[rideon]

Going back a couple of months, Thar was apparently being tested here, as per the website below:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/922780/...-in-australia/.

Also, a search on the web shows a small section of people in AU (especially Queensland) who love their Pik-up. Check out their videos - could be paid promotions, but not all of them.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by imranstael

Fun fact, people don't only buy cars for their looks. And if you've seen them in person, the Thar looks like the small, ugly cousin of the Wrangler.

Funny since Mahindra abandoned that segment too with the new Thar, which is the embodiment of lifestyle-poser cringe. At least the Wrangler never lost or sacrificed capability over the years, and in fact only got better in those aspects.

The new Thar throws capability and durability out the window for looks and comfort in a perfect 'lifestyle-poser cringe' pivot

People do buy cars on their looks, in fact looks are the biggest pull factor. This whole thread exists because of the look.

The only thing Jeep is known for is the capability to make a statement at the cost of everything else. Much like like, land rover if you want to go anywhere, landcruiser if you want to get back. If the thar is compromised, then jeep doesn't have to bother as they have capability and brand image as you claim.

Thar is still affordable, so the off-road part of still doable. All this in Australia where the Japanese rule, can't think of any reason to buy a jeep for the outback versus proven Japanese options.

[pandabear]

Originally Posted by imranstael

The Thar might be similar (but still much worse) in the looks department, but cannot hold a candle to the Wrangler in any other department, be it performance, comfort, luxury, reliability or durability.

They are probably giving you the same jeep per rupee/dollar. What one will choose depends on how much you can/would spend.

Hard facts:

Jeeps are not reliable at all, the Japanese still are way better in this aspect. Personally seen problems in Jeeps range from cracking dashboards, to failed shafts. Would pick a Toyota FJ over the Jeep any day.

One important fact affecting Indian car buyers is the value for money quotient (not how cheap or expensive), the sales numbers speak for themselves.

[GTO]

Mahindra has gotten away with theft just because we have always associated Mahindra with "Jeeps", and they legally built them since the 1950s. But AFAIK, the licence expired in the mid-90s, which is why Mahindra even removed the "CJ" (Civilian Jeep) moniker from its products. Although I love the 2nd-gen Thar, I will be the first to call out Mahindra on this. There is no doubt they have cheated and this is a blatant theft of intellectual property.

Again, the Thar got away with it only because Mahindra has always built Jeeps. How would we feel if Tata launched a Landcruiser-replica tomorrow? Or Maruti launches an exact copy of the VW Beetle? Sucks that a respectable company with a market cap of 1-lakh crore cannot give its products original designs!

Adding a poll. If I was CEO of FCA India, I would sue the heck out of Mahindra. They had better do it fast so that no statute of limitations kicks in.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Why was this not a problem when Thar CRDe released?

My guess:

1. Because it looked almost identical to the Mahindra 540 / 550 which Mahindra had built legally.

2. Because Jeep India wasn't selling the original at the same time.

[avira_tk]

The thread is now a little different from when I last posted. If the question is about protecting Mahindra, then it's a no brainer, protect the local guy at all costs. I know for some people it's a hard choice, but I support the domestic having more capability with government support.

[srh]

The Wrangler & Thar look similar. But calling the Thar a copy is stretching it too much. The Roxor court ruling was a abuse of IP laws.

But given the Roxor experience, M&M would already have factored suitable tweaks during design itself. As & when the Thar gets launched in markets which use IP are a perverse method against foreign competition, it will be a version which is tweaked suitably.

[Beerus]

If two independent companies start with a product "A" and develop the product over the years, again independently and reach product "C". That to 50 years apart. Will this be an IP infringement?

Because Mahindra did have a license to build the early jeeps and they developed it on their own from there on, I don't know if there were rules about developing that design and if it was so FCA should have stopped Mahindra at the first Thar itself in Indian courts.

Both the Wrangler and the Thar look great independently, but when parked side by side, everyone can easily tell which one FCA made. I am also pretty sure no one on the road will call a Thar, a Wrangler.

We also can be sure of the fact that mechanically they both don't share even a single part. FCA in my opinion is just acting like a bully because it knows that a safer cheaper vehicle will end them.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by GTO

My guess:

1. Because it looked almost identical to the Mahindra 540 / 550 which Mahindra had built legally.

2. Because Jeep India wasn't selling the original at the same time.

Thar CRDe was allowed to be sold in India and abroad without any problems. If Mahindra claims Thar 2020 to be an evolution of Thar CRDe, its going to be interesting to see how long its going to drag in the court.

[padmrajravi]

Voted yes, Mahindra deserves all the heat it gets because of the similarity with Wrangler. The point is, with all the resources at its disposal, it was possible for Mahindra to design a slightly different front fascia and still retain the DNA of Thar.

