[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Tucker48

This is your perception of truth, please don't impose it on others.

Looks like 3/4th of the community agrees with him anyways, going by the poll results above.

Now, if that's the opinion of the biggest Indian automotive forum where Mahindra naturally should have received the maximum support - guess we can all imagine what the world thinks!

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by Singh101

...Picture two companies......call it "A" the original and the other a version of it, nearly a twin, under licence.

Both ...continued to build Product A with continual, incremental updates and refinement- both in their own ways.

Is it really that much of a surprise that the Product A twins evolved to look similar to each other?
...

Everything seemed fine till Mahindra could only really manufacture a decidedly worse product than Jeep.
....

Do I support plagiarism - absolutely not.

1. Has Mahindra been making a WW2 war tested 4x4 since the late 40s and evolved the product over years -- Yes

2. Does the current 2020 Thar look like a logical evolution of the previous gen Thar in terms of looks -- Absolutely Yes.

3. Suddenly it can't be called plagiarism if the new "evolved" Thar is crash test compliant, comes with Airbags, more road worthy suspension, fit and finish and with better engines. All these are common with all modern cars.

4. Is the "evolved" Thar more handsome compared to the FCA Jeep Wrangler-- I think so.
5. Does the new Thar offer better value in terms of function although all of its underlying components are substantially different to the Jeep Wrangler -- Yes.

Its just that the last two points will make the Thar decimate all competition and capture the market in its category. This is what FCA is worried about.

I would have called the looks of the Thar plagiarized if it had been designed overnight like the Chinese do. But the looks of the 2020 Thar is a very reasonable evolution of its previous iteration.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Mod Note: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use a spell-checker.

[AMG Power]

Distinguishing features that set Mahindra apart from the Jeep:

1. An engine that is a good fruit juicer cum blender and serves up the engine internals as a smoothie.

2. A turbo petrol 150 bhp engine that cannot go beyond 100 kmph unless one is on a suicide mission.

3. A car that breaks down as you drive it from the showroom while taking delivery.

So it’s wrong to state that the Thar is a copy when only the grille, head lights, doors, bonnet, front mudguards, side panels, windscreen, roofline and other minor details are exactly the same as the Jeep.

Beauty is not skin deep, it lies deep within...

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

I do not understand why jeep should be worried,when mahindra can not manage deliviring thar's in india inside of 9 months,whats the hassle outside of india

The problem is that unlike the Chinese copies that no one cares about, Mahindra does have a pedigree. People on this forum might be willing to throw their own country under the bus to appear virtuous or whatever, Australian customers would certainly see the value in a vehicle that doesn't come with electronics from FCA. Mahindra constantly improves their offering, they will do well in Australia if they launch, Jeep can't compete and of course they choose to go legal.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Just like Stellantis is the inheritor of the Jeep designs in other markets, Mahindra is the inheritor in India.

To GTO’s point, their right to use the Jeep brand lapsed in the 1990s - but not their right to use the Jeep designs and to continue developing the same.

Leaving the legalities aside, does having built Jeeps under licence earlier give them the right to blatantly xerox-copy the new ones too? Is it a perpetual indefinite licence to steal designs? Can't Mahindra design its own Jeeps? If this is the way things are going, we don't have to wait for scoop pictures of the next-generation Thar. Let's us simply watch the next-gen Wrangler's launch .

This is not just a question of legal rights. It is of ethics, being original and using your own capability. Just because they can get away with it doesn't mean they should.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

This not related to Jeep or Mahindra, but wanted to show you this one in case you have not seen it before. Land Rover has lost a court case in UK against Ineos, though Jim Ratcliffe himself had said the design is inspired from Defender. In reality, it is not inspired, it is almost a copy of the Defender 110. What is your opinion about it?

Thanks for sharing and yes I am aware of it. I try my best to stay close to reality, so yeah it is copy. It’s pretty obvious from the outset on what Sir JR wanted to do.

Thanks to TAHR for providing the background details in the following post that may provide better context.

