[nileshch]

Hey, Sourav, would be great if you can post some photos of the new tires!

[bala80]

And a little review and comparison with apollo will help. Did you get any comments from VW on the upgrade during service?

[souravc]

Originally Posted by mikon

So the whole tail light assembly is 2091 !
Thats great, i'll change mine too. I dont know how it broke.

I think its a fab price for a whole assembly though would have preferred if only the casing was available . BTW, I know exactly how it happened - my car went for a polish and instead the tail light got polished off

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Hey, have you upgraded the tyres?

Yes , I have - Yokos C - 195 / 60 R 15

Originally Posted by nileshch

Hey, Sourav, would be great if you can post some photos of the new tires!

Nilesh , do you seriously want me to remove the dust off my camera ?

Originally Posted by bala80

And a little review and comparison with apollo will help. Did you get any comments from VW on the upgrade during service?

Yes, thats very much possible - just returned back from a 500 km drive to and from Shirdi . Max speed - 160 kmph , Avg speed - 56 kmph . Onward journey from 6:30 am to 10:45 a.m. while return journey was from 3 p.m. to 7:30 p.m.

Tyre noise is much less - from my drive experience I can categorise the experience on 3 kinds of surface .
1. Fine tar finish [ a bit soft top e.g. - new well finished sections of Mumbai - Nashik highway , Bangalore - Mysore highway (from what I remember of it from 2007 ] - The tyre noise is pretty silent even at high speeds ( yes , its silent ) , Apollos by comparison would rule the wavelengths around 90-100 kmph
2 . Concrete finish [ e.g. - NH4 expressway ] - Tyre noise becomes fairly audible from around 60-70 kmph but its never close to what one experiences in the Apollos . With the C drives I can hear the engine note at even high speeds , with Apollos thats not possible - the tyre noise rules over everything else in case of Acceleres .
3. Coarse tar finish [ e.g. - Eastern Express , Palm beach road ] - Tyre noise becomes mildly audible at speeds in excess of 80-90 kmph but again it plays second fiddle to the engine note, by comparison the Apollos are deafening at that speed.

The grip level during cornering is great , so far so good - had 2 testing incidents while driving where I had to slam the brakes when travelling at apprx 60 kmph . The braking was good . One of the hard braking incidents happened near Shirdi on a road strewn with loose pebbles , was able to stop without much fuss .

Haven't had a chance to test out the tyres on wet surface but i am very happy just going by dry surface performance . One of my friends has a Vento TDi which wears Apollos - planning to go on a back to back drive on same surface to do a comparo on the tyres , hopefully this weekend if he is available .

VW service didn't have any comment on the tyre size , 195 /60 is the most innocuous tyre upgrade

BTW some noticeable differences after the first service are :-
1. I specifically asked the service guys to do some magic to reduce the TDi clatter and they indeed did something to make a noticeable difference - I would encourage everyone to remember to request a reduction in the clatter
2. Torque delivery is insanely smooth

There has been no lightening of the clutch

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by souravc

1. I specifically asked the service guys to do some magic to reduce the TDi clatter and they indeed did something to make a noticeable difference - I would encourage everyone to remember to request a reduction in the clatter

Any Idea what they might have done to reduce the clatter. Is it another ECU upgrade?

What I hear Yoko C dives perform exceptionally well in wet. So that should be ideal for Indian conditions.
How is the ride quality? I think it must have improved a lot. Mainly because of better rubber & also because of increased sidewall.
But what I am most curious to know is will these tyres get punctured every now & then. And are the sidewall hard enough to handle abuse?

[souravc]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Any Idea what they might have done to reduce the clatter. Is it another ECU upgrade?

I don't know for sure but the SA mentioned that its got to do with the ECU

Originally Posted by oxyzen

How is the ride quality? I think it must have improved a lot. Mainly because of better rubber & also because of increased sidewall.
But what I am most curious to know is will these tyres get punctured every now & then. And are the sidewall hard enough to handle abuse?

Ride quality is good , as you correctly mentioned the extra rubber helps .
On the sidewall abuse , I have done a bit more than a 1000 km on these without any punctures . I hope that they are able to handle the abuse , else I would be jammed up since my daily commute is through some pathetic roads of Mumbai . Mark who owns Premji Tyre Plus , the shop where I got my Yokos from, assured me that the C drive's sidewalls are nothing to worry about - they are at par with the Michelins . He put the life of the tyres at 40K kms

[bala80]

Nicely summed up, thanks Souravc. Do you also get A-Drives in this spec? If I recollect right, difference between A and C drives is only around a couple of hundred rupees earlier, but I beleive C drives are more comfort oriented ones.

I think 2091 is actually cheap for a car of this class. I cannot think about any manufacturer who gives you the outer casing alone, ford tried this with child parts concept, but it is restricted only to certain parts. Also, 1000 for wheel alignment and balancing (including weights I suppose?) is a reasonable charge for the authorized service station. Again, you can get it done for a little less outside, but dont think there is a huge variation here.

