[ruchiragrawal]

Hello community!

This is my first post as a TBHP newbie! I would really appreciate your inputs in helping me choose a nice, comfortable and reliable 5 (preferably) seater SUV.

I haven't seen a thread comparing the GLE with the X5 and the competition (in the 80+lakh ex-showroom range) , hence I started a new thread.

We're looking to replace our trusty ol' 2013 Fortuner 4x2, which has around 2,20,xxx on the odometer from 15th June 2013 till today. That car is a tank, and everyone loves its middle row seating comfort.

I have some cars in mind, and we're flexible on the budget, and are willing to spend the right amount for a good car. Some things that we appreciate about our cars are their value-for-money quotient, comfort and reliability. We live in a very small town of Maharashtra called as Dhule, and hence, we've got relatively terrible roads. Our 2012 BMW 520D struggles to make trips on these roads, and hence, has subsequently been driven on 70,xxx miles when bought new since 2th February 2013.

We are chauffer driven everytime, so driving dynamics seldom come into picture. We don't do offroad trips, but our highways are no less than offroads either. Primary audience for this car would be my grandfather (who hates the 520D's buckets and loves the Innova for its front and middle row seating height and its ease of getting in and out), my father (who loves practicality, reliability and butchness of Fortuner) and my Mom (who loves the adjustability of middle row seat of Fortuner). I currently live in the US, and love my
manual 2018 Subaru WRX.

I would prefer to go the CKD route, since the mere thought of paying extra just because it is completely built outside is a very hard pill to digest. No particular preference on diesel or petrol; we would want the one which is more reliable. We'd also prefer a car which can live for 7-8 years, since we like to buy one good car and then stick with it till it absolutely needs to be replaced (I loved the thread of TBHP (linked here) where they mentioned how a more expensive cars becomes cheaper if owned for a long time, I totally agree with it!)


Some cars under consideration are the 2020 Mercedes GLE 400d (I'm saddened for it being CBU), 2020 BMW X5 xline30d xDrive and the 2020 Volvo XC90 Inscription.

My current thoughts and apprehensions on them are as below.

Mercedes GLE

The 300D variant is perfect when it comes adequate performance to pull the car. The 2nd row sits a little lower than our preference. It misses big time on the 2nd row's seat adjustability with respect to reclining and suppleness of air suspension. I'm guessing that the adjustability of seats with the 400D would help alleviate this problem. Despite paying more, we would never get the E-active body control, hence taking the 400D feels more like a compromise than an upgrade; it is hard to justify the 16-lakh price difference for the 3L inline 6, air suspension and adjustable seats. I'm guessing the massive difference is also because of the "CBU" tax.

BMW X5

The X5 xline30D xDrive is good considering the points that it is a CKD (so no hesitation with respect to paying more) has air suspension, engine is able enough to take the weight of this car. What it loses is on the absolute lack of adjustable 2nd row seats, and its relatively upright sitting position there. The legspace also 'feels' a little less than GLE (despite both cars having roughly the same overall length (X5: 4922 mm and GLE 4924 mm) and wheel base (X5: 2975 mm and GLE: 2995 mm)). One major con about BMWs are their run-flat tires (disadvantages of living in a small town!). I am not hesitant to purchase another BMW, since, leaving some experiences, BMW has been pretty reliable overall.

Volvo XC90

The Volvo XC90 Inscription feels like the perfect SUV! Air suspension, adjustability of middle row seats, loads of safety features (a very big win) along with the refineness of the interior. However, I have heard tales of Volvo's lack of parts' availability and it depreciating harder than the other two cars. Also, the random engagement of brake assist (TBHP link here (Dangerous Volvo XC90 Inscription : Radar-based safety aids apply brakes at random!)) is a little less confidence inspiring. The third row is probably as good as that of a Fortuner or an Innova, so I am thinking that is practical enough to be used routinely. However, I've felt that the Volvo Indore and Pune's salesmen are probably the politest and most humble people I have seen out of the bunch.


