[991.2GT3]

I feel the base X7 30d DPE should satisfy all your requirements and comfortably fit your budget as well. Captain seats, new generation model & BMW driving dynamics are just icing on the cake. Also as you mentioned you've had a relatively niggle free ownership of the 5'er, you'll have better peace of mind staying in the brand.. just switch to regular tubeless tyres from RFT if you do go with BMW.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you- looking for a replacement/garage mate for my '12 525d. Will probably be going for the X540i (waiting for year end deals) or wait out for the M340i

[Sivacar]

Originally Posted by ruchiragrawal

Please do let me know your thoughts. Should I consider comparing between X7 and GLS, since my 'wants' are hard to be fulfilled by the GLEs and X5s? Any ownership experiences of any of these cars in small towns with bad roads and nearest dealership being at least 250 kms away?

Mercedes GLE

The 300D variant is perfect when it comes adequate performance to pull the car. The 2nd row sits a little lower than our preference. It misses big time on the 2nd row's seat adjustability with respect to reclining and suppleness of air suspension. I'm guessing that the adjustability of seats with the 400D would help alleviate this problem. Despite paying more, we would never get the E-active body control, hence taking the 400D feels more like a compromise than an upgrade; it is hard to justify the 16-lakh price difference for the 3L inline 6, air suspension and adjustable seats. I'm guessing the massive difference is also because of the "CBU" tax.

GLE400d Hip Hop Edition is actually a CBU, while the regular GLE400d is a CKD, which has air suspension and adjustable rear seats.

[karavadi143]

Based on my current ownership of an X series and given the requirements, I would suggest to keep away from the BMW. I would categorize the X series as a drivers cars and puts a grin on your face every time you see an open road with good road manners, but since this is Chauffeur driven, it really lacks in under thigh support, rear seats are not really plushy, rough suspension and the limited extended maintenance offered in India, I would suggest to look at other options. This said, since you already have a trusted relation with Toyota and based of a tier-2 town, I would suggest to upgrade to the new Fortuner or Innova with a better service reach and a better resale value, in case you decide to upgrade at a later point of time.

Volvo is a great option to own given the great dynamics and trusty engine, but selecting this would be completely dependent on the limited availability of spares and finding that trusted service center to solve an issue, if it does occur.

[ruchiragrawal]

Originally Posted by akash_v12

Out of the options you've mentioned, IMO the best for luxury & comfort will be the GLE or XC90. But the epitome for luxury SUVs currently is the BMW X7! With captain seats in the middle row and an extremely long wheelbase, there is a lot of space for passengers in the middle & third rows. In case you don't want to look at the Bimmer, also take a look at the GLS 400d. From the reviews, it seems like the most-well packaged Mercedes SUV and you definitely won't regret any of the above 2.

Thanks for the comment, akash_v12. The GLS is really good, but I feel that there are a lot of things which we're never going to use, but will have to pay for irrespective: for instance, the middle row infotainment control system, fairly useless and unreclinable third row (I tried sitting there with the middle seats completely moved to the front; I could barely put my feet down). To compare, I can get the same air suspension, 3L 6cyl engine in GLE 400d or GLE 450 Airmatic without the hassle of 3rd row, and without having to deal with the lengthier car for around 13 lakhs less. That's why I was trying to go with a no-compromise 5 seater at this range. The XC90 Inscription is a 7 seater, but with respect to price, it's comparable to the GLE 400d or X5 xline30d xdrive. And with the manually adjustable middle row seats and air suspension, it feels like a good value for money.

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Saw a GLS 400d yesterday, it was a test drive vehicle, the way the car pulled away from the signal was no joke for its heavy weight and the sound it generated in the process made everyone sitting on the benches on the Worli sea-face sit up and take notice as if it was some supercar accelerating hard! You could also consider the X7 if you are looking at the GLS.

