Paddle shifts on Indian cars - will it work?

ajmat · 21st August 2006, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

From a long time I was considering getting an auto (now paddle shift) as a SECOND car for city use. Driving inside Bangalore city is a serious pain with all the traffic bottled up, and if I don't have to constantly shift gears, that would be great.

But, when I am out of town, on an open road (not neccessarily straight), an auto box would kill the joy of the whole thing, right?

With the kind of torque on your car, you probably do not need gears

tadukuttan · 21st August 2006, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

With the kind of torque on your car, you probably do not need gears

Actually true, but then I share this one with my wife, and she is not very happy with the trigger happy nature of accelerator, and she pretty much refuses to drive this around town. And I end up playing "driver" too often.

Which is why something "easier" drive, maybe an auto(with paddles so that I can also have a bit of fun?) is probably going to be a second car...

sandeep108 · 21st August 2006, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guess?

IMHO, the Honda Civic has a very crappy version of paddle shift but hey, atleast they are starting getting new changes in.

Why do you say that? In fact it is one of the few which let you stay in the gear you choose, even till you redline. It also allows you to downshift. Yes, the computer still controls some aspects to save gearbox/engine.

vincentt · 21st August 2006, 18:00

Well let me have my opinion. I voted for stick shift ... but I would surely prefer paddle shifters too for both up and down shifting.

I would not like to have an auto box, because of mileage issues and also I like to choose the gear I will drive in, not an auto box!!

Paddle shifts, will not help me stay awake .. I guess stick shift will not let you sleep even if you want to ....

sandeep108 · 21st August 2006, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincentt

Well let me have my opinion. I voted for stick shift ... but I would surely prefer paddle shifters too for both up and down shifting.

I would not like to have an auto box, because of mileage issues and also I like to choose the gear I will drive in, not an auto box!!

Paddle shifts, will not help me stay awake .. I guess stick shift will not let you sleep even if you want to ....

Well, in an auto box, you do have some say in choosing the gears - depends on how much you press the acc. pedal

dustDevil · 21st August 2006, 23:11

Considering what Adarsh and Mugen were discussing, in a thread that has been shifted here..... only having a control of when to change gears does not help increase the efficiency. Infact it will result in a drop... because the controller used in an auto box is programmed for a perfect mix of performance and efficiency. The other major reason in drop in efficiency compared to a manual box is the presence of a Hydraulic Coupling (OR Fluid Drive) which itself is a wasteful device on the energy front!

hellspawn · 22nd August 2006, 01:21

i wouldnt mind a paddle shift...first for the so cool factor..and then for the simple fact that its easier to operate than a manual transmission.i think what honda has done with the civic automatic is perfect for india and a lot of manufacturers will end up following the same lines.it gives you the option of driving on auto in traffic and and on an empty stretch of road u can pretend to be m.schumacher/jenson button or whoever u like....
now imagine a paddle shift on a palio 1.6....wheew

sandeep108 · 22nd August 2006, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustDevil

Considering what Adarsh and Mugen were discussing, in a thread that has been shifted here..... only having a control of when to change gears does not help increase the efficiency. Infact it will result in a drop... because the controller used in an auto box is programmed for a perfect mix of performance and efficiency. The other major reason in drop in efficiency compared to a manual box is the presence of a Hydraulic Coupling (OR Fluid Drive) which itself is a wasteful device on the energy front!

Agreed. On driving AT Civic with medium pressure on pedal, I noticed AT shifting at around 4k rpm, just about peak of torque curve. However Civic AT with 5 speed and ultra flat torque converter, may not result in too much drop in FE, maybe just 10% as compared to 20% in say other MT vs AT cars such as corolla. Let us see what long term AT owners have to say about FE.

And the AT has surprisingly decent pickup as well, in spite of all the slippage, I felt it had much better pickup than my 1.3OHC.

Rtech · 22nd August 2006, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Why do you say that? In fact it is one of the few which let you stay in the gear you choose, even till you redline. It also allows you to downshift. Yes, the computer still controls some aspects to save gearbox/engine.

Hey Sandeep, take a look at Guess?'s profile to see what he drives and you will understand why he thinks what he does of the Civic paddles

sandeep108 · 22nd August 2006, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

Hey Sandeep, take a look at Guess?'s profile to see what he drives and you will understand why he thinks what he does of the Civic paddles

Well, he is part of lucky few so well I guess it is understandable. The post anyway was for us poorest of the poor motoring public in India...

ST7677 · 22nd August 2006, 16:16

Paddle Shift is just another form of Tiptronic which should make lot of sense to hybrids like us - i.e. in between hard core enthusiasts and lazy bones...

Personally, I have driven lot of Autos in India and US and I believe the Paddle shift is a very good compromise between a Manual and an Auto option. I am sure, everyone who has driven an Auto would at times wish that they had more control on when the gear changes - this is exactly what the tiptronic lets you do.
The best would be DSG option by VW/Skoda, which is not available yet, but for all practical purpose Honda Civic Paddle shift is equally good (except for slower shifts compared to DSG).

See it's like this - at times you are spirited and want to rev the car to your tunes - you want manual
at other times - you are in bumper to bumper traffic and you want a fully auto car (may be even an automatic accelerator and the steering wheel)!

Tiptronic let's you play both these roles in same box. While the Auto option is as good, the Manual option is little less compared to the complete manual (there are torque convertor losses).

For this very reason tiptronic makes lot of sense in India = spirited + comfort...

As for Using Paddle shift as implementation of tiptronic, individual;s will vary in their tastes.