From the inputs that I have gathered so far, looks like parts are very reasonably priced and the labour is little on the expensive side.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by souravc

Mark who owns Premji Tyre Plus , the shop where I got my Yokos from, assured me that the C drive's sidewalls are nothing to worry about - they are at par with the Michelins . He put the life of the tyres at 40K kms

As far as I know Michillin is notorious for soft sidewall and punctures are pretty common. Other that that they are awesome. So Michillin in not exactly a good benchmark.
I think it is where Bridgestone triumphs. There are numerous owners who are particularly happy with Turanza.

Any Idea, out of C dives and S drives, which is more robust?

[bala80]

Without a doubt, S Drives. They are the sporty type whereas the C drives is comfort based, S drives are known to be noisy though.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Any Idea, out of C dives and S drives, which is more robust?

[souravc]

Originally Posted by bala80

Nicely summed up, thanks Souravc. Do you also get A-Drives in this spec? If I recollect right, difference between A and C drives is only around a couple of hundred rupees earlier, but I beleive C drives are more comfort oriented ones.

C drives are the quietest out of A, C & S drives . It also gives the best compromise between dry and wet grip out of the 3 as per reviews.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

As far as I know Michillin is notorious for soft sidewall and punctures are pretty common. Other that that they are awesome. So Michillin in not exactly a good benchmark.
I think it is where Bridgestone triumphs. There are numerous owners who are particularly happy with Turanza.

Any Idea, out of C dives and S drives, which is more robust?

Tyre noise is reduced through design of grooves and the rubber compound used - further comfortable tyres which have better grips use "comparatively" softer compounds . Given this background , if you have a tyre which has lesser tyre noise and better grip then obviously the rubber compound would not be as hard as other which are not as quiet . Thats why Michelin and Yokos also would wear out faster than the Bridgestone's , so you may have to change tyres 5-10K km earlier than you would with Bridgestone's depending on the terrain you drive on. Here also if you are buying the Michelin with less rolling resistance be prepared to have a more braking distance.
Bridgestone's are definitely not going to be as quiet with as much grip as the Michelins or C drives - this is the feedback that i got from a Bridgestone dealer , have been at this tyre thingey for a few months now so did a reasonable bit of checking. My primary requirements were less tyre noise, comfortable ride and good grip - I can live without more fuel efficiency, less tyre life , etc. It boiled down to C drives or Michelin primacy and since I can live without the free Samsung mobile saving 3 K in the bargain I chose C drives

As bala pointed out S drives are performance tyres so are more robust though you will get higher noise levels and the ride would not be as comfy - these are meant for high BHP , big wheels, low profile - IMO it would have been an overkill for our usual sedan drive . S drives are more readily available in the market too , that's what I figured.

[Rock 'n' rollz]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

As far as I know Michillin is notorious for soft sidewall and punctures are pretty common. Other that that they are awesome. So Michillin in not exactly a good benchmark.

I have been using Michelin Primacy LC on my GP without any issues whatsoever for last 20000+ KMs on all sorts of 'common' terrains. On the contrary, with original GT3s, I had flat tire a couple of times and hence shifted to Michelin.
So not sure if we have sufficient data to back this claim of punctures being pretty common or for that matter soft sidewall creating issues for the owners. Any link to a comparative tire study etc would surely help.

Originally Posted by souravc

Here also if you are buying the Michelin with less rolling resistance be prepared to have a more braking distance.

Spot on.

My experience with Michelin Primacy LC (in comparison to GT3) so far has been:
1. They are silent (Downside: One can hear MJD clatter clearly)
2. Grip especially in wet weather is amazing
3. Less rolling resistance has resulted in more braking distance. The dealer had claimed that less rolling resistance would translate into better FE. Honestly speaking I didn't find any dramatic improvement in FE.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by souravc

As bala pointed out S drives are performance tyres so are more robust though you will get higher noise levels and the ride would not be as comfy - these are meant for high BHP , big wheels, low profile - IMO it would have been an overkill for our usual sedan drive .

Overkill? Even Getz with its sloppy handling wears those shoes. Infact if you loook at any yoko forums people are unanimously voting for the S drives. The C drives are a relatively new addition to make the portfolio complete. And like you said it more comfort oriented.
High BHP! The Vento diesel has enough torque. And that is all that matters.

BTW how much was these tyres for. And what did you do with the old ones?

Originally Posted by bala80

Without a doubt, S Drives. They are the sporty type whereas the C drives is comfort based, S drives are known to be noisy though.

Where I drive cant exactly be termed roads. So, although I appreciate the wet grip of the C drives I think it will be a better option to go for the S drives. I dont want the tyres to get damaged by any chance.

Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz

I have been using Michelin Primacy LC on my GP without any issues whatsoever for last 20000+ KMs on all sorts of 'common' terrains. On the contrary, with original GT3s, I had flat tire a couple of times and hence shifted to Michelin.
So not sure if we have sufficient data to back this claim of punctures being pretty common or for that matter soft sidewall creating issues for the owners. Any link to a comparative tire study etc would surely help.