If 5 seater is your requirement then I would suggest the X5 for the punch, driving thrill and not to forget the BMW's best reliability in the premium segment otherwise GLE is a worthy competitor but not as good as the X5 though.

With the GLE you get a 4 cyl engine whereas the X5 gives you 6 cyl standard at almost the same price, at this price point a 6 cyl is all-day everyday better!

Thanks for the suggestion, CEF_Beasts. But, as I mentioned, I'm thinking of going with the higher trim of GLE, i.e. the 400D, which has the same engine and air suspension as the GLS. Moreover, I'd prefer our driver not to feel 'spirited' while driving us around haha. I get your point though.

Originally Posted by Lowflyer23

The BMW X7 and Mercedes GLS are the only cars which will offer you proper upgrade in terms of comfort and space. Also do take a look at the Land Rover Discovery, it's spacious and has a very good ride too.

Thanks for the suggestion, Lowflyer23. I'm skeptical of JLR products, since, first, the dealer I talked to wasn't too keen on offering me a testdrive of the RR Sport when I asked him, instead he suggested I have a look at the brochure and then decide (which is too foolish to be naive). Secondly, every seasoned BHPian here and most reviewers online have had an apprehension towards reliability and maintenance of JLR cars; if so many people are saying this, then there has to be some truth behind it, and I'm not too keen on finding it out the hard way. Finally, in my personal opinion, they seem a bit underclassed when compared vis-a-vis price-wise with German counterparts. I'm sure there are people who love JLR SUVs, but I'm not one of them. My father is one, and is quite infatuated with the Defender 110. But after seeing the videos of the interior, he thought that it'd be wiser to go with a luxurious car for my grandfather, and perhaps, further down the road, can consider a rugged one for himself.

Originally Posted by sirjokhi

As your cars are going to be chauffeur driven, I would suggest XC90. Someone mentioned that it's too old. They are right but you won't be lacking anything on the technology term. Car comes feature loaded. Though the ride on low speeds is a bit harsh, the suspension plants out everything at highway speeds. Also maintenance will be considerably cheaper than the rivals. Though you can get extended warranty options in all of them, they don't come cheap. Overall I would trust Volvo more than the germans in terms of reliability. Having owned Mercedes in the past and having a very bitter experience, I have moved on to Volvo. Nothing to complain about so far. The service cost is way way cheaper than Mercedes. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Thanks for the input, sirjokhi. I wasn't aware of the maintenance costs of Volvos as compared to German cars. If this is really the scenario, then it tips quite a lot of things in XC90's favour, since my grandfather likes to see all the expenditures on our cars. And then he always complains about how costly it is to maintain the BMW with respect to Fortuner (I know there's no apple to apple comparison, but still, since he's the eldest, nobody wants to cross him). My father tries to hide the receipts and get the service done discreetly every time haha. I'm glad to know you were able to give me a comparison after owning both. May I ask which Volvo and Mercedes are you talking about?

[sirjokhi]

Thanks for the input, sirjokhi. I wasn't aware of the maintenance costs of Volvos as compared to German cars. If this is really the scenario, then it tips quite a lot of things in XC90's favour, since my grandfather likes to see all the expenditures on our cars. And then he always complains about how costly it is to maintain the BMW with respect to Fortuner (I know there's no apple to apple comparison, but still, since he's the eldest, nobody wants to cross him). My father tries to hide the receipts and get the service done discreetly every time haha. I'm glad to know you were able to give me a comparison after owning both. May I ask which Volvo and Mercedes are you talking about?[/quote]