I have only test driven the 2019 GLE 300D and 2020 GLS 400D yet. Merc people are unable to get their hands on the GLE 400D for me to test, so I don't feel very comfortable going with it. The reason why I don't feel like getting the GLS is because of the practically useless 3rd row seats, and excess of 2nd row entertainment electronics; I am afraid they'd become dysfunctional in 3 years' time and would be hefty to replace. The Merc salesman also mentioned that it would be considerably more maintenance-requiring vehicle, and its weight doesn't go in its favour of lasting long on bad roads either.

I will be getting the test drives of the remaining vehicles in the coming weeks.

I feel like Range Rover Sport is too overpriced, and I believe when TBHP members say they are unreliable, there has to be truth in it.

I wish Audi were still in the market. They are missing the Diwali sales in my opinion, because of the lack of their Euro6/BS6 engines in Q5 and Q7.


Please do let me know your thoughts. Should I consider comparing between X7 and GLS, since my 'wants' are hard to be fulfilled by the GLEs and X5s? Any ownership experiences of any of these cars in small towns with bad roads and nearest dealership being at least 250 kms away?

Best,
Ruchir

[ajmat]

Considering your situation and your grandfathers love of Toyota, you might want to consider a Lexus or a Land Cruiser. Otherwise, I would consider the Volvo. My friend has had one for 3 years, zero problems.

[Turbanator]

There are some reported issues in GLE and GLS, there was a stop sale on certain VIN as well. If rear seat comfort is your primary need, look no further than an X7. It’s the only car with captain seats in this segment and comes loaded with options. X5 is a strict No as the rear seat is horrible. You can’t even adjust the back angle. Whereas GLE and GLS both allows adjustments.

If you don’t like the X7 front or otherwise, I will choose either of GLE or GLS.

Maintenance of BMW is cheaper over Mercedes. You can also get extended warranties from BMW upto 6 years whereas MB india uses reliance or some other insurance for extended warranty. But MB India gives 3 year warranty which is better over 2 year warranty of BMW.

Range Rovers can best be avoided and XC90 is now too old. Toyota does no longer sell LC so the Vellfire is another option if you are ok with it’s look. It will be cheaper too and looks a little different from other cars.

[ArjunPadmakumar]

If you are not too keen on Brand image please do check out the Skoda Kodiaq, you wont be disappointed! . Not only is it way cheaper it achieves 95% of the cars you have shortlisted(which are fantastic in their own rights). It is under-powered in comparison but It wont matter since your car will be chauffeur driven most of the time. Happy shopping!

[asit.kulkarni93]

Hi

My maternal family happens to be from Dhule too. I frequently visit Dhule and am surprised you mentioned bad roads. Atleast the NH part around Dhule is pure bliss minus the speed breakers. Maybe you are referring to the internal roads.

Anyway I think you need to move above this segment and either consider the likes of GLS or wait for a while and pick up the Toyota Landcruiser. GLS is relatively vfm and the LC will give you proper peace of mind.

[sodapop]

I would seriously advise you to have a look at the Kia Carnival. Badge aside, it seems to be perfect for all of your requirements. Service also shouldn't really be a problem not being from a luxury brand. Also being an MPV, Ingress/Egress for your grandfather shouldn't be an issue as well. I remember GTO comparing it with the E class in terms of comfort. I usually don't advise the germans for our roads because the ride quality is tuned with respect to European roads,


You can also look at the Vellfire for the famed Toyota reliability and luxury but the low GC would definitely be a problem for the interior roads.

If I had to choose between the options you have currently shortlisted, it would be the GLE hands down since its a new product and you tend to keep cars for long periods of time.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by ArjunPadmakumar

If you are not too keen on Brand image please do check out the Skoda Kodiaq, you wont be disappointed! . Not only is it way cheaper it achieves 95% of the cars you have shortlisted(which are fantastic in their own rights). It is under-powered in comparison but It wont matter since your car will be chauffeur driven most of the time. Happy shopping!

