[sen2009]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Bolero?? Really??? You cannot call bolero a success just because it does 5-6k per month. Just look at the combined figures of 6-9 lakh sedans and they will be well over 30-40k every month. Bolero is best when driven on bad roads and can never qualify as an SUV. Its an 'UV' and UVs are built to handle some of the worst terrains. So why would an average joe buy a bolero, drive it in the city and take if for long drives in the 4 lane roads that we have now? In metro cities people drive 20-30km every day and spend a good 2 hrsin traffic , just imagin driving a bolero in these conditions. And the best part would be if you tried pushing it on the highways!
Im for sedans as long as we dont have enough options under 12 lakh{ which is 95% of the market} and unless the terrain doesnt demand one.

I don't disagree at all with the way you have defined bolero. It most definitely has all these problems.
What I was trying to say is if you look at a typical metro city traffic signal, there is a good chance that you'll spot a few Boleros along with the sedans. I feel the primary reason for one city dweller to choose bolero over a similarly priced sedan is peace of mind.
If you can recollect Sarjapura Road, Kanakpura Road or Bannerghatta Road from three four years back, you'll catch my drift (I don't know which roads in bangalore are broken now, but I am sure there are plenty).

Down here in Mumbai, there are very few people who do not have to cross at least one under construction flyover or other infrastructure development site. I am sure the situation is same in all metro and even non metro cities. Till all these WIP gets done, sedan is a risk!

Handling in congested traffic is just one part of the problem of city commute, and a smaller part at that. Reaching your destination without touching anything around or below is much greater a problem.

[NFS]

Sorry, It might be just me, but I really do not understand why everyone says Apples to Apples. In my opinion,

• I have a budget for a vehicle (Say 12L) and at first, I look at which are the cars that one can buy.
• I might even consider Nano here. IMO, just because my budget is 12L, I need not consider spending 11.99L and buy one. You look at options and evaluate.
• Sedan, can seat 5 and have luggage space
• SUV, can seat 5 and have luggage space (in fact more luggage space)
• Sedan, AC cooling is better
• SUV, on demand 7 seater. Sedan cannot seat 1 more than 5
• SUV, Ground Clearance, is better even seating 7 and light luggage. Sedan more than 5 with luggage, ground clearance reduced further (overloaded car, I know)
• Consider roads in Chennai after the rains, can I change to SUV as soon as I see Bad roads? unless we have 2 cars at home, like OTR Enthusiasts (1 regular office car + 1 Jeep for OTR).
• As stated earlier, Drove 450kms of 4 lane at 140kmph on a Sedan, 50kms more to go, bad roads starts and one is compelled to crawl at 20kmph and take 2hours (I would love to change the car on demand to SUV, when entering such a road. Wish I had an option)
• Sedan, my heart will bleed everytime, if I scrape the underbelly. I am still learning to climb the speedbraker slightly angled and then go over it steer left and listen to blaring Horns and stares from other road users behind.
• Not sure if Sedan wins or SUV, my heart & brain says SUV

No offence meant, the above thoughts are my personal opinion, but eagerly looking at buying Scorpio.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Bolero?? Really??? You cannot call bolero a success just because it does 5-6k per month. Just look at the combined figures of 6-9 lakh sedans and they will be well over 30-40k every month.

Are you serious in comparing the bolero's sales with all the 6-9 lakh sedans combined? that itself speaks a lot about the bolero's virtues!

[Screwdriva]

This is a very good thread. I too have often wondered which of the two makes more sense.

Thats why we booked a Yeti. IMO, a bridge between the two. All the pluses of its sibling, the Laura, with added height, 4WD and yet compact and easy to drive.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by NFS

Sorry, It might be just me, but I really do not understand why everyone says Apples to Apples.

Would you consider buying a petrol Scorpio which would give you all the other things except the fuel advantage? I am sure a petrol Scorpio wouldn't give you more than 5-6 in the city.

For me, since most of the places I travel around NCR have decent roads, it's a sedan for me. If I could afford, I would keep an SUV (with bull bars) and a sedan in my garage. An SUV for peace of mind driving (since size does matter on Indian roads) and a (petrol) sedan for sheer comfort and driving pleasure.

I guess a SUV with car like suspensions (i.e. provide comfort) and good GC and better driving dynamics than the Safari/Scorpio would be an ideal vehicle for me.

PS: before this gets into a diesel Vs petrol debate, I do count engine note in driving pleasure.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by motorworks

So why would an average joe buy a bolero, drive it in the city and take if for long drives in the 4 lane roads that we have now? In metro cities people drive 20-30km every day and spend a good 2 hrsin traffic , just imagin driving a bolero in these conditions.

Average joe here. I do all the above in a Bolero. Go Figure!!

And the best part would be if you tried pushing it on the highways!

The second name of Bolero is spelled R-E-L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y.

You have apparently never owned one.

[motorworks]

Apparently many of you are fuming about my comments on Bolero. I do not intend to malign a vehicle's reputation here. Bolero is at its best when driven on difficult terrains where a sedan may end up getting damaged.
But my point is that how much of these difficult terrains do we encouter in our day to day life? If you bought a bolero and drove primarily in the city, then it defeats the whole purpose. And the fact is that a Sedan will offer far better comfort, FE in most normal conditions. My Dad owns a logan and drives to our farmhouse in the same without any issues in spite of the road being made out of sand / mud. Yes, he has to drive carefully and may be if had a bolero he would have driven quicker or even better, but the point is that for an occasional trip you cannot sacrifice your every day comfort. And I live in Bangalore, drive a dzire and havent had any issues. May be on bad roads you slow down, be a little bit more careful. There may be occassional under body scrapes on large speed breakers, but these are just too rare and doesnt call for an SUV. The bottom line is if you drive on difficult terrains quite regularly then sedans are ruled out. Otherwise on normal city conditions I cannot really think of an SUV or a UV {Bolero}, And my argument is based on the fact that we are talking about a budget under 11-12 lakhs, where you have only the safari and scorpio.