I owned a 2012 ML250 here. I also owned a 2011 C200. Trust me, I have never seen the service cost below 40k. I own a Volvo XC60 (New one) and a V40 as well. Normal oil change and service cost is below 20k usually. With brake pads and everything, it goes around 30k. The same service for mercedes used to be around 1 Lakh INR as far as I remember. I am not very sure about the Mercedes maintenance costs provided above but I am a 100 percent sure Volvo is much much cheaper to maintain. I have had almost no problems so far with my XC60. The automatic tailgate had a malfunction last month. My car is out of warranty and the replacement costed 80 odd thousand. Volvo replaced it free of cost under goodwill. I can assure you Volvo maintenance costs are well below the Germans. I am sure a lot of people here will agree on the same. Please let me know if you need further assistance.
P.S. I have had a very bad experience with Mercedes India on corporate level as well. They might have changed by now but still I can't go back to the brand after the way they treated us. I don't have anything against Mercedes. Just sharing my experience

[ruchiragrawal]

Originally Posted by Shanky_1002

Since you're looking to replace your Fortuner '13 model, you may want to look at the BS6 Fortuner 4x2 AT as well, your father would want to drive one if need be, your grandfather should be reasonably comfortable with the ingress and the high seating posture, robust and abuse friendly build quality for those bad roads backed by Toyota's reliability and extensive service network for a hassle free long term ownership. If the need is purely for a chauffer driven car Kia Carnival and Toyota Vellfire would be an apt choice. The $$ you save in here can get another swanky set of wheels for yourself. You already have a sweet German ride at home, I would say get a German/Luxury SUV when you're looking to replace your 520D.

Hey thanks for the suggestion, Shanky_1002! My grandfather has some trouble climbing in the Fortuner, and we're thinking of getting something different. Since my father does drive the car occasionally, getting a Vellfire doesn't seem like the right choice (I put myself in my father's shoes, and then I thought, if I were to spend 1 cr on a car, I'd want to drive it without feeling like a chauffeur too lol). Whenever I think of the Vellfire, I think that, a decent Innova with the DC treatment would work just as elegantly. The Carnival Limo is drool-worthy, but again, it feels better as a replacement for Innova rather than a luxurious upgrade from Fortuner.

Originally Posted by Catamaran

I think I can add my 2 cents for this thread, as I currently own both BMW X5 35i (F15 version) and a 2017 Volvo XC 90 T6 Momentum, here in Dubai. Both are petrol cars and therefore I cannot compare on the diesel engine performance. I can make a quick comparison of other things based on my user experience:

Ride - Volvo on 19 inchers is more supple and better than BMW (20" wheels).
Handling and comfort - Volvo is a better handler and feels more car like to drive. But I think the latest generation X5 handles better than my F15.
Big car feel - BMW (F15) feels much more bigger car to drive than the Volvo which feels more like driving a large sedan.
Snob Value - BMW any day.
Features / value for money - Volvo.
Rear seats and Passenger space - Slightly better on Volvo, reclining 2nd row is an advantage. Also in the Volvo we sit slightly higher in the 2nd row seat than in the X5, so more thigh support compared to X5. The X5 gives a slightly knee up position for 6 feet and above passengers.
Third row seats - Very usable in Volvo, My X5 does not have third row seats.
Driver feel - BMW feels more like an SUV with a more commanding drive, and a driving enthusiast will like the X5 more. But for a normal driver Volvo is the easier car to drive. My wife picks the Volvo any day and compares X5 to be more 'truck like' to drive.
Boot space with only two rows - Volvo. Even with three rows up, Volvo has the boot space of a small hatchback, really useful.
Fit and finish - Its a tie here, both are good.
Cabin ambience - Volvo interior is a nice place to be in, although the 2020 X5 is equally good. (My F15 X5 interiors looks dull and ancient).
Engine sound inside Cabin - More quieter cabin in Volvo, but I love the sound of the BMW 3 Liter inline 6 when revved. Volvo 2L sounds really like a 4 cylinder and I hate it. (I am comparing petrol engines though)
ICE - In my case the X5 ICE is better. However for the Inscription model you have the Bowers & Wilkins system which is one of the best in the market.