Jeep is not sueing them for designing a high ground clearance vehicle with traditional 4x4. They are complaining about the dress Mahindra chose to give their 4x4. Just changing the headlight and grill design would have left Jeep with no case. In my opinion, Mahindra decided to purposefully violate intellectual property. Just like those Chinese companies who sell copies of Range rovers and Mercedes cars. They were confident nothing will happen in India. And that is true to an extend.

[NikhilReddy]

I voted NO

Reason: Mahindra Jeep evolved over few decades. Most of the 4X4 have a some what similar design. Force Motors Gurkha has a similar design to Merc G Wagon (IMO). Mahindra Thar does resemble Jeep Wrangler to a great detail, but we all know that these two come with very different tech, comfort & quality. If Mahindra Thar is going to be poor mans Wrangler so be it. They both cater to different customer segments. Not sure why is Jeep Wrangler feeling threatened by Mahindra Thar.

FIAT, my favorite company, had some lovely looking and high quality cars launched in India. But it had to wind up due to various reasons. Some of them being - Brand Image, Customer Service, Marketing & Price to Quality. Are they afraid that Mahindra can do much better than FIAT in all the aspects? Are they afraid that Mahindra Jeep can internationally run over Jeep Wrangler and be the nemesis of Jeep?

[pandabear]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Looks to me like Mahindra can only build and sell the Thar only in India, based on all the licenses it has maintained historically.

Well, Mahindra stand is that they have a licence to build in India. But the license does not mention anything about selling it out of India. Hence Mahindra is abusing that loophole. I am not saying it is right but a contact is a contract as long as it's valid. I am yet to read into the Roxor case. Anyone having PDFs can post it here for clarity rather than comments based on hearsay.

I don't know how tough it is to come up with an original design instead of blatantly copying the Wrangler.

[travelling owl]

Yes, JEEP should sue Mahindra top to bottom. We always mocked Chineese companies because they copied other well known brands and sold them dirt cheap. This worked because they had less costs on design. Now its a shame that one of the reputed Indian brands is doing the same, how nice this story would have evolved if they had built something nice with their own design themes! This would have become a model for other brands.

[Comrade]

I would ask FCA to sue Mahindra in Indian courts. I am not sure about the exact agreements between original JEEP and M&M; but its blatant misuse of that agreement and also non-ethical to copy a recent model, especially when M&M has stopped making the CJ and has already diversified into own successful designs like scorpio, XUV etc.

[Tgo]

I guess it boils down to whether Jeep's Intellectual property / trade dress is protected by the Indian law or not.

The decision would definitely be in Mahindra's favour for various reasons. A few which I can think of:

-Different price brackets they serve
-Import v/s Indigenous product
-Interpretations of "similarities" between the design
-Thar has sold 15,000 v/s 7 Wranglers in the same period

When we say copied - its not that Mahindra stole their design and drawings. They did grounds up engineering for each and every component.

Protecting intellectual property and cashing in on it is a very western trend. Wouldn't comment on the good and bad of it but, It doesn't have much cognizance in a country where every other street has Laxmi Mishthan Bhandar and New Laxmi Mishthan Bhandar right next to each other.

I doubt if the westerners have the patience and tactics of dealing with the legal system of our country, especially for such cases and circumstances.

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by Tgo

I guess it boils down to whether Jeep's Intellectual property / trade dress is protected by the Indian law or not.

The decision would definitely be in Mahindra's favour for various reasons. A few which I can think of:

-Different price brackets they serve
-Import v/s Indigenous product
-Interpretations of "similarities" between the design
-Thar has sold 15,000 v/s 7 Wranglers in the same period

When we say copied - its not that Mahindra stole their design and drawings. They did grounds up engineering for each and every component.

Protecting intellectual property and cashing in on it is a very western trend. Wouldn't comment on the good and bad of it but, It doesn't have much cognizance in a country where every other street has Laxmi Mishthan Bhandar and New Laxmi Mishthan Bhandar right next to each other.

If we allow this, then how different are we from those Chinese companies who make cheap look alike of Land Rovers, Porsche etc? Even those Chinese companies did the grounds up engineering for every component. They did not copy the engines, gear boxes or any other major mechanicals. Instead they used their own engineered versions to build their LandRovers which costs 1/3 or even less. Also in terms of sales, the copies of Porsches and other exotics, the Chinese copies sells in thousands while the original sells in single or double digits. Do you see any similarity?

We used to ridicule them, call them copy cats. In fact the whole world ridiculed them. Now a respectable company in India with enough resources, both financially and in terms of design expertise, does the exact same thing which can bring shame to our automobile industry. We shouldn't allow this and as an Indian, I fully support FCA in this matter. They should sue the heck out of Mahindra.

And moreover, I am not concerned about whether FCA is cashing in and misusing IP laws for their benefit. The way I see it is, What Mahindra did is ethically wrong. Someone has to make them accountable for their actions.