The Kodiaq is great, but it certainly cannot be compared to the vehicles being spoken off here in terms of comfort, refinement, driving pleasure, tech and even brand value.

[ruchiragrawal]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Considering your situation and your grandfathers love of Toyota, you might want to consider a Lexus or a Land Cruiser. Otherwise, I would consider the Volvo. My friend has had one for 3 years, zero problems.

Thank you for the suggestion Ajmat! I really love the RX450hl that Lexus has to offer with its beautiful front grill!. It ticks all the right boxes as well. I just feel that it compares to the GLE in terms of luxury, but asks for GLS level prices (perhaps because it is CBU?). If I go for a 7 seater, then I would definitely keep the 450hl in consideration. Any opinions on depreciation with respect to the German rivals and any experience with respect to ease of maintenance/ parts availability?

Originally Posted by Turbanator

There are some reported issues in GLE and GLS, there was a stop sale on certain VIN as well. If rear seat comfort is your primary need, look no further than an X7. It’s the only car with captain seats in this segment and comes loaded with options. X5 is a strict No as the rear seat is horrible. You can’t even adjust the back angle. Whereas GLE and GLS both allows adjustments.

If you don’t like the X7 front or otherwise, I will choose either of GLE or GLS.

Maintenance of BMW is cheaper over Mercedes. You can also get extended warranties from BMW upto 6 years whereas MB india uses reliance or some other insurance for extended warranty. But MB India gives 3 year warranty which is better over 2 year warranty of BMW.

Range Rovers can best be avoided and XC90 is now too old. Toyota does no longer sell LC so the Vellfire is another option if you are ok with it’s look. It will be cheaper too and looks a little different from other cars.

Thanks for the suggestion, Turbanator. I wasn't aware of the stop-sale on the GLE and GLS. I'll check them out! Thanks!

X7 really does seem like the most logical choice here with the captain's seat trim. I'm okay with the grill (I'd plastidip it in matte black or something though).

Vellfire is nice, but an issue with it is, my father would never want to be in the driver's seat haha. It feels strictly like a chauffeur-driven car. I hadn't given a lot of thought to it. I'll still consider it again though. The comfort and luxury inside certainly seem the best. Might have to listen to the brain instead of heart with this one.

Originally Posted by ArjunPadmakumar

If you are not too keen on Brand image please do check out the Skoda Kodiaq, you wont be disappointed! . Not only is it way cheaper it achieves 95% of the cars you have shortlisted(which are fantastic in their own rights). It is under-powered in comparison but It wont matter since your car will be chauffeur driven most of the time. Happy shopping!

Thanks for the suggestion, ArjunPadmakumar! We've had bad experiences with our Octavia L&K long ago, and we're kinda still bitter about that. Maybe a test-drive would change that.

I'd love to save that money and perhaps get me a Macan or something haha

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Hi

My maternal family happens to be from Dhule too. I frequently visit Dhule and am surprised you mentioned bad roads. Atleast the NH part around Dhule is pure bliss minus the speed breakers. Maybe you are referring to the internal roads.

Anyway I think you need to move above this segment and either consider the likes of GLS or wait for a while and pick up the Toyota Landcruiser. GLS is relatively vfm and the LC will give you proper peace of mind.

Nice to know someone from TBHP knows Dhule haha. The belt from Nashik to Dhule has gotten really bad these last two years. You should visit now, especially after this rainy season to see how bad it has gotten (Please stop by for a cup of tea as well at our place!). It is certainly not for the German sedans.

I think I will take your suggestion and move up a class. Previously I had thought that ~ 1 cr would be a good range to get a comfortable, luxurious car and a proper replacement for a Fortuner, but I guess I stand corrected. It kinda hurts a lil.