In a nutshell - I like driving the X5 for long highway runs and the XC 90 for city drives as it is the easier car to drive with lighter steering. My family likes to travel in the XC 90 more than the X5 as overall comfort is better in the XC 90. My wife likes to drive the XC 90. Thus you can make a conclusion on how we see it. Again These are strictly my views and may change person to person. Not much experience with the MERC though. I have test driven the latest generation 2020 GLE and 2020 X5 and I liked driving the X5 more.

Hope this helps.

So aptly summarised, Catamaran! I think we're gonna lean with the car which gives more comfort than a better driving experience (And you've made it quite easy really). I gave up on choosing performance over comfort when, after quite a long time, I came here and drove the 520D on our roads. I cry every time when the suspension bottoms out. It honestly feels terrible to be unable to use a car because of conditions that are out of your control!

Originally Posted by M.Dua

Coming from owning a S60 I can vouch for the comfort and safety Volvo brings in, situation for spares and parts has drastically improved and I have never been in a situation for delay in any part replacement, it is reliable also since I have not really got any part replaced other than an EGR on cost in last 5 years , other than that an accidental repair with Head light and bumper replacement took about 10 days including the Insurance process which is only fair ( my friends Evoque is in Service Centre for last 20 days for stolen OVRM's replacement and has been asked to wait another 2 weeks).

Issues with Volvo:
1. After Sales support from Volvo India is horrible, they just do not reply as if they do not exist. So if something goes Kaput, expecting Goodwill replacement will be a 2 month process with no line of sight on when an answer can be expected.
2. Resale is a nightmare, buy it only if you are really committed for a long term ownership, have not really come across someone who has regretted buying these machines, though it is hard to make out if it is because of super low resale that people tend to keep it longer. We have it for last 5 years( getting 25% of Purchase Price today) and i will keep it for another 4 years since I am based out of Delhi and it will max out the useful life.
3. Service station experience is poor compared to Merc & BMW, I mean visiting a Silver Arrow Service Centre in Delhi and Swede Auto in Gurgaon can be easily compared to having tea at a 5 star and having a roadside tea, but in my experience the service of my S60 is 50% cheaper than that of a Merc E Class/ 5 series.

Same apprehension, M.Dua! You've succinctly mentioned everything I was afraid of with Volvo India. Fun fact: my father loves safety and practicality much more than luxury. So, when we were shopping around for our first luxury sedan, he had finalized the S60 (in 2012). But at that time, Volvo was fairly new in India, and it didn't offer a lot of things even as an optional extra in India; and hence, dejected, my father got the 520D as it felt more VFM. This time, the situations are not the same as before, and luckily Volvo has a come a long way, but it is stories like yours which make us feel that, it may just not be worth buying trouble, when there are better options. It's kind of a mixed feeling. We value safety much more than anything else, but if the other cars offer comparable safety, then it only feels natural to go with a car which offers more practical luxury.

[panamera13]

Originally Posted by ruchiragrawal

We are chauffer driven everytime, so driving dynamics seldom come into picture.

Surprise your grandfather with Range Rover with rear executive seats; I don't think he'll complain much.

[ruchiragrawal]

Originally Posted by 991.2GT3

I feel the base X7 30d DPE should satisfy all your requirements and comfortably fit your budget as well. Captain seats, new generation model & BMW driving dynamics are just icing on the cake. Also as you mentioned you've had a relatively niggle free ownership of the 5'er, you'll have better peace of mind staying in the brand.. just switch to regular tubeless tyres from RFT if you do go with BMW.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you- looking for a replacement/garage mate for my '12 525d. Will probably be going for the X540i (waiting for year end deals) or wait out for the M340i

I'm leaning towards the X7 30d DPE myself. I would still want to compare it with the GLE 400d side by side, since I really feel like getting a 5-seater. RFTs sound nice to a person who's a noob (like me, 7 years ago) until maturity and reality hit hard.

My F10 520D's engine seems to be unusually reliable. And hence I feel like keeping it for myself, instead of selling it for the price of an Ecosport. I plan on trying to get some custom maps and explore what the tuning and aftermarket community has to offer for it in India, and drive it till it's junk!