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by motorworks

And the best part would be if you tried pushing it on the highways!

Did you mean, literally pushing the Bolero, because it would have broken down? Or accelerating away to glory? Just kidding.

Bolero is a very common vehicles on highways. It may not be very fast, but reaches destination in time, plus or minus 15 minutes I would say.

Originally Posted by sen2009

Handling in congested traffic is just one part of the problem of city commute, and a smaller part at that. Reaching your destination without touching anything around or below is much greater a problem.

Agree. Sometimes I feel my hatch would metamorphose into Mahindra Commander. The metal edges act as a deterrant to 2 wheelers, autos and cabs.

[2500cc]

Am a average Joe who drives Bolero EVERY SINGLE DAY. I love to drive this vehicle over any hatch or sedan any day for the fact that, despite its size, it is sheer pleasure to drive in the city limits for the following reasons:

1. Torquey engine: no need to change the gears frequently.
2. Auto and 2-wheelers give you way.
3. Decent Mileage (I get about 12kmpl)
4. Very Good AC.

I also use this as my Family vehicle for long trips. My long trips are

2 times to Tirupathi in a Year (1000Kms)
2 vacations a year (3000kms)
Monthly trip to my native (150kms/trip)

My Kid, wife and parents love to sit in this vehicle. I told them that we shall buy Xylo. But somehow they are more happy with Bolero (They trust this vehicle so much, it has saved our lives couple of times without taking even a single scratch).


Again, Am a Average Joe

Originally Posted by motorworks

Bolero?? Really??? You cannot call bolero a success just because it does 5-6k per month. Just look at the combined figures of 6-9 lakh sedans and they will be well over 30-40k every month. Bolero is best when driven on bad roads and can never qualify as an SUV. Its an 'UV' and UVs are built to handle some of the worst terrains. So why would an average joe buy a bolero, drive it in the city and take if for long drives in the 4 lane roads that we have now? In metro cities people drive 20-30km every day and spend a good 2 hrsin traffic , just imagin driving a bolero in these conditions. And the best part would be if you tried pushing it on the highways!
Im for sedans as long as we dont have enough options under 12 lakh{ which is 95% of the market} and unless the terrain doesnt demand one.

[Screwdriva]

No offense to the Bolero owners but the car is infact antiquated. Incremental updates and chrome highlights over the years do not make a car modern. A new platform does!

Most Indian car manufacturers believe in milking a platform for more than a decade before investing in a new design ( Tata Safari, Indica etc etc). I guess Indian consumers are to blame as well. We buy substandard products and then applaud the manufacturer after they fix all the kinks several years later.

Is the Bolero capable? Yes. Is it modern? No. Do we deserve a modern, capable offering, YES!

[Sheel]

Lets not turn this thread into Bolero VS Others.
Please.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Lets not turn this thread into Bolero VS Others.
Please.

A last one if you dont mind.

Originally Posted by Screwdriva

Is the Bolero capable? Yes. Is it modern? No. Do we deserve a modern, capable offering, YES!

+ at the price the Bolero costs.

[MileCruncher]

Adding to what a few Bolero owners have already said before, last 1.5 yrs almost 95% of my driving has been on the Bolero. That includes some city driving and lot of highway driving and that too a lot of it in the night.

Going by most of the comments over here, I can gauge that most of the people commenting have never in their lifetime driven a Bolero. I can dig up quite a few first reactions from sedan owners on driving my Bolero VLX, but I won't do that.

Why?

Because I would like all of you to spare a few minutes of your busy schedule and TD the Bolero VLX. Agreed that its on a antiquated platform and has bad brakes and many other such irritants, but its not that bad as its being made out here in the forum.

Don't take my word for it. Just go and TD the Bolero VLX and you'll ourselves know.

Cheers

[NFS]

I am sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone. Please do NOT misunderstand me.

Today there are lot of discussions on making diesel prices at par with Petrol or at least take away the subsidy. Truly for me, I do NOT think my choice of Scorpio was because it runs on Diesel. Of course 5-6 will be too poor for a vehicle and may be I will think of what Honorable Minister Jairam Ramesh said. Highway ~13 City ~11 should be good.

Originally Posted by asr245

Would you consider buying a petrol Scorpio which would give you all the other things except the fuel advantage? I am sure a petrol Scorpio wouldn't give you more than 5-6 in the city.

For me, since most of the places I travel around NCR have decent roads, it's a sedan for me. If I could afford, I would keep an SUV (with bull bars) and a sedan in my garage. An SUV for peace of mind driving (since size does matter on Indian roads) and a (petrol) sedan for sheer comfort and driving pleasure.

I guess a SUV with car like suspensions (i.e. provide comfort) and good GC and better driving dynamics than the Safari/Scorpio would be an ideal vehicle for me.

PS: before this gets into a diesel Vs petrol debate, I do count engine note in driving pleasure.

[raj_5004]

Even if diesel prices are on par with petrol, i would still buy an SUV... but a diesel SUV. whats an SUV without the diesel's torque?! And i think many would.

I bought the scorpio not because its a diesel & has the efficiency advantage over petrol sedans. For that, I could have bought the diesel indica or the tavera.