[kiku007]

Here we go again.

For the nth time in TBHP, people defend how the below isn't a damn copy.





If this hasn't opened your eyes to the truth then nothing else will.

There's always a market for cheap imitations and often times that market is bigger than the original but that doesn't justify anything. Mahindra Thar's success in India and FCA's failure to succeed in India and Australia have nothing to do with this thread.

There may be things happening behind the doors at both FCA and Mahindra that ended up in FCA not suing Mahindra in India but doing the same in Australia. I'll just wait and watch to see how this unfolds.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by kiku007

If this hasn't opened your eyes to the truth then nothing else will.

Side by side you can see how different they are but it won't suit the narrative which you have come to believe.

To give you an example, MB did not invent the automobile nor did Willys invent a Jeep.

[amvj]

Mahindra truly deserves this. They have one of the most prestigious design houses (Pininfarina) and yet they still copied Jeep and shamelessly sell that to other countries despite they just now moved from the Roxor fiasco. Now what is the difference between Chinese and Indian (Mahindra) car companies - they both blatantly rip-off other people's hard work. Mahindra is making us feel embarrassed in the international stage.

[GeeTee TSI]

Merriam-Webster defines Plagiarise as 'present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source'.

Some famous compositions come to mind where a plagiarised track is wildly popular, especially with people who are blissfully ignorant of the original. While composers could get away with it in the past thanks to the isolated customer base from the rest of the globe, that is not the situation in today's connected world

Thar quite comes across as a derivative of the Wrangler. In fact it would have been a wonderful cheaper iteration of the full blown Wrangler for 'developing' markets had Jeep conceived it!
Even if we are being generous and link Thar to M&M's own lineage, that in itself has been derived from various earlier versions of Jeep. The very licence which entitled M&M to produce Jeep based products in India has straitjacketed them into the current situation where they can neither move drastically away from their design language in India, nor can they be in the clear when it comes to IP.

This should have been better foreseen by M&M while they progressed from a domestic manufacturer to an India based global conglomerate

[superbad]

This news is not surprising, was just a matter of time. What is surprising is that FCA has not yet sued Mahindra in India.

[sid_deb]

I am sure Mahindra knew what they were getting into and did their legal work on this.

Also personally, I don't agree with the poll definition. We have already concluded that Mahindra copied Jeep on this. No one is guilty until proven in a court of law

While the design may be similar, it's not exactly the same. We still aren't as good as the Chinese in copying.

See the example of Geely GE vs the Rolls Royce Phantom (attaching the link of the article whose image this is). Now this is copying, not Thar vs Wrangler in my opinion. Also the dimensions, technology (engine, power-train), etc. in case of Thar vs. Wrangler are all different.

https://www.automotiveaddicts.com/43...tai-vs-bentley

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Thar looks so close to the Wrangler. Wrangler buyer looks like an idiot in front of common Indians! Who pays 65 Lakhs for a car that looks like our Thar!

This happened to a colleague who recently bought a Wrangler. He hates the decision now because people won't stop congratulating him for getting the "new Thar". They tell him how good a vehicle Mahindra Thar is before he can even tell them it's not a Thar.

Another incident which happened to him was when someone accused him of being "cheap" because he bought a Thar and have put Wrangler "stickers" on it.

[Fiestaboy]

As a product i always like Mahindra & my father is a loyal customer for >22years in farm equipment's sector.

However, when it comes to their Design policies in creating a product or Partnership visions, i don't like Mahindra at any cost.

I usually reject M&M cars for the same reasons. Until they care (or at least sympathize with their JV organization/ bought out companies, as like their own kid, my opinion is not going to change).
Getting a winning organization by losing the JV's/bought one's but using their data's or design is not good in my thoughts.

For me, any product is a kid of that organization & it need to born from employees with love & care. It might look overly thought, but it's just my personal views & believe me or not, my father will go to M&M if he wants to buy new vehicle & i don't interfere in it.

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Another incident which happened to him was when someone accused him to be "cheap" because he bought a Thar and have put Wrangler "stickers" on it.

This is taking it to the next level. No wonder FCA is feeling threatened

Seriously though, is the general public not able to differentiate Thar from the Wrangler. Considering they all share the same DNA possibility of looking similar is always there.

I just wish Mahindra was mindful when taking the inspiration.

[parambyte]

The new Ford Bronco is in exactly the same space as the Jeep Wrangler. But see, an original design.

The Toyota FJ Cruiser too was in the same space (until discontinued). But see, another original design.

The Original Land Rover Defender. Same space, original design.

I wonder with all the profits and money that Mahindra has, why doesn't it work on a more original design. I am not even commenting on how I find it very pricey and not commenting on even though Scorpio (or XUV500) is an original design, I still find it unrefined.

