and wtcc go - but how many well tuned sports diesel daily driven cars are there in the market? How many manufacturers give sports diesel cars? lambos, ferraris, evos, minis??
Fiat is certainly not paving the way and starting a wave of breakthrough diesel sports cars - they're just trying to make the most of our confused junta who like the national diesel engine but watch F1 and want to 'feel' sporty - a nice sticker job and some factory fitted alloys is all they want.
Sure the diesels maybe doing well on some endurance events, but the technology is still not mainstream to cater the sportscar mindset. Mainstream fun cars which give you power across the rev band are petrol and turbos make them move even better - try driving a tc'd petro-swift and you will know what I am trying to say here.

A350XWB · 1st March 2010, 20:31

^^^I agree that Le Mans is endurance racing, but WTCC? It's a pure form of track racing. And after driving different diesel powered cars in Germany, I really started liking the diesels much more (believe me!). In India, the situation is different, I agree. Here, we think diesel = economy, period! And see the number of manufacturers who are moving towards diesel engines and investing heavily in the technology. And no, it is not only because it's cheaper (In EU, the gasoline and diesel prices are much closer). The above mentioned forms of racing just proves that it does not take a petrol engine to win a race. That was the point I wanted to make.

In India, as (diesel = economy) the mentality is prevailing, I don't think any manufacturer for that matter will bring in performance diesels for a long time to come. Some exceptions are the Verna VGT and the Chevrolet Cruze.

jassi · 1st March 2010, 20:37

^^ now you're talking my language :-) i know and agree with you that there are good diesels out there - its the sport punto in india we are discussing here and if that is launched with mjd we all know there is no sporty reason behind it - its just a marketing gimmick to sell some more :-)

A350XWB · 1st March 2010, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jassi

now you're talking my language

Yes, that's why I wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by A350XWB

In India, the situation is different, I agree.

I totally agree with the case in India. I was just commenting on performance diesels. For that matter, many of the "sports" models in India are just addition of ugly stickers to an existing car

But I still feel that the Punto diesel requires a bit more power to lug around it's weight. Nothing sporty, but a bit more competitive.

ramzsys · 1st March 2010, 21:52

A punto with a turbo petrol heart is the one to go for. If it is to be a sporty diesel, then it has to be the 1.6 or even 1.9 JTD. But then there is this yawning disclaimer, "IN INDIA....."

jassi · 1st March 2010, 21:59

^^ i don't think any manufacturer (in India) of the likes of fiat, maruti, etc have the guts to launch a car which cannot get a good answer to the question 'mileage kitna hai'

They've burnt their hands before and everyone is playing it safe - yes even with so called sports variant - thats the reason why there are no 100bhp hatches anymore and thats the reason why fiat 500 in india only has a diesel heart. Whats next mini with diesel engine :-)

singh.amrit · 1st March 2010, 23:55

OT :
do we have any official representative of Fiat/maruti or any other manufacturer for that matter on Team-Bhp ? if not, then should we invite them ?

nkrishnap · 2nd March 2010, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

1) Why didnt Suzuki launch the 125 bhp Swift then?
2) Wont the T-Jet be very expensive for a hatch?

Well, they are gonna give us the VGT 1.3 MJD-walla Punto soon; prayers/dreams of many. Hope they also gift us the T-Jet; the best way to capture hearts of dreamers.

Edit: Euro5 VGT 1.3MJD is 95bhp IIRC. Hope we get it sometime next year.

+1 to your views. You echoed my thoughts. Diesel yes, but the T-jet for Punto would spoil the mileage perception for Punto petrol versions and also would be costly. May be thats the reason why FIAT is not bringing T-JET in Punto in the near future.

I bet the Euro V version will not appear in the Indian markets anytime soon.

OT: By the way when is the Euro V/bharat Stage V emission norms coming into effect

wildon · 15th March 2010, 16:48

A doubt,

Is the present Punto is Turbo Charged ?

I have seen Linea Engine spec as 1.3 MJTD 16V 90CV/66KW and the Punto Spec as 1.3 16V 75CV/55KW . Can anyone clear this up.

theEnd · 15th March 2010, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildon

A doubt,

Is the present Punto is Turbo Charged ?

I have seen Linea Engine spec as 1.3 MJTD 16V 90CV/66KW and the Punto Spec as 1.3 16V 75CV/55KW . Can anyone clear this up.

The present Punto diesel is turbocharged. Its virtually the same as the diesel found in the Swift/DZire/Indica. The so-called "national engine".

The Linea has a variable geometry turbocharger as against the fixed geometry turbo found in the Punto.

