[Boom Shiva]

What do you mean, "former MS fans" eh? Michael still rules. He just needs a better car.

Montoya's a primadonna. He doesn't have the mindset to consistently win races or championships.

[Dippy]

Originally Posted by aseem

Kimi is a old school driver like Michael, he can drive the car really fast and relies on his speed and strategy, he cant overtake.

You are actually trying to say Michael cant overtake ? Ya right gimme a break

Dippy

[Steeroid]

Ron should understand that in a championship, there is only one undisputed CHAMPION and there are no brownie points to be gained for 'nearly there'. The winner takes it all, the loser (which is what Ron's team is) should stand in their place and not try to pretend to be winners....

I've never liked Ron Dennis - he's been a perenniel cribber and always one to find faults with others, conveniently overlooking his own. With this, I think he's bettered his previous lows. He's even making his own drivers look bad with his comments, which is unfair.

[amitverma]

Originally Posted by aseem

Personally Montoya is way better than Kimi. He proved it in Brazil last year by defeating Kimi who had a faster car in his Williams. He didnt have the chance this year as Mc Laren were favoring Kimi in strategy. In Brazilian race Montoya had stated that he would win the race if Alonso is coming third and wont let Kimi go by. And thats what he did, convincingly. Kimi might be in a position to get the best out of Mc Laren in the begining of the year due to being in Mc Laren for a longer time, but Montoya has caught up. He is a far better overtaker than Kimi. You should have seen how Kimi couldnt overtake Alonso twice this year, when Montoya did it easily.
Kimi is a old school driver like Michael, he can drive the car really fast and relies on his speed and strategy, he cant overtake. Its boring to watch him overtake ppl in pit stops, contrary to that Montoya is fun to watch.
I know all you Kimi fans (former MS fans) would come down heavily on me. As its easy to become fan when you see someone is winning. However please wait for the last two races of the season to see who marks his authority in Mc Laren when strategy is unbiased. I can tip that reliability being the same, Montoya is going to win the last two races.
Please refrain from making personal remakrs, I am entitled to my opinions, just like you are entitled to yours!

who do u say cannot overtake....I cant believe my eyes right now...Michael Schumacher cannot overtake....who can???
you are judgin the 7 times champ over one failed season, and that too because his car was awful?

anyways, back to the topic.
I agree with Rtech here.
kimi might be quickest on the grid but it was Alonso who was consistent throughout the season. instead of blaming it on the backmarkers, the real guy to be blamed here is Montoya. if he had finished 2nd in the 2 races, Mclaren and Kimi atleast would have had a fighting chance to the Chinese Gp.
believe me i desp wanted Kimi to win the title. But Alonso just was the better man all the way this year. And Mclaren should understand that.

And about MS, try giving him the Mclaren Mercedes power and I am pretty darn sure he'll show u all what he is made of.
And Aseem try to portray yourself driving a Skoda 1.9TDI and the other guy driving the vRS. Wanna race to the finish line, dude?

[amitverma]

no personal attacks aseem....just my opinion...!

[Deeps]

Ron:"Mclaren has better drivers"
I totally agree. But its Alonso who has been the best THIS SEASON. Despite Kimi driving his best ever this season, IMO. Aseem, i totally agree with you that a lot of fans (read as glory hunters) have changed sides from Ferrari and MS to Mclaren and Kimi.

Ron: "WDC is just a badge. Kimi deserved it more than Alonso"
I disagree with with both statements. Alonso has done a better job than anyone else this season and he rightly deserves it.

Ron's comments do have a hint of sour grapes and i dont know why he said things like that. But i can understand why Haug would bash the backmarkers. As a Montoya/Mclaren fan, it was ****ing frustrating to watch Montoya being deprived of 16 points due to a backmarkers fault.

Admitted that Ron was talking crap, but why don't the Ferrari fans ever come out and admit when Brawn, Todt and Luca di ****head make sickening remarks about how Ferrari deserve better treatment because of their legacy or some crap like that?

[sridhar24]

I don't want to bring in the driver comparisons as the thread is about Ron's comments and also it will lead to never ending argument.

I think Mclaren itself messed every thing up this season with their car and even made some careless mistakes this season which has cost them WDC. Now there's no point in blaming backmarkers and speaking some crap.
I am a Ferrari fan and I agree even Ferrari also makes some stupid comments.
Personally I think Renault is the only team that worked really hard this season and they deserve to win the Constructors title too.

[papps]

hey if there is nayone to blame for Mclaren not winning the WDC it is them... Kimi drove well.... apart from that the cars were not reliable in the beggining of the season, engine changes resulting in kimi loosing grid positions... montoya messing it up twice.. and giving alonso the extra points and reducing kimi's chances of catchin up...

alonso has driven very well, waited for his opportunities and taken them as they came.... he has earned a well deserved WDC..... Congrats to him for that... and also being the youngest guy to ever do so......

i'm also a Mclaren and Kimi fan.. but this is plain stupid...... say we messed up and will get it next year why criticise someone...... its just lame......

