[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

While we're discussing how SUVs are better suited to our market owing to the 7 seats and high GC, ACI had an interesting article

The article highlighted how unsafe the third row of seats is in case of a rear impact as the occupants are only a few inches away from the rear windscreen or hatch.

Sedan would be safer thanks to the boot, and also some sedans which have a steel plate on the rear seat to prevent luggage entering the cabin in case of a rear impact.

It seemed relevant considering that buyers opt for MUV/SUV over a sedan as they need 7 seats.

Your thoughts on this please.

It’s pretty hard to generalize IMHO. I guess it actually depends on the brand and the build quality they adhere to, rather than the body type of the vehicle. Normally, hatchbacks/SUVs/MPVs have extra reinforcements in the rear to mitigate the rear impact.

I don’t want to get into a brand comparison, but to give an example within the same family – In Euro-NACP rating, a puny VW Up! has the same (slightly better infact) rating than a VW Jetta for Rear Impact (whiplash). Both are indeed extremely safe cars with 5-star rating.

I prefer a sedan /hatchback more than the SUV – not because one is better than the other. My personal priorities include the low seating position, minimum body-roll, stability etc. That said, I really like the new breed of cross-overs like the Yeti

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by vb-san

It’s pretty hard to generalize IMHO.

Very true, one cannot generalize. Good that you brought up whiplash, ACI article says the third seat is unsafe for 2 primary reasons:

1.In most of the cases it doesn't come with proper head restraints, therefore risk of whiplash injuries is much higher in the third bench. AFAIK, euro ncap measures whiplash for front passengers right ? I saw bucket seats being used for the tests.

2.The back of one's head is barely a few inches away from the hatch and its pretty dangerous if a commercial vehicle crashes into a MUV/SUV from the back.

I find merit in their argument. I'm also a sedan guy, but like crossovers and SUV's for their added practicality

[reddevilgautam]

Another point, which might seem trivial but is crucial for office goers like me, is that the boot of a sedan is much better to keep a laptop. Its not visible as in the case of a hatchback / SUV, and that's important when you are going for a movie / dinner / just stopping by for groceries and can't / don't want to carry your laptop alongwith you. A laptop which can be seen through the window is much more inviting. I don't imagine a burglar taking the effort and risk of breaking the window to open the trunk of a sedan when he is not sure that it has a laptop or not.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by reddevilgautam

Another point, which might seem trivial but is crucial for office goers like me, is that the boot of a sedan is much better to keep a laptop. Its not visible as in the case of a hatchback / SUV, and that's important when you are going for a movie / dinner / just stopping by for groceries and can't / don't want to carry your laptop alongwith you. A laptop which can be seen through the window is much more inviting. I don't imagine a burglar taking the effort and risk of breaking the window to open the trunk of a sedan when he is not sure that it has a laptop or not.

I don't quite agree with this argument. The boots of all the hatches which have the rear parcel tray are as safe as a sedan, to keep the contents away from the prying eyes of burglars. If there is no parcel tray & the contents are visible through the rear windshield, then it is a different case.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

I don't quite agree with this argument. The boots of all the hatches which have the rear parcel tray are as safe as a sedan, to keep the contents away from the prying eyes of burglars. If there is no parcel tray & the contents are visible through the rear windshield, then it is a different case.

While SUVs have bigger storage areas for luggage, they do not have any concealed spaces apart from their gloveboxes and/or the center storage bin, which is certainly a bane.

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I don’t want to get into a brand comparison, but to give an example within the same family – In Euro-NACP rating, a puny VW Up! has the same (slightly better infact) rating than a VW Jetta for Rear Impact (whiplash). Both are indeed extremely safe cars with 5-star rating.

vb-san sir, AFAIK the Euro-NCAP rating is given as a relative rating for the vehicle under consideration among all vehicles in its class. For e.g. VW up! having a five start rating is in the supermini category. Jetta with 5 star is in compact sedan category.

That means, up! with 5 star will be more safe compared to other superminis having 4 star or 3 star.