But then which other car produces paddle shift / tiptronic in India and also gives it at no extra cost (than a usual AT gearbox) - just Honda Civic.

Which means (in case of Honda Civic)
Paddle shift = regular Auto + Tiptronic + Paddle Shifts @ cost of regular auto tranny only!!!

sandeep108 · 22nd August 2006, 18:02

Exactly what occurred to me. For normal auto difference of about 70k, honda is actually giving paddle shifts, 5 speed and grade logic. That is quite a bit VFM IMHO, especially for self drivers or whose drivers can never change gears smoothly.

Guess? · 22nd August 2006, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Why do you say that? In fact it is one of the few which let you stay in the gear you choose, even till you redline. It also allows you to downshift. Yes, the computer still controls some aspects to save gearbox/engine.

It actually isn't that I don't like the programming of the Paddle-shift but the thing is that they could've given a hundred times better feel by just adding larger and better quality paddles. That was the thing that ruined it all for me. The paddles currently just make my hands ache and don't work correctly making my engine over-rev sometimes until I depress the + paddle once more by when I get worried that my engines fried. Just some quality issues if sorted out would make the system just perfect IMO for the Indian roads.

P.S. I know many of you think that paddles won't work in India, but IMO they actually suit the needs of the buyer to a T. Leave aside the fact that people generally prefer manuals due to better fuel economy, but the paddles work perfectly for chauffeur driven/older/highway/city runs while the kids/sportier times, you can have the fun of an almost manual when you really want to rip a car.

Jeeves · 22nd August 2006, 20:21

I test drove the MT and then the AT. Actually the paddle shift did it for me! It is great to have auto in traffic and fabulous to have paddle shift when the mood arrives.

yeis · 23rd August 2006, 11:14

Neither I like Automatics nor Paddle-shifts. Manual is more than enough for me. As far as paddle-shift is concerned, it seems to be an accessory to me.

View Poll Results: Which transmission would you like?
Paddle Shift	69	44.23%
Stick Shift	56	35.90%
Automatic Shift	31	19.87%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

21st August 2006, 18:00	#34
vincentt BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 70 Thanked: Once	which shift?? Well let me have my opinion. I voted for stick shift ... but I would surely prefer paddle shifters too for both up and down shifting. I would not like to have an auto box, because of mileage issues and also I like to choose the gear I will drive in, not an auto box!! Paddle shifts, will not help me stay awake .. I guess stick shift will not let you sleep even if you want to ....
	() Thanks

21st August 2006, 23:11	#36
dustDevil BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Surat Posts: 159 Thanked: 16 Times View My Garage	Considering what Adarsh and Mugen were discussing, in a thread that has been shifted here..... only having a control of when to change gears does not help increase the efficiency. Infact it will result in a drop... because the controller used in an auto box is programmed for a perfect mix of performance and efficiency. The other major reason in drop in efficiency compared to a manual box is the presence of a Hydraulic Coupling (OR Fluid Drive) which itself is a wasteful device on the energy front!
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 01:21	#37
hellspawn Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: noida Posts: 1,686 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	i wouldnt mind a paddle shift...first for the so cool factor..and then for the simple fact that its easier to operate than a manual transmission.i think what honda has done with the civic automatic is perfect for india and a lot of manufacturers will end up following the same lines.it gives you the option of driving on auto in traffic and and on an empty stretch of road u can pretend to be m.schumacher/jenson button or whoever u like.... now imagine a paddle shift on a palio 1.6....wheew
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 16:16	#41
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,072 Thanked: 106 Times	Paddle Shift is just another form of Tiptronic which should make lot of sense to hybrids like us - i.e. in between hard core enthusiasts and lazy bones... Personally, I have driven lot of Autos in India and US and I believe the Paddle shift is a very good compromise between a Manual and an Auto option. I am sure, everyone who has driven an Auto would at times wish that they had more control on when the gear changes - this is exactly what the tiptronic lets you do. The best would be DSG option by VW/Skoda, which is not available yet, but for all practical purpose Honda Civic Paddle shift is equally good (except for slower shifts compared to DSG). See it's like this - at times you are spirited and want to rev the car to your tunes - you want manual at other times - you are in bumper to bumper traffic and you want a fully auto car (may be even an automatic accelerator and the steering wheel)! Tiptronic let's you play both these roles in same box. While the Auto option is as good, the Manual option is little less compared to the complete manual (there are torque convertor losses). For this very reason tiptronic makes lot of sense in India = spirited + comfort... As for Using Paddle shift as implementation of tiptronic, individual;s will vary in their tastes. But then which other car produces paddle shift / tiptronic in India and also gives it at no extra cost (than a usual AT gearbox) - just Honda Civic. Which means (in case of Honda Civic) Paddle shift = regular Auto + Tiptronic + Paddle Shifts @ cost of regular auto tranny only!!!
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 18:02	#42
sandeep108 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,052 Thanked: 315 Times	Exactly what occurred to me. For normal auto difference of about 70k, honda is actually giving paddle shifts, 5 speed and grade logic. That is quite a bit VFM IMHO, especially for self drivers or whose drivers can never change gears smoothly.
	() Thanks

22nd August 2006, 20:21	#44
Jeeves BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 28 Thanked: 0 Times	I test drove the MT and then the AT. Actually the paddle shift did it for me! It is great to have auto in traffic and fabulous to have paddle shift when the mood arrives.
	() Thanks

23rd August 2006, 11:14	#45
yeis BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 238 Thanked: 4 Times	Neither I like Automatics nor Paddle-shifts. Manual is more than enough for me. As far as paddle-shift is concerned, it seems to be an accessory to me.
	() Thanks