Originally Posted by TAHR

One big difference. In the case of Ineos, it was a conscious decision to resurrect the old Defender (for the purists, and markets that demanded old-school functionality) after it was discontinued by JLR in favour of the new model.

Ratcliffe formally approached JLR to buy out the Defender facility, and if the latter declined, it could perhaps only be down to their legitimate pride in keeping the Defender legacy to themselves or just plain corporate vanity.

So, essentially, Ineos was not trying to rip off an in-production design surreptitiously behind JLR's back. They were very open and public about their intention from the very beginning to keep alive a classic icon.

It's another matter that JLR lost the case on the technicality that they had not patented their design. On a personal note, though the Grenadier is very impressive, there will always be only one Defender. It's without doubt, my all-time favourite vehicle.

Originally Posted by Tucker48

Also ask someone around you to point out the differences between the two vehicles in the pictures you have posted above. For pointing out similarities, add G wagon too.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Side by side you can see how different they are but it won't suit the narrative which you have come to believe.

May be the below would help I guess.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Distinguishing features that set Mahindra apart from the Jeep:

1. An engine that is a good fruit juicer cum blender and serves up the engine internals as a smoothie.

2. A turbo petrol 150 bhp engine that cannot go beyond 100 kmph unless one is on a suicide mission.

3. A car that breaks down as you drive it from the showroom while taking delivery.

So it’s wrong to state that the Thar is a copy when only the grille, head lights, doors, bonnet, front mudguards, side panels, windscreen, roofline and other minor details are exactly the same as the Jeep.

Beauty is not skin deep, it lies deep within...

[Tucker48]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Looks like 3/4th of the community agrees with him anyways, going by the poll results above.

Now, if that's the opinion of the biggest Indian automotive forum where Mahindra naturally should have received the maximum support - guess we can all imagine what the world thinks!

Now this is where things are wrong with the world!
People still elect corrupt politicians and most drivers in India have scant regard for rules. What the majority or even the 99% of the population thinks right can't always be right. I'm not saying it's wrong to have your opinion but to ridicule others is not right. Also people not doing research and then saying things about a particular matter is also not right. The poll says "should FCA sue Mahindra over Thar"? And here are people debating only one aspect of the story 'Looks'. Thank God it's about a car, not about a toilet commode as they all look the same too!
By the way squat toilet is the best health wise. How many of us in this forum use that?

[condor]

Mahindra sure has the audacity to test the waters with a blatant look-alike. Naturally, FCA drags them to court.

Even if FCA had not objected to this being sold along side there, most people would likely choose the original Jeep than the Thar.

IMO, All that Mahindra had to do - use the new Scorpio facia on the Thar, and sell it as the Thar. This approach would have opened the markets across all countries that Mahindra is in.

FCA has not objected to the Thar in India. But if they do, then it's a separate story.

[V.Narayan]

IP infringement law suits are a dime a dozen especially in the West. IP law suits are used as a political and competitive weapon to corner rivals. What's happening here is no different.

Some of the views expressed here seem to have decided that just because F sues M then even before the Court sits to review the case M is guilty and F is the paragon of purity!?! I would hesitate to put a Western company on a pedestal. Seen too many of them from the under side that only a small supplier or franchisee gets to see. I will admit they manage their media and PR better and clearly it is working on this thread. They manage their PR so well and so subtlety that we and they start believing in their virtuousness. If some member here is an IP lawyer {I believe we have a couple of them} and knows about the subjective world of design infringement then his/her views would certainly help.

Why are we sitting in judgement. What is FCA suing over? - the looks of the first 2 metres of the front? What about the interiors, the mechanicals, the dashboard etc. I would hesitate to adopt a self righteous attitude of 'oh those dirty M&M guys' just because some Western company has sued. Would we have got so holier than thou if this was a Chinese company in place of FCA?