It is entirely possible that up! be much less safe in event of a crash w.r.t. some large car which may have got only 3 stars or 4 stars.

[MAS]

I own both the all new Ford Fiesta and a Ford Endeavour (pre-owned).

The all new Ford Fiesta was bought in Jan 2012 & i have driven 15K kms. The Ford Endeavour is hardly a month old (25 days to be exact) and i have driven 1700 kms including a long drive yesterday.

Fiesta - 90 bhp; 1.5 Litre TDCi
Endeavour - 156 bhp; 3.0 Litre TDCi

After this sort of driving, a comparison is easy.

In the city:
The Fiesta is easier to drive, more agile and easier to get into smaller streets (though i avoid it to the max), ease of parking is a huge plus along with a smaller turning radius. But i am forced to be extra careful for the bikes, autos and the other traffic on the street. Everybody wants a piece of your space and it is mentally quite irritating. I have been banged/scratched 3 times till date and i am pretty upset with the way the guys behave after doing their act. To add to all this, the poor state of Chennai roads with & without rains, have kept me on my vigil to carefully plan the path i take on these roads so that i do not have a bruised bottom. But when compared to the Endeavour, the Fiesta is as silent as a petrol engine.

The Endeavour is (believe me) even more easier to drive (okay.. this is an automatic, but even otherwise). People just make way for the car and do not mess up with your space (the growl of the 3.0 Litre oil burner also contributes to this to a certain extent). The longer turning radius is a pain and sometimes gets on to you and yes, parking is a longer process. But, i find the SUV much more suitable for Chennai roads and i drive in my own world. Bad roads... What's that? Yes, there is more body roll, but hey, there is no worry of scrapping the bottom.

On the highway

Fiesta is fast (and quick), hugs the road to no end, loads and loads of grip, zero body roll, perfect handling to fish you out of any sticky situation and with cruise control there is no strain on long highway drives. But again, there are a number of trucks, TATA 407s, Sumos, Taveras and a long list of weekend highway drivers who just sadistically do not want you to travel faster than them. Also, after driving the Endeavour, i do not feel as safe in a Fiesta as i used to.

Endeavour on the other hand is fast (not quick), fair share of body roll on our highways, less than perfect handling and no cruise control (wish Ford had given this feature) is not as easy to drive on the highway as the Fiesta. But once it picks up speed, it is a tremendous highway cruiser. It eats up miles and miles of roads with the engine spinning at 2000 rpm when reaching the ton (less strained engine). There is a lot of air-cutting noise, road noise, engine noise and what not that seeps into the cabin. But, when it comes to the trucks, TATA 407s, Sumos, Taveras and the long list of weekend highway drivers, the Endeavour again gets its space and is easier to get through not-so-fast moving traffic on the highway. I also somehow felt much safer on the Endeavour.

Just my take, but after this Endeavour "thing" happened to me, the Fiesta is sitting in its garage covered in 5 double bed, bed spreads (hibernating).

On the Mileage front - Fiesta has returned me an average of 18.77 Kmpl whereas the Endeavour has been flamboyant with an average of 8.7 kmpl. I guess i will take the bed spreads off the fiesta when my pocket gets lighter, but till then i am enjoying driving my Endeavour.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

While SUVs have bigger storage areas for luggage, they do not have any concealed spaces apart from their gloveboxes and/or the center storage bin, which is certainly a bane.

Many SUVs do come with a parcel tray or a retractable lid to conceal the luggage

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

vb-san sir, AFAIK the Euro-NCAP rating is given as a relative rating for the vehicle under consideration among all vehicles in its class. For e.g. VW up! having a five start rating is in the supermini category. Jetta with 5 star is in compact sedan category.

That means, up! with 5 star will be more safe compared to other superminis having 4 star or 3 star.

It is entirely possible that up! be much less safe in event of a crash w.r.t. some large car which may have got only 3 stars or 4 stars.