Originally Posted by Sivacar

Mercedes GLE

GLE400d Hip Hop Edition is actually a CBU, while the regular GLE400d is a CKD, which has air suspension and adjustable rear seats.

Merc salesmen keep on saying that the regular 400D and 450 for GLE is a CBU, and that they've stopped selling the Hip Hop version. That was one of the reasons why they mentioned that it was tough to get a test drive for the 400d and the 450, since they're usually bought on order-basis, and also that my regional dealer hasn't sold a single one yet. I'll try and verify again; maybe it being a CKD would then completely win me over on the "me not willing to pay extra just because it's a CBU" thing haha

[Sivacar]

The GLE450 and the GLE400d are CKDs.
I am sure about it sir.

Hope the following link should clarify it.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...80-lakh-417484

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by ruchiragrawal

Merc salesmen keep on saying that the regular 400D and 450 for GLE is a CBU, and that they've stopped selling the Hip Hop version.

Originally Posted by Sivacar

The GLE450 and the GLE400d are CKDs.
I am sure about it sir.

Both the vehicles are in high demand in overseas market. That can explain the short supplies in India or this is indeed because of some technical reasons, I am not aware at this time. There was a thread about engine issue on a new GLE. Yes, both 6 Cylinders are now CKD but devoid of many features and not just the hip-hop dance.

"me not willing to pay extra just because it's a CBU"

On the contrary, I have found quality, choice of material on the CBU better over CKD. Can be a placebo as well but in my opinion CBU can be totally worth whenever priced competitively, which is not always the case though. I keep on looking for such CBU deals and somehow manage

If we consider 100% customs and 50% GST, I find prices of CBU from MB very competitive. To give you a comparison, Lexus retails LX570 at 115K-CAD, a car that carries a wait time of around 2-3 months in Canada, Lexus has priced the same car with some missing features at 2,35 Cr. Now compare this with a G-Wagon, which retails at 250K-CAD and carries a wait time of 2 Year Plus, MB India has priced it at 2,3 Cr and you can get delivery as fast as couple of months.

Coming to your requirements, I have suggested you to consider Vellfire. Don't discount this just because it looks like a Van in pictures. Take test drive and let your Dad drive. I am positive, it will bring smiles to both, driver as well passengers in the rear. If that looks basic to you, go ahead with X7. With current uncertainty over the technical issues on the 6 cylinder MB models, it's better to leave unless you can wait bit longer.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by ruchiragrawal

Thanks for the suggestion, Lowflyer23. I'm skeptical of JLR products, since, first, the dealer I talked to wasn't too keen on offering me a testdrive of the RR Sport when I asked him, instead he suggested I have a look at the brochure and then decide (which is too foolish to be naive). Secondly, every seasoned BHPian here and most reviewers online have had an apprehension towards reliability and maintenance of JLR cars; if so many people are saying this, then there has to be some truth behind it, and I'm not too keen on finding it out the hard way. Finally, in my personal opinion, they seem a bit underclassed when compared vis-a-vis price-wise with German counterparts. I'm sure there are people who love JLR SUVs, but I'm not one of them. My father is one, and is quite infatuated with the Defender 110. But after seeing the videos of the interior, he thought that it'd be wiser to go with a luxurious car for my grandfather, and perhaps, further down the road, can consider a rugged one for himself.

If you can wait till next year there is a slight chance you might able to lay your hands on the next generation Toyota LC. But it could be delayed for our market so another good option would be to consider LC 200 current generation when it is relaunched in India with a BS6 compliant engine. If you can manage to get some discounts on it, then there would be no car at the price point having all traits like reliability, comfort and road presence of the LC 200. Happy shopping!



Lowflyer23

[ruchiragrawal]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

There was a thread about engine issue on a new GLE. Yes, both 6 Cylinders are now CKD but devoid of many features and not just the hip-hop dance.

