[jai-uno-t]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Need i go on ?

i think so.....

FIA clarifies safety car policy Sniff Petrol

[scarlet.fever]

Alonso is the youngest double world champion in the history of F1 if I am not wrong.
And I guess he put MSC into retirement ?
He was able to win couple of races last year with a car that was not at its best really
You have to admit Alonso is one heck of a driver though I agree his behavior and attitude needs improvement.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by scarlet.fever

Alonso is the youngest double world champion in the history of F1 if I am not wrong.
And I guess he put MSC into retirement ?
He was able to win couple of races last year with a car that was not at its best really
You have to admit Alonso is one heck of a driver though I agree his behavior and attitude needs improvement.

Agree 100%. And he had almost won his third in 2007. Isn't his racing behaviour better than MSC?

[jraj]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Yeah,
But he will brake test a driver and cause him to crash ( Nurburgring 2003 ? )
Blackmail team boss if not given number one treatment
Park his car in the pitlane and spoil his teammate's qualifying run
Use other team's information got through illegal sources to try to gain advantage

Need i go on ?

hahahaha and lets also add he will do a "innocent" early pitstop just the lap before his teammate "CRASHES"

[Cyrus43]

Schumacher is the greatest driver till date and there is no denying it. Just becuase he went that one step further to make himself number 1 by all means possible doesnt mean his attitude his poor. It means he is more competitive. And yes, Alonso is fantastic, no doubt, and I wish he becomes more and more like MSC. That way it will be easier for me to support him.

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Yeah,
But he will brake test a driver and cause him to crash ( Nurburgring 2003 ? )
Blackmail team boss if not given number one treatment
Park his car in the pitlane and spoil his teammate's qualifying run
Use other team's information got through illegal sources to try to gain advantage

Need i go on ?

- who crashed @ Nurburgring 2003 ? check facts pls
- you're bringing up number one status? we'r talking about MS here!
- as i recall it was his crew that asked him to wait.. the lollipop was down
- the team engineers did that? alonso had no role in it whatsoever!
he came out with the truth in court!

Pls do go on (with relevant facts hopefully!)

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by Hatari

- who crashed @ Nurburgring 2003 ? check facts pls
- you're bringing up number one status? we'r talking about MS here!
- as i recall it was his crew that asked him to wait.. the lollipop was down
- the team engineers did that? alonso had no role in it whatsoever!
he came out with the truth in court!

Pls do go on (with relevant facts hopefully!)

Lets not get into war of words.

No denying fact, Schumi is a LEGEND, Alonso is NOT YET.

Lets discuss all this whenever Alonso achieves or gets close to Schumi.

We can get along with the topic rather than being on every F1 thread.

[jraj]

-Even when the go ahead was given by the lolipop man,Alonso had his own timer running and he waited some more time making sure Lewis wont get another hotlap.I just loved the way Ron Dennis threw away his headphones walking to Alonso's personal trainer and literaly dragging him along to the motorhome

-Team engineers did that??Without Alonso knowing \ having clue about it?Yeah right

[Newpunter]

Originally Posted by Hatari

- who crashed @ Nurburgring 2003 ? check facts pls
- you're bringing up number one status? we'r talking about MS here!
- as i recall it was his crew that asked him to wait.. the lollipop was down
- the team engineers did that? alonso had no role in it whatsoever!
he came out with the truth in court!

Pls do go on (with relevant facts hopefully!)

I didn't want to go off topic, but since you asked, here are the "facts".

1. Nurburgring 2003. Alonso braked 10 m earlier than the previous lap leading due to which Coulthard had to take avoiding action and crashed out of the race.

2. I don't recall MS ever blackmailing the team to get number one status. Alonso, however, after the quali in Hungary, went to Ron Dennis and blackmailed him to give him the number one status or he would go to the FIA and expose the Spygate. That is how the spygate issue was reopened after the FIA initially cleared Mclaren of any wrong doing.

3. The lollipop was not down. The team had given him the go ahead to leave but he waited till the time was just enough for him to get a quali lap and Lewis could not.