OT: In my understanding, Euro-NCAP have around 10 different classifications of vehicles, but the ratings provided are not relative to a group of vehicles in a specific class. The ratings are done on individuals merits, and overall safety ratings are arrived based on scores in four areas: adult occupant protection, child protection, pedestrian safety and safety assist (ESP, seatbelt warning etc.).

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Guna

Many SUVs do come with a parcel tray or a retractable lid to conceal the luggage

Not in India. Bolero, Sumo, Scorpio, Safari, XUV, Innova, Endeavor, Fortuner, Captiva, Pajero...the list is a long one.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Not in India. Bolero, Sumo, Scorpio, Safari, XUV, Innova, Endeavor, Fortuner, Captiva, Pajero...the list is a long one.

Few I know which have parcel-tray/lid are CRV, Outlander, X3, Duster...

[shankar.balan]

The Yeti too has a parcel tray/ lid!

Originally Posted by Guna

Few I know which have parcel-tray/lid are CRV, Outlander, X3, Duster...

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by vb-san

OT: In my understanding, Euro-NCAP have around 10 different classifications of vehicles, but the ratings provided are not relative to a group of vehicles in a specific class. The ratings are done on individuals merits, and overall safety ratings are arrived based on scores in four areas: adult occupant protection, child protection, pedestrian safety and safety assist (ESP, seatbelt warning etc.).

Sir, please see the following:

From EuroNCAP:

Are large cars safer than small cars?
In frontal impacts between cars, the occupants of the heavier car or the one with higher structures tend to fare better than those travelling in lighter, lower cars. As it is not possible to simulate the influence of mass in a test against a fixed barrier, Euro NCAP recommends comparison only between cars which are of a similar mass (+/- 150kg) and in the same category. Such comparisons allow the relative safety performance of cars to be judged accurately.

Can results be compared between groups?
Accurate comparisons can only be made between cars in the same group. The frontal test mirrors a crash between two cars of similar size. A heavier car or one with a higher structure will tend to have an advantage if it impacts a smaller car. The Euro NCAP results cannot be used to predict the outcome of such crashes.

Source:Buying your car | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating


From ANCAP:

It is not appropriate to compare ANCAP ratings across vehicle categories, particularly if there is a large weight difference. The reason is that in car-to-car crashes the heavier vehicle has a theoretical advantage (due to the physics of the crash). Similarly, a higher ride height might be an advantage in a car-to-car crash.

Source:Car crash testing FAQs - ANCAP

[apachelongbow]

OT:More and more new drivers are opting for SUVs now, considering bad roads, higher perch and ofcourse the ability to bully other traffic. The growth numbers in SUV segment clearly reflects this trend. After a few years sedan numbers may be in minority to SUVs. We see how people drive on the roads today, in terms of bullying other road users. If we drive sedans when more SUVs abound, I am not sure where the sedan user will be in the pecking order. May be somwhat higher than a biker?

[johy]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

OT:More and more new drivers are opting for SUVs now, considering bad roads, higher perch and ofcourse the ability to bully other traffic. The growth numbers in SUV segment clearly reflects this trend. After a few years sedan numbers may be in minority to SUVs. We see how people drive on the roads today, in terms of bullying other road users. If we drive sedans when more SUVs abound, I am not sure where the sedan user will be in the pecking order. May be somwhat higher than a biker?

Going by this logic, the bigger SUV will bully the smaller SUV, as in the Endeavor should bully the Duster, and so on and so forth. In the end, most people will end up buying huge trucks instead! And subsequently bigger trucks. I hate this "bullying" mentality. When any joker in an SUV tries to bully me in a sedan, I just convert him to a tiny spot in the rear view mirror - that is right place for him.

On the other hand, in smaller towns like where I live, both in and around town, over the years (and here I am looking at the last 10-15 years), the roads have improved, become wider, and it is more pleasurable to drive a sedan. The SUV will just take you from point A to B in relative comfort, but with no driving pleasure (or a minimum of it). I think sedans will continue as long as people love to drive.