Alonso's Singapore GP win being investigated. EDIT: Renault is guilty!

fiery enzyme · 21st September 2009, 19:03

I don't get it guys. Are you saying a 2 year ban is not enough?

McLaren Rulez · 21st September 2009, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery enzyme

I don't get it guys. Are you saying a 2 year ban is not enough?

Its a suspended ban. Not a ban unless Renault commit another crime of similar proportion. As long as they keep their racing clean for the next two years, they're off scot free.

53BHP · 21st September 2009, 19:20

Junior should have been banned along with the rest and Renault handed a stiff fine and docked all their 2009 points

This verdict is not the best for motorsport. Nobody will be really unhappy to see FB go, but Pat Symonds was a fabulous engineer.

McLaren Rulez · 21st September 2009, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53BHP

Junior should have been banned along with the rest and Renault handed a stiff fine and docked all their 2009 points

This verdict is not the best for motorsport. Nobody will be really unhappy to see FB go, but Pat Symonds was a fabulous engineer.

Well Piquet did have immunity in return for him giving out the full story. But banning him is irrelevant IMO since I doubt if any team will ever want him.

As for Renault, I don't want them to face as stiff a penalty as you since that would make them quit. I am, however, disgusted at the fact that they have absolutely no penalty whatsover. Merely a suspended sentence which is nothing at all in my book. Heck, even McLaren are on a suspended sentence for liegate. So the lesson is that its okay to commit crimes as long as someone is fired and you don't do it again? That's crap logic.

14000rpm · 21st September 2009, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53BHP

This verdict is not the best for motorsport. Nobody will be really unhappy to see FB go, but Pat Symonds was a fabulous engineer.

for all the masterplanning he did, FB did get the right boot but the team, well, they gotta away for cheap.in comparison, McLaren were looted for a crime , ,which I admit was serious in itself, which didn't put the entire grid and the spectators at risk.
Now put McLaren in this perspective (Crashgate) and think of how they would be handled. It'd have been totally different.All I'm trying to highlight is the partial eyes of the FIA.

McLaren Rulez · 21st September 2009, 19:53

In fact, I'm just curious but why is Symonds given only five years? If Piquet's allegations are anything to go by, Symonds was the real mastermind. Sure he's a technical genius but that shouldn't be a factor in all this. It really looks like a vendetta against Briatore more than an attempt to punish a team for breaking the rules. Raw oppotunism by Max Mosely. Just like the huge fine on McLaren was a vendetta to get Ron Dennis out of there. Once Dennis was out, Macca got a suspended sentence too, didn't they? I see a lousy pattern here.

LandCruiser · 21st September 2009, 20:54

This is not a surprise as the FIA has not got anything right with anything so far. Bunch of Jokers.

KRf1 · 21st September 2009, 21:12

The suspended race ban

is a joke . Ridiculous . Renault should have been disqualified from last years championship if nothing else .

But there is a difference with this and what Mclaren did .
While Renault accepted at the earliest possiblity that they did this and chucked out Flavio and Pat Symonds , Mclaren at the time denied of the team having any knowledge and said that only Mike Coughlan knew of all the Ferrari data . Later after the Hungarian Gp when Alonso gave more information to the FIA through email , and as a result of this the whole Mclaren team and not just one engineer was found guilty as Ron Dennis had FIA believe , were the team suspended and a heavy fine imposed . The difference here is Renault fully accepted responsibility straightaway .

But as Max Mosely said Renault's crime was even worse than what Mclaren did , so the result of this WMSC hearing is shocking . There seems to be clear bias .

KRf1 · 21st September 2009, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandCruiser

This is not a surprise as the FIA has not got anything right with anything so far. Bunch of Jokers.

Totally agree with you ! Thank god Mad Max leaves after this year .

pypkmsrikanth · 22nd September 2009, 09:40

This is history repeating itself friends, during the Benetton fiasco would you believe Max sat with the lawyer representing Benetton and briefed him to plead guilty so that the FIA lawyers could not press charges and the punishment would be less for Benetton.

Imagine the judge sitting with the defendant and deciding how to run the case. It was a farce and certainly is a farce in this instance as well. Not to sound "I said so", I had remarked that Renault would be let off the moment Flavio and Symonds moved out of the team.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/int-l-...ml#post1487116

sgiitk · 22nd September 2009, 10:12

Proverbial knock on the knuckles, with a feather!

dhall_gagan · 22nd September 2009, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

In fact, I'm just curious but why is Symonds given only five years? If Piquet's allegations are anything to go by, Symonds was the real mastermind. Sure he's a technical genius but that shouldn't be a factor in all this. It really looks like a vendetta against Briatore more than an attempt to punish a team for breaking the rules. Raw oppotunism by Max Mosely. Just like the huge fine on McLaren was a vendetta to get Ron Dennis out of there. Once Dennis was out, Macca got a suspended sentence too, didn't they? I see a lousy pattern here.