4. The team engineers did that no doubt. But Alonso did have a role in that. Check the FIA judgement if you have the time. There are mails between Alonso and Pedro De La Rosa (who was test driver at Mclaren then ) where they are talking about the info got from Nigel Stepny. It was with this info that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron Dennis. Alonso did not get punished for this coz Max Mosley offered complete immunity to the drivers so that he could get more proof to punish Mclaren.

All these are verifiable facts by the way. I haven't invented anything.

Edit : Sorry for going off topic. I don't want to ruin the discussion on the race with a completely unnecessary discussion. So I will just stop by saying that I respect Alonso's talent as a driver. He is a very talented guy and makes very few mistakes. However, I don't like a few things about him that's all .

[nitrous]

Yeah, And Lewis Hamilton is an angel.
Remember what happened just a year ago? :
Formula 1? - The Official F1? Website

Infact, this season, Alonso was given a drive through penalty for not giving up the position to Kubica(who eventually retired).

Those who've wronged have paid for their deeds.
Michael Schumacher gets to keep his 7 titles AFTER being duly penalized for his mistakes.

When you're living on the limits of the rule books, you tend to step on the wrong side quite often.
This is a common phenomenon. It's not just in Formula One. In Business. In war. In life.

Winning's winning, ain't it?

[Cyrus43]

Well said. It is just strategy that matters in the end. Whether in a Grand Prix, in a War or while running an Idli-Sambhar joint. Its all about how ruthless you are.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

I didn't want to go off topic, but since you asked, here are the "facts".

Thats a lot of 'Facts' really

1. Nurburgring 2003. Alonso braked 10 m earlier than the previous lap leading due to which Coulthard had to take avoiding action and crashed out of the race.

Are you serious!? Coulthard would never crash otherwise!?

About the incident that you posted. Please read this excerpt from www.grandprix.com

The incident between David Coulthard and Fernando Alonso in the closing laps of the European Grand Prix has caused a certain amount on controversy in Formula 1 circles because it is clear that, for whatever reason, Alonso braked around 10 meters earlier than expected. The Renault team said that this was because of tire problems, but Coulthard argued that the Spanish driver's braking points were inconsistent and in the end resulted in David having to swerve to avoid an impact. As a result he had an accident and had to retire from the race.

"I don't want to get involved in a childish argument about the rights or wrongs, but he did brake significantly earlier for the corner than on the previous lap," said Coulthard. "I had to take evasive action. The data will show that he braked early. I would be disappointed to think that it was deliberate and it is difficult to accuse someone of something. He was having problems and he was trying to be defensive. At the end of the day he is the one in the points and I am the silly one because I have gone off."

Wrong facts have been quoted here by you mate. Sorry!

2. I don't recall MS ever blackmailing the team to get number one status. Alonso, however, after the quali in Hungary, went to Ron Dennis and blackmailed him to give him the number one status or he would go to the FIA and expose the Spygate. That is how the spygate issue was reopened after the FIA initially cleared Mclaren of any wrong doing.

There are 2 parts to this.

1. Ron was not true to the FIA about the Spygate when they were caught the first time. I dont think he gave all the facts when the case was reopened as well. It was the drivers and key evidences from FIA inspection at Mclaren Tech center that got Mclaren on its knees. I have huge doubts about Ron's integrity.

2. Then Ron goes public about Alonso threatening him to expose the Spygate. I have my doubts. It sounds more like Ron wanted to do maximum damage to Alonso's name through the media.

3. The lollipop was not down. The team had given him the go ahead to leave but he waited till the time was just enough for him to get a quali lap and Lewis could not.

Thats just one side of the story. You missed the part where Lewis dint let Alonso do his flying lap before coming in for the final set of tires and Alonso's garage wanted to give it back to Lewis who screwed their strategy for the race. Remember this, the cars were running race fuel for Q3 and losing a flying lap in fresh tires and a lap's fuel is not going to help his chances. Both of them are not angels. They just deserved each other in 2007. The Hungary incident was a typical example of that.