Thanks for pointing me to that thread, Turbanator. That thread was really scary, and kinda goes to show how the GLE 450 is the total opposite of what I was looking for in a good replacement to my Fortuner.

You mentioned that it is devoid of other features than hiphop dance. I think one is the E-active body control. Could you mention some others as well please?

Originally Posted by Turbanator

On the contrary, I have found quality, choice of material on the CBU better over CKD. Can be a placebo as well but in my opinion CBU can be totally worth whenever priced competitively, which is not always the case though. I keep on looking for such CBU deals and somehow manage

If we consider 100% customs and 50% GST, I find prices of CBU from MB very competitive. To give you a comparison, Lexus retails LX570 at 115K-CAD, a car that carries a wait time of around 2-3 months in Canada, Lexus has priced the same car with some missing features at 2,35 Cr. Now compare this with a G-Wagon, which retails at 250K-CAD and carries a wait time of 2 Year Plus, MB India has priced it at 2,3 Cr and you can get delivery as fast as couple of months.

This is quite an interesting insight. This is really helpful in changing my perspective towards CBUs. The key, it seems, is to keep on looking for good CBU deals.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Coming to your requirements, I have suggested you to consider Vellfire. Don't discount this just because it looks like a Van in pictures. Take test drive and let your Dad drive. I am positive, it will bring smiles to both, driver as well passengers in the rear. If that looks basic to you, go ahead with X7. With current uncertainty over the technical issues on the 6 cylinder MB models, it's better to leave unless you can wait bit longer.

I'll consider the vellfire again. Let's see how it goes.

Originally Posted by Lowflyer23

If you can manage to get some discounts on it, then there would be no car at the price point having all traits like reliability, comfort and road presence of the LC 200. Happy shopping!
Lowflyer23

I'll try to look around for LCs. Didn't really look into them yet. I think the ingress/egress wouldn't be as comfortable.

[Merc_Freak]

If you can stretch your budget , I would recommend taking a look at the Lexus LX as it fulfills the requirements that you’re looking for (comfort,reliability etc). My Uncle bought an ES last year and he has had 0 problems so far. Alternatively, as others have pointed out, you can also go for the X7.

[.HEM]

If I was in your situation, XC90 would have already found its place in my parking

If you consider buying a car mainly for the elders in the family, I would suggest Mercedes GLE! You can ask Mercedes dealers here to offer a chauffeured test drive for your parents and grandparents. So that your family will get to feel the car in flesh, It's worth giving it a try.

[devsoftech]

My answer will be biased but allow me to justify why I ended up picking GLE350 over X5, XC90, Q7 and Cayenne. The ergonomics and MBUX is spot on. Being involved with UX myself, I appreciate the design decisions executed on GLE350. In my past 1+ years of ownership, I have never felt that I missed anything in this car. Mine is a 7 seater package but I mostly tow my boat and RV with this car. I did some DIYs like nerf running boards and stealth hitch system. The only pain point is the Extended MO RFT bridgestone alenzas. This is a luxury workhorse. The cabin refinement is leagues ahead of Volvo and Q7. From acceleration to braking, window rolloups, everything is executed with refinement and you feel the difference everyday. I had a 2018 Jetta and sitting on Q7 felt like extension of Jetta. Volvo was good with braking and suspension but interiors very really cheap. Glass area in GLE is also worth mentioning. I did wiring for trailer on my own and mercedes was easy to work on. They have kept their promise and I have been delivered two over the air firmware updates for MBUX. Heads up display has been very well thought of. Massage programmes in seat are not just gimmicks. I have done long hours without frequent breaks and have nothing to complain. Airmatic and auto leveling are very useful for me when I am towing, the tongue weight addition on the hitch is very well compensated for. Being one of the earliest adopter in 2029, I had my share of glitches, but now it's been running pretty stable. I am sure mercedes has learned from our bad experiences and should have fixed them for future releases. I will be happy to share ownership experience if it helps your case.