[V.Narayan]

Bizarre Yoga Patents Deepen Indo-US Dispute


http://www.businessworld.in/article/...06-2016-99364/

Yoga may not be related to cars but as we are talking here of intellectual property and patents and copyrights thought I'd share this news item of today with our members and readers. The poll itself is skewed by saying "Should Jeep sue Mahindra in India for copying the Wrangler?" - so guilty as charged where FCA is plaintiff, judge & jury. The tone then is reflected in several of the posts. Every dispute has two sides. I at least would like to hear M&M's side before judging for myself.

If M&M have violated design copyrights {or whatever is the correct term} then let's wait for the Australian Court to decide. Unlike US Courts and their entire judicial system {on this matter of IP} we can expect the Australian courts to be objective and impartial. Two products looking the same versus infringement of a design are two very different things. And M&M's entire history with Jeep will be looked at and every other automotive design of theirs will weigh in their favour.

The reason I quoted the recent article above on yoga is to show our readers that the West bends over to create IP laws that allow them to run beserk at the cost of the third world. Sadly the Govt of India has been too slow off the block for 25 years in protecting our traditional tribal knowledge in health, agriculture, forestery etc. FCA isn't a babe in the woods nor are they holier than thou. If the Australian Court rules in FCAs favour then M&M must comply at least in that market. Till then innocent, at least in law, till proven guilty.

PS: I have no financial or emotional link to either company

[DicKy]

Voted No.

Jeep is free to sue Mahindra overseas, but not in India. Mahindra is the reason why the the jeep generic name was kept alive in India. Not being jingoistic, far from it I actually don't like our Indian auto scene. While we liberalised in the early 90s, we actually started having a proper market only by the early 2000s.

Mahindra itself wanted to distance and keep away from the jeep days. That is until Behram sir's parts bin 1st gen Thar exceeded their sales expectations. Quoting myself from the Thar launch thread.

. Let us zoom out a bit. All the other SUVs/ off-roaders had almost half a century for various generations and iterations to shake out the jeep clone past and markets to sell them. In India, less said the better about our lost years thanks to license raj.
In fact, it was only with the Indica, that we seriously started making our own stuff.

IMHO, if the new Thar is a great success and becomes a mainstream purchase, (jeepers don't flame me) by the time the 3rd gen Thar comes out, am sure it would have an individual styling and image. First step in that direction is the plethora of Thar badges, names all over the vehicle. They want the Thar brand to build, not the jeep shape.

Right now, Mahindra wants it to connect with their old jeeps, hence a modernised take on jeep styling. Now there isn't much leeway in modernising a jeep design, without it looking like a Wrangler. Evolutionary design.

If they had simply made a crossover copied directly from something like the Compass, I would call BS

Am sure Mahindra has realised they need to have a cohesive design language. Setting up a design studio in Europe and going on a designer hiring spree are the first steps. When the third gen Thar comes, maybe after a decade, am sure it will have an independent design language. Mahindra has established the Thar brand now. The present gen Thar was the awkward connection between the old jeep legacy and the future Mahindras. There is only so much you could evolve a jeep design. Am pretty sure except for the square headlights in the 80s, a lay person couldn't differentiate all the CJs, TJs, JKs, JLs.

Only natural for Jeep to feel threatened. Unlike Mercedes that could turn a blind eye to the Jimny and all the aftermarket G class convertion kits, the lifestyle image is all that Jeep has got. For all their xxx trail capabilities, they are the butt of jokes in places like West Asia, Africa, Australia. Maybe not in a BBC documentaries showing Defenders, but all other wildlife safari videos shows the Bolero pik-up rubbing shoulders with the J70s. So a Thar in foreign markets is really a threat to Jeep.

[RT13]

It’s such an eye-watering ripoff when frankly there was no reason whatsoever for it to be. They own Pininfarina and have managed fairly differentiated design languages from the Scorpio to the XUV to the Marazzo. It seems bizarre that they would do this and frankly IMO they need to get whacked for it. What’s worse is that gawdawful video with the designer talking about how inspired the design process was. Puhleese!

Perhaps Pratap Bose can help them avoid such crap in the future, given the wonderful (and original) designs he helped Tata produce over the last few years.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by indian21r

This is taking it to the next level. No wonder FCA is feeling threatened

Seriously though, is the general public not able to differentiate Thar from the Wrangler. Considering they all share the same DNA possibility of looking similar is always there.

I just wish Mahindra was mindful when taking the inspiration.

To add insult to injury, have a look at Jeep grille (after market accessory) for new Thar. This was available even before the official launch. I spotted many new Thar in Kerala and almost all had grille replaced with the Jeep type.

[Sirvoicar]

FCA will not sue M&M in India, they will just keep them busy with offshore legal action to protect their markets, as similar looks and Price difference can confuse customers abroad. The legal expenses and related uncertainty will tire M&M.
An Indian THAR buyer is not a Wrangler customer, he is knowingly buying a cheaper replica. FCA would be happy to keep the intentions of the Chinese and Indians in their own closed markets.