[adya33]

hey guys ,

I am not defending Ron Dennis for what he said, but
don't forget Constructors Championship is still open

& this might be a part his plan

[Deeps]

Originally Posted by sridhar24

Personally I think Renault is the only team that worked really hard this season and they deserve to win the Constructors title too.

I disagree. I feel Mclaren and Toyota are the teams that have improved the most since last year and have done a better job than Renault. Thats why i don't think Renault deserve the WCC.

[mclaren1885]

guys if u remember the dog fight between kimi and MS during 2003 for the WDC,now thats what i call a real fight for the championship..this years tussle doesnt even come close to that one..if alonso had put up a similar fight as MS leading the championship had then i would have said alonso is great champion..
PS: pls note that the ferrari too had an advantage on the track just like the mclaren that kimi drove this year..

[raajks]

Apart from getting into the number game.
Alonso is a more comprehensive driver where he is able to stabilize and maintain a lead. Where as Kimi is very aggressive. He tends to push the machine to the limits. This has led to numerous errors causing him to lose valuable points on the championship.

I have observed more than 2 races where he spun out of the race cause he oversteered.

It is just not the pulsating nerves that makes you a great driver, its how you direct the pulse with intelligence that gets you to be a World Champion

_______________
Raaj KS

[merve_extreme]

ok now since this topic has moved over to who's the best,people what do u think in the next 10 years how many times do u think Alonso will become WC.i think not more than twice.

see Alonso is a good driver but he is not a superb driver.In 99" Eddie Irvine also came very close to become a WC,but do u think he is a excellent driver.no.the reason was he got a very fast car.if u see in F1 all the drivers are with 2-3% of each other.all alonso,kimi,monty,butly are between 90-95%.but to go from 95-100% is the mark of a champion,and in my opinion none of the above drivers have the calibre to achive than.

Acc to me the 100% drivers IN WC history(current era) are Michael Schumacher,Artyon Senna,Mika Hakennin and Alian Prost(he was too smart).all other drivers are nearly equal in performance meaning that if they have a fast car they can go fast and vice versa,no one has comprehensively outsmarted his team-mate(dont talk Alsonso-Fischella because Fischella has had the worst luck ever).

Alsonso won the championship but not comprehensively.he had good luck and a fast car when everyone else was busy visiting the sandtraps for one reason or the other.now we cannot blame Alosno for having good luck and a fast car in the early part of the season.but he would have been a better champion if he had raced to win a race rather than play safe to win the championship.it makes him look selfish.but Mclaren are annoyed about the luck Alonso got and we cannot help about such things.

and about MS not being able to overtake did anyone see the Brazilian GP were he slid past Fischella,that too on the curbs.it was like a rally racing move.he is still the best of the lot and will remain that way.call me whatever u like.thank you.

[adya33]

Alsonso won the championship but not comprehensively.he had good luck and a fast car when everyone else was busy visiting the sandtraps for one reason or the other.

Alonso did not had fast car.
Fast car is McLaren
Alonso had reliable car along with Alonso's smooth driving style
and Mercedes blowing up alternate weekends
It was first 6 races in the season that made Alonso champion

and about MS not being able to overtake did anyone see the Brazilian GP were he slid past Fischella,that too on the curbs.it was like a rally racing move.

& you consider it to be a great move?
I am not saying MS can't overtake but common that wasn't good move at all. It was overally agressive, desparate move

Alonso is a more comprehensive driver where he is able to stabilize and maintain a lead. Where as Kimi is very aggressive. He tends to push the machine to the limits. This has led to numerous errors causing him to lose valuable points on the championship.

If you are talking about this season, don't forget in second half Alonso had luxury of coming home in 3rd or 4th while Kimi needed to win anything & everything. Kimi had to push


& talking about stupid comments
look what Ross Brown is saying
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=99100

[Deeps]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Alsonso won the championship but not comprehensively.he had good luck and a fast car when everyone else was busy visiting the sandtraps for one reason or the other.now we cannot blame Alosno for having good luck and a fast car in the early part of the season.but he would have been a better champion if he had raced to win a race rather than play safe to win the championship.it makes him look selfish.

And how many WC would God Schumacher have won if the Ferraristone agreement did not exist? How many would he have won if he didn't have the fastest car? And how many would he have won if drivers like Kimi/Alonso/Montoya had equal equipment? How many would he have won if Rubens had been allowed to race him?

For a Schumacher fan to go about complaining that Alonso is an unworthy champion because he had too much luck shows a lack of knowledge and respect.

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

and about MS not being able to overtake did anyone see the Brazilian GP were he slid past Fischella,that too on the curbs.it was like a rally racing move.he is still the best of the lot and will remain that way.call me whatever u like.thank you.

And when Montoya pulls out an overtaking move like that on Schumacher, he is called an "unclassy driver"