These days almost every single diesel engine has a turbocharger. What I would like to see is more turbocharged petrol engines. Like the T-Jet.

samyakmodi · 28th March 2010, 22:08

WOW!! what a thread!!

from punto sport & tjet discussions, i learnt a lot about audi & le mans too :-)

to join the discussion, I would like to point out that the punto's 90bhp variant deserves to be called as sport for the simple reason that it is supposed to have a more peppy engine than it's regular counter part. I am glad the fiat has not only made cosmetic changes, but has definitely given a better and peppier engine what the punto desperately needed. to come to think of it, most of the manufacturers have been fooling the customers by launching "sport" variants of their mundane cars by adding a spoiler, giving a whacky paint job or lots of vinyl decals to shout that it is a sports variant. while little they have done to improve on the drive of the car. some might argue that the manufacturers didn't improvise for the only reason that their original vehicles themselves were too good to drive, but then by that logic ferrari or lamborghini shouldn't ever come up with a better or faster engines EVER!!

let's not forget that most of us, though petrolheads, are still staying in the same kind of families where a car in the family is primarily a family car and then an individual's (ofcourse there are exceptions). no matter how much we want more bhp, most of us still do the math "average kya aaya" each time we go to a fuel station for a refill.
and whether we do it or not, we should still be aware about how much fossil fuel we are consuming just for fun.

so coming back to the point of punto sport and linea tjet, I feel that fiat is making the right moves this time around by understanding the actual indian buyers (not just the enthusiasts) and then taking care of the enthusiasts too.
I as an enthusiast was seriously contemplating whether to go for the punto diesel (because it looks so sexy, and is a good drive) OR to go for the swift diesel (looks good & really fun to drive). but fiat now has probably answered my prayers, by hopefully launching the fiat punto sport.
it looks amazing! should drive good (as all fiats do)! and along with all the features that are even not available in a car a bracket above this segment, they have added a cherry on the top by plonking in a peppier diesel engine!!

now if all goes well, fiat would soon be launching this car, and i expect the price to be somewhere around 7 lacs ex-showroom (as anything more, it will be like the jazz, great car--almost no buyers). and that's the price a family enthusiast would be happy to pay for the hottest hatch to have come to india.
as far as the launch dates are concerned, i expect the linea tjet to be launched atleast a couple of months before the punto sport. probably because most of the prospective petrol linea buyers are disappointed with the performance of the car. i think come august, linea tjet should be out on the roads, and by october 2010, I should be able to lay my hands on probably the first punto sport in MP.

can hardly wait though..

View Poll Results: Punto Sport (MJD) or Punto T-Jet
Punto Sport (1.3 MJD - diesel with VGT, 85bhp)	73	33.33%
Punto T-Jet (1.4 turbocharged petrol, 108bhp)	131	59.82%
I prefer (or already own) an existing variant of the Punto	15	6.85%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

1st March 2010, 16:14	#46
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,687 Thanked: 1,492 Times View My Garage	1) Why didnt Suzuki launch the 125 bhp Swift then? 2) Wont the T-Jet be very expensive for a hatch? Well, they are gonna give us the VGT 1.3 MJD-walla Punto soon; prayers/dreams of many. Hope they also gift us the T-Jet; the best way to capture hearts of dreamers. Edit: Euro5 VGT 1.3MJD is 95bhp IIRC. Hope we get it sometime next year. Last edited by jkdas : 1st March 2010 at 16:15.
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 17:32	#48
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	^^ thats what i meant by rev the nuts off :-) i don't see that as a possibility on a diesel! if fiat wants to target the sports car at the right people it has to be a turbo petrol - if they just want to sticker a lame diesel and call it sport - its their choice! hell they might even sell more cos of its decent 'average' and has oodles of torque in a small rpm band mistaken as sportiness by most - but they will have zero credibility in the minds of the sportcar enthusiast. I still remember the zen estilo sports with awesome sports stickering - mockery of what we want i say! Last edited by jassi : 1st March 2010 at 17:34.
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 19:34	#50
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	^^ yes its a myth as far as the lemans and wtcc go - but how many well tuned sports diesel daily driven cars are there in the market? How many manufacturers give sports diesel cars? lambos, ferraris, evos, minis?? Fiat is certainly not paving the way and starting a wave of breakthrough diesel sports cars - they're just trying to make the most of our confused junta who like the national diesel engine but watch F1 and want to 'feel' sporty - a nice sticker job and some factory fitted alloys is all they want. Sure the diesels maybe doing well on some endurance events, but the technology is still not mainstream to cater the sportscar mindset. Mainstream fun cars which give you power across the rev band are petrol and turbos make them move even better - try driving a tc'd petro-swift and you will know what I am trying to say here.
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 20:31	#51
A350XWB BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: KA51/KL03 Posts: 923 Thanked: 861 Times	^^^I agree that Le Mans is endurance racing, but WTCC? It's a pure form of track racing. And after driving different diesel powered cars in Germany, I really started liking the diesels much more (believe me!). In India, the situation is different, I agree. Here, we think diesel = economy, period! And see the number of manufacturers who are moving towards diesel engines and investing heavily in the technology. And no, it is not only because it's cheaper (In EU, the gasoline and diesel prices are much closer). The above mentioned forms of racing just proves that it does not take a petrol engine to win a race. That was the point I wanted to make. In India, as (diesel = economy) the mentality is prevailing, I don't think any manufacturer for that matter will bring in performance diesels for a long time to come. Some exceptions are the Verna VGT and the Chevrolet Cruze.
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 20:37	#52
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	^^ now you're talking my language :-) i know and agree with you that there are good diesels out there - its the sport punto in india we are discussing here and if that is launched with mjd we all know there is no sporty reason behind it - its just a marketing gimmick to sell some more :-)
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 21:52	#54
ramzsys Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NH209 Posts: 1,775 Thanked: 1,462 Times	A punto with a turbo petrol heart is the one to go for. If it is to be a sporty diesel, then it has to be the 1.6 or even 1.9 JTD. But then there is this yawning disclaimer, "IN INDIA....."
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 21:59	#55
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	^^ i don't think any manufacturer (in India) of the likes of fiat, maruti, etc have the guts to launch a car which cannot get a good answer to the question 'mileage kitna hai' They've burnt their hands before and everyone is playing it safe - yes even with so called sports variant - thats the reason why there are no 100bhp hatches anymore and thats the reason why fiat 500 in india only has a diesel heart. Whats next mini with diesel engine :-)
	() Thanks