Thats good news. I am contemplating Yoko S drives or Michelin PP2.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz

So not sure if we have sufficient data to back this claim of punctures being pretty common or for that matter soft sidewall creating issues for the owners. Any link to a comparative tire study etc would surely help.

More or less my experience too , I haven't found any study which says that.


My experience with Michelin Primacy LC (in comparison to GT3) so far has been:
1. They are silent (Downside: One can hear MJD clatter clearly)
2. Grip especially in wet weather is amazing
3. Less rolling resistance has resulted in more braking distance. The dealer had claimed that less rolling resistance would translate into better FE. Honestly speaking I didn't find any dramatic improvement in FE.

Thats what my tyre dealer told me too and he is a great fan of Michelins . You are correct , when the tyres go silent the engine becomes audible ( especially the TDi )

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Overkill? Even Getz with its sloppy handling wears those shoes. Infact if you loook at any yoko forums people are unanimously voting for the S drives. The C drives are a relatively new addition to make the portfolio complete. And like you said it more comfort oriented.
High BHP! The Vento diesel has enough torque. And that is all that matters.

BTW how much was these tyres for. And what did you do with the old ones?

Copy paste from Yokohama's website about the cars that the tyres are suited to :-
S Drives - Ideal for demanding drivers and performance cars like HSV, FPV, AMG, M Sport, Nissan GTR, WRX & Evo. Yokohama / OUR TYRES / S.drive
With due respect to the Vento's capabilities , I guess that there is still a long way to go to call it a performance car even if we assume that our highways would allow us to use the entire 250 N-m of torque. I remain unconvinced on why S drives would be needed on a Getz, there are good enough other options which are suited to its limited capabilities

My C drives cost me 4900/- each, sold off the old tyres , got around 2 K

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by souravc

Copy paste from Yokohama's website about the cars that the tyres are suited to :-S Drives - Ideal for demanding drivers and performance cars like HSV, FPV, AMG, M Sport, Nissan GTR, WRX & Evo. Yokohama / OUR TYRES / S.drive

It is nothing but a marketing gimmick.
If you search in the forum you will find a thread which insists to upgrade from S drives in case you are doing 160+. In that speed the tyres becomes hot and the braking deteriorates. S drives in GTR & EVO is simply death.

Originally Posted by souravc

With due respect to the Vento's capabilities , I guess that there is still a long way to go to call it a performance car even if we assume that our highways would allow us to use the entire 250 N-m of torque. I remain unconvinced on why S drives would be needed on a Getz, there are good enough other options which are suited to its limited capabilities.

Not even the BMW 320D is a performance car. But that does not mean S drives is too much for it to handle.
But you are right. The Vento is far from VW's best efforts. And incase you want to compare it with true performance cars, it takes 0-100 in 11 secs which is eternity. The nose bobs in undulating surface due to the heavy front and the the under-steer with the stock tyres is way too much. The suspension is under-damped. The center of gravity is in the sky & the ground clearance is measured in miles The steering does not connect. Then comes the sound. Which is throaty and gravelly and finally is a 4 door and a 5 seater. So it is not a performance car like a Lamborgini Gallardo or an Audi R8 or a Chevrolet Corvette.

But in India at a price of 10L it is best combination of Power and handling and that is why you bought it.

Now coming to the point if the Yoko S drives top out at 160, I think it is no way an overkill. And how is S drives an overkill. Just because it has more grip? Whats wrong in that?
Yes you will not get the sublime ride quality of the C drives nor its whispering abilities but it will still have its share of customers.

[bala80]

I'm a great fan of Michelins too, Yes, the general usable life of the tyres is less compared to the hard compound ones', but there are no other issues. I have used my earlier michelins for around 40k on all kind of road surfaces and never had any sidewall issues. Bridgestone turanzas is in the same league too and is a comfort based tyre.

2k/tyre or for all the 4 put together?

Originally Posted by souravc

Thats what my tyre dealer told me too and he is a great fan of Michelins .

My C drives cost me 4900/- each, sold off the old tyres , got around 2 K

[nileshch]

Originally Posted by souravc

As bala pointed out S drives are performance tyres so are more robust though you will get higher noise levels and the ride would not be as comfy - these are meant for high BHP , big wheels, low profile - IMO it would have been an overkill for our usual sedan drive.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Yes you will not get the sublime ride quality of the C drives nor its whispering abilities but it will still have its share of customers.

@oxyzen, I think that is what Sourav is pointing to. Usually, sedan drives are sedate ones and when you are carrying the family, all you need is comfort, more than high speed road grip. I too am inclined towards C drives when I decide to change tires, purely for the fact that they are quiet and comfort-oriented, while allowing the occasional spin on the road without losing grip.

I would have gone in for S drives if it were my second car, used mainly for my own driving pleasure. Such a time is too far in the distance, for me!