I agree with you buddy.. I think Max Mosely is playing his own games as he wants to make sure noone who opposes him should be there in F1. If he is given a chance I am sure... there will be nothing left in this sport.
Symonds should had been punished equally. Life Ban. Both FB and symonds were equally responsible for it. But, losing both is a sad thing as both were awesome in their own respective trades.
As far as Piquet goes.. I dont think so his brilliant show along with this Crashgate thing he would find a place in any team till the time Mr. Piquet Sr. himself owns a team... LOL...

14000rpm · 22nd September 2009, 12:19

interestingly, spygate happened, Alonso was in the scene. and now crashgate happens and voila ,alonso is in the scene. how.
I can't believe that he never saw this planned crash happening.
matter of fact, renault was also accused of spygate by mcLaren in 2007 but no action was taken. can't see why this kind of bias by FIA.

McLaren Rulez · 22nd September 2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

matter of fact, renault was also accused of spygate by mcLaren in 2007 but no action was taken.

Renault were found guilty of that crime too, not by McLaren, but by the WMSC.

gomzi · 22nd September 2009, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Proverbial knock on the knuckles, with a feather!

This suspended race ban is an absolute joke! There are already rumors that Renault might withdraw from F1. If that happens, what will be the use of such a ban?

For me, now FIA credibility seems to be mud. This can only mean more bad publicity and tougher times for F1.

When will the FIA stop scoring own-goals?

21st September 2009, 19:03	#106
fiery enzyme BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: TN 01 Posts: 413 Thanked: 27 Times View My Garage	I don't get it guys. Are you saying a 2 year ban is not enough?
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 19:20	#108
53BHP BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 399 Thanked: 262 Times	Junior should have been banned along with the rest and Renault handed a stiff fine and docked all their 2009 points This verdict is not the best for motorsport. Nobody will be really unhappy to see FB go, but Pat Symonds was a fabulous engineer.
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 19:53	#111
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,390 Thanked: 5,107 Times	In fact, I'm just curious but why is Symonds given only five years? If Piquet's allegations are anything to go by, Symonds was the real mastermind. Sure he's a technical genius but that shouldn't be a factor in all this. It really looks like a vendetta against Briatore more than an attempt to punish a team for breaking the rules. Raw oppotunism by Max Mosely. Just like the huge fine on McLaren was a vendetta to get Ron Dennis out of there. Once Dennis was out, Macca got a suspended sentence too, didn't they? I see a lousy pattern here. Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 21st September 2009 at 19:55.
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 20:54	#112
LandCruiser BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chennai Posts: 712 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	This is not a surprise as the FIA has not got anything right with anything so far. Bunch of Jokers.
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 21:12	#113
KRf1 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NCR / BLR Posts: 339 Thanked: 3 Times	The suspended race ban is a joke . Ridiculous . Renault should have been disqualified from last years championship if nothing else . But there is a difference with this and what Mclaren did . While Renault accepted at the earliest possiblity that they did this and chucked out Flavio and Pat Symonds , Mclaren at the time denied of the team having any knowledge and said that only Mike Coughlan knew of all the Ferrari data . Later after the Hungarian Gp when Alonso gave more information to the FIA through email , and as a result of this the whole Mclaren team and not just one engineer was found guilty as Ron Dennis had FIA believe , were the team suspended and a heavy fine imposed . The difference here is Renault fully accepted responsibility straightaway . But as Max Mosely said Renault's crime was even worse than what Mclaren did , so the result of this WMSC hearing is shocking . There seems to be clear bias .
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 09:40	#115
pypkmsrikanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,124 Thanked: 283 Times View My Garage	This is history repeating itself friends, during the Benetton fiasco would you believe Max sat with the lawyer representing Benetton and briefed him to plead guilty so that the FIA lawyers could not press charges and the punishment would be less for Benetton. Imagine the judge sitting with the defendant and deciding how to run the case. It was a farce and certainly is a farce in this instance as well. Not to sound "I said so", I had remarked that Renault would be let off the moment Flavio and Symonds moved out of the team. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/int-l-...ml#post1487116
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 10:12	#116
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Proverbial knock on the knuckles, with a feather!
	() Thanks

22nd September 2009, 12:19	#118
14000rpm Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 2,342 Thanked: 5,564 Times View My Garage	interestingly, spygate happened, Alonso was in the scene. and now crashgate happens and voila ,alonso is in the scene. how. I can't believe that he never saw this planned crash happening. matter of fact, renault was also accused of spygate by mcLaren in 2007 but no action was taken. can't see why this kind of bias by FIA.
	() Thanks