[motorworks]

Something that I cannot understand, if Mahindra had the licence to build the Jeep body until a certain period and the license in fact has expired now, why did FCA not do anything about this all these years in India? Is there something in the so called expired contract that allows Mahindra to build Jeep inspired designs in its home country? And is that why FCA has brought this up in USA and Australia and done nothing so far in India? I mean they have been having the wrangler on sale for a good 3 years in India now and in that same time Mahindra has sold the 1st gen Thar and launched the 2nd gen.

For Mahindra, staying out of Australia or the USA is the easiest thing to do. In all fairness, they haven’t really done justice to their home market. Since they are now consolidating businesses and letting go off unprofitable ventures like Ssangyong, I think their focus will remain India for a very long time. So FCA is not going to anything here or if they cannot do anything in India due to some clause in the earlier contract then Mahindra still comes out as the winner and will continue to laugh all the way to the bank when they launch the 5 door version too.

Ethically, Mahindra should not have done it. But, like I said, if the earlier contract had given them the leeway to take inspirations from the Jeep body in their future products even if the contract expires, then they are probably justified in doing what they are doing. Else its just a case of lacking in creativity and maximising profits while they can.

[condor]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I would hesitate to put a Western company on a pedestal. Seen too many of them from the under side that only a small supplier or franchisee gets to see.

From what I have read, even Amazon is guilty of that. I had read a note about the supposed source/origin/inspiration of Amazon basics products: Some one designs a very good product, takes the pain to take it all the way to production. Then lists in various sites, including Amazon. Amazon does a replica and sells it as an Amazon Basics product. Most of these are small value items, and are not pursued because Amazon is a giant with enough resources in hand.

[AMG Power]

New Mahindra Roxor:



The judge took one look at it, was overwhelmed with pity and has allowed them to sell this Lego toy lookalike in the US.

Now if Lego takes them to court...

[Sirvoicar]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Distinguishing features that set Mahindra apart from the Jeep:
1. An engine that is a good fruit juicer cum blender and serves up the engine internals as a smoothie.
2. A turbo petrol 150 bhp engine that cannot go beyond 100 kmph unless one is on a suicide mission.
3. A car that breaks down as you drive it from the showroom while taking delivery.
So it’s wrong to state that the Thar is a copy when only the grille, head lights, doors, bonnet, front mudguards, side panels, windscreen, roofline and other minor details are exactly the same as the Jeep.
Beauty is not skin deep, it lies deep within...

.but then, replicas too get their own mileage

[indian21r]

I voted yes because I do not want Mahindra or other Indian companies go the Chinese way where we give scant regard for the effort put in development of a product over multiple years. Mahindra claiming everything is their indigenous design is again not right. But I am surprised by the comments on either side though.

A lot of Indians who are buying would see this as an evolution over the older Thar than the Wrangler. I am sure a lot of buyers would not have even seen the Wrangler. Heck I live 2 km from the Jeep dealership in Hyderabad and I hardly ever see the Wrangler. It is not like the old Thar looked like KUV100 and the next generation was a Wrangler replica. People have memories of travelling in the Jeep from yesteryears. Mahindra made it possible with this generation. My family was in awe when they saw the Thar 2020. Mind you majority of them would think Wrangler or Thar are one and the same. Ultimately they share the same DNA.

It is essentially the RE Bullet Classic story of 2010. Connect with the classic retro looks with easy maintenance. By no means either are perfect. But they met the child in the buyer who jumped at the first sight of these rides. People claiming we could have done a Ford Bronco or a Toyota here. But lets accept with we are only at the second generation. And Mahindra did not taste the same success with the first Thar.

As of a owner of the current generation Thar, I would have loved if they did not copy the small bits and pieces. The reason to purchase this 4x4 over the Previous one is because it is a huge upgrade over the older one. It is more contemporary in the interiors / engines /gearbox. Even if it is predominantly a 2 seater it can be a second car. With the previous one it was not the case at all.

Mahindra should use these legal cases as a checkpoint and course correct. They made a mistake. Give them time I am sure they will mature.