1st March 2010, 23:55	#56
singh.amrit BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lucknow Posts: 106 Thanked: 0 Times	OT : do we have any official representative of Fiat/maruti or any other manufacturer for that matter on Team-Bhp ? if not, then should we invite them ?
	() Thanks

15th March 2010, 16:48	#58
wildon BANNED Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,440 Thanked: 1,235 Times View My Garage	A doubt, Is the present Punto is Turbo Charged ? I have seen Linea Engine spec as 1.3 MJTD 16V 90CV/66KW and the Punto Spec as 1.3 16V 75CV/55KW . Can anyone clear this up. Last edited by wildon : 15th March 2010 at 16:50.
	() Thanks

28th March 2010, 22:08	#60
samyakmodi BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Indore Posts: 994 Thanked: 811 Times	WOW!! what a thread!! from punto sport & tjet discussions, i learnt a lot about audi & le mans too :-) to join the discussion, I would like to point out that the punto's 90bhp variant deserves to be called as sport for the simple reason that it is supposed to have a more peppy engine than it's regular counter part. I am glad the fiat has not only made cosmetic changes, but has definitely given a better and peppier engine what the punto desperately needed. to come to think of it, most of the manufacturers have been fooling the customers by launching "sport" variants of their mundane cars by adding a spoiler, giving a whacky paint job or lots of vinyl decals to shout that it is a sports variant. while little they have done to improve on the drive of the car. some might argue that the manufacturers didn't improvise for the only reason that their original vehicles themselves were too good to drive, but then by that logic ferrari or lamborghini shouldn't ever come up with a better or faster engines EVER!! let's not forget that most of us, though petrolheads, are still staying in the same kind of families where a car in the family is primarily a family car and then an individual's (ofcourse there are exceptions). no matter how much we want more bhp, most of us still do the math "average kya aaya" each time we go to a fuel station for a refill. and whether we do it or not, we should still be aware about how much fossil fuel we are consuming just for fun. so coming back to the point of punto sport and linea tjet, I feel that fiat is making the right moves this time around by understanding the actual indian buyers (not just the enthusiasts) and then taking care of the enthusiasts too. I as an enthusiast was seriously contemplating whether to go for the punto diesel (because it looks so sexy, and is a good drive) OR to go for the swift diesel (looks good & really fun to drive). but fiat now has probably answered my prayers, by hopefully launching the fiat punto sport. it looks amazing! should drive good (as all fiats do)! and along with all the features that are even not available in a car a bracket above this segment, they have added a cherry on the top by plonking in a peppier diesel engine!! now if all goes well, fiat would soon be launching this car, and i expect the price to be somewhere around 7 lacs ex-showroom (as anything more, it will be like the jazz, great car--almost no buyers). and that's the price a family enthusiast would be happy to pay for the hottest hatch to have come to india. as far as the launch dates are concerned, i expect the linea tjet to be launched atleast a couple of months before the punto sport. probably because most of the prospective petrol linea buyers are disappointed with the performance of the car. i think come august, linea tjet should be out on the roads, and by october 2010, I should be able to lay my hands on probably the first punto sport in MP. can hardly wait though..
	() Thanks