The only different thing was the way Lewis was differently treated by the FIA where he almost got away with everything that he did in 2007. Including the spygate!

4. The team engineers did that no doubt. But Alonso did have a role in that. Check the FIA judgement if you have the time. There are mails between Alonso and Pedro De La Rosa (who was test driver at Mclaren then ) where they are talking about the info got from Nigel Stepny. It was with this info that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron Dennis. Alonso did not get punished for this coz Max Mosley offered complete immunity to the drivers so that he could get more proof to punish Mclaren.

So, the other driver by name Lewis was not aware of anything about things that were happening in the factory?

Ron did his best to make Alonso look bad and Alonso did the same to make Mclaren look bad. Mclaren's good times lol.

All these are verifiable facts by the way. I haven't invented anything.

The facts need to be mentioned completely mate. Not just half that could support your claim!

Edit : Sorry for going off topic. I don't want to ruin the discussion on the race with a completely unnecessary discussion. So I will just stop by saying that I respect Alonso's talent as a driver. He is a very talented guy and makes very few mistakes. However, I don't like a few things about him that's all .

I do agree with you, I hate(d) him for his attitude. But he is showing more maturity at Ferrari this year and he has been impressive as a driver as well.


How about this now?

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=392407&FS=F1

Quite possible, since his wheels were not locked up!

[suman]

Originally Posted by anachronix

I do agree with you, I hate(d) him for his attitude. But he is showing more maturity at Ferrari this year and he has been impressive as a driver as well.

And there, in a nutshell, you've summed it up for me as well. I hated him during his McLaren days in 2007 but in the last one year, I have started respecting him as a driver & as a very very cool & unflustered professional. This is what championship material is all about & he's demonstrating it 100%

[speedmiester]

I just read all the posts about the saints and the sinners.

F1 or for that matter motorsports is a cut throat competition and more importantly its a business. In business like in war one has to be ruthless to be on top.
Look at Aryton Senna. He was a best driver in the world and even then when the moment came he crashed into other drivers to get the championship. Senna had no remorse to his actions and he would do the same thing again because he wanted to win.

I strongly believe F1 was far better in the days of less rules and regulations. Now it sort of become a nanny sport.
Like Tony Fernandes and Branson proposed, I would like to see the blue flag rule banned. I would like to see the top drivers fight it out even with the back markers and not given a free pass. That would show the real driver's skills. If you have a superior car, then you would not have a hard time passing the back markers right, then why the blue flags?
People pay big money to watch a race and they would be definitely not be entertained if all they can see is a procession of cars from start to finish.

Bottom line I would like to see the top drivers fight it out on the track. That is why they are paid millions for.
The best driver will come out on top no matter what is thrown at him. I am not supporting or criticizing any drivers. I love motorsports so much that I hate to see people pointing fingers at it for controversies.
To be a world champion, you need to be mentally strong and be prepared for whatever other drivers and the conditions throw at you. Don't whine and moan about it.

This is why Aryton Senna was and is considered the best driver of them all.

May his soul rest in peace.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

I just read all the posts about the saints and the sinners.

This is why Aryton Senna was and is considered the best driver of them all.

May his soul rest in peace.

The last series of posts make a lot of sense.To be a winner,not just F1,you have to be ruthless,period

That brings us back to another topic here as mentioned by speedmiester.
In his days,Senna was as brutal as Michael Schumacher during his pre 2006 days.

Yet while people merrily launch into MS for his moves on 1996 etc,not much is said about Senna's moves ,for example,his moves over Prost on Suzuka in '89 or '90.

Honestly,I dont see any difference between the moves made by Senna and MS,infact Senna was more brutal since he even mentioned that he would take Prost out even before the raceday - one guy gets crucified again and again inspite of loosing all his points while the other even went on to keep his WDC,but we all rever him

Is it becoz - Senna is not amongst the living and died on the track.Had he survived the crash and lived today,would we be seeing Senna with a different mindset

Again,my intention is not to glorify \ crucify someone.Just to know the thoughts of others