Originally Posted by sodapop

I would seriously advise you to have a look at the Kia Carnival. Badge aside, it seems to be perfect for all of your requirements. Service also shouldn't really be a problem not being from a luxury brand. Also being an MPV, Ingress/Egress for your grandfather shouldn't be an issue as well. I remember GTO comparing it with the E class in terms of comfort. I usually don't advise the germans for our roads because the ride quality is tuned with respect to European roads,


You can also look at the Vellfire for the famed Toyota reliability and luxury but the low GC would definitely be a problem for the interior roads.

If I had to choose between the options you have currently shortlisted, it would be the GLE hands down since its a new product and you tend to keep cars for long periods of time.

Thanks for the suggestion, sodapop. The Carnvial and Gloster both seem really good cars and undebatably the best vfm. My grandfather personally is a big fan of Carnival after seeing it on TV ads. I think we will go with one as a replacement for our Innova, because my grandfather really wants it haha. My father really wants to give my grandfather a luxurious car (and hence he had gotten the 520D as a surprise for him) and my grandfather hates overspending on luxury. We're thinking of giving this car as a surprise as well, but let's see haha.

You mentioned an important point about the low gc of Vellfire, which I hadn't thought of before. I'll keep that in mind!

Your GLE suggestion is logical! But with the plethora of options suggested, I think I will have to seriously consider other cars as well.

[akash_v12]

Out of the options you've mentioned, IMO the best for luxury & comfort will be the GLE or XC90. But the epitome for luxury SUVs currently is the BMW X7! With captain seats in the middle row and an extremely long wheelbase, there is a lot of space for passengers in the middle & third rows. In case you don't want to look at the Bimmer, also take a look at the GLS 400d. From the reviews, it seems like the most-well packaged Mercedes SUV and you definitely won't regret any of the above 2.

[CEF_Beasts]

Saw a GLS 400d yesterday, it was a test drive vehicle, the way the car pulled away from the signal was no joke for its heavy weight and the sound it generated in the process made everyone sitting on the benches on the Worli sea-face sit up and take notice as if it was some supercar accelerating hard! You could also consider the X7 if you are looking at the GLS.

If 5 seater is your requirement then I would suggest the X5 for the punch, driving thrill and not to forget the BMW's best reliability in the premium segment otherwise GLE is a worthy competitor but not as good as the X5 though.

With the GLE you get a 4 cyl engine whereas the X5 gives you 6 cyl standard at almost the same price, at this price point a 6 cyl is all-day everyday better!

[Lowflyer23]

The BMW X7 and Mercedes GLS are the only cars which will offer you proper upgrade in terms of comfort and space. Also do take a look at the Land Rover Discovery, it's spacious and has a very good ride too.

[sirjokhi]

As your cars are going to be chauffeur driven, I would suggest XC90. Someone mentioned that it's too old. They are right but you won't be lacking anything on the technology term. Car comes feature loaded. Though the ride on low speeds is a bit harsh, the suspension plants out everything at highway speeds. Also maintenance will be considerably cheaper than the rivals. Though you can get extended warranty options in all of them, they don't come cheap. Overall I would trust Volvo more than the germans in terms of reliability. Having owned Mercedes in the past and having a very bitter experience, I have moved on to Volvo. Nothing to complain about so far. The service cost is way way cheaper than Mercedes. Hope this helps. Cheers.

[Shanky_1002]

Since you're looking to replace your Fortuner '13 model, you may want to look at the BS6 Fortuner 4x2 AT as well, your father would want to drive one if need be, your grandfather should be reasonably comfortable with the ingress and the high seating posture, robust and abuse friendly build quality for those bad roads backed by Toyota's reliability and extensive service network for a hassle free long term ownership. If the need is purely for a chauffer driven car Kia Carnival and Toyota Vellfire would be an apt choice. The $$ you save in here can get another swanky set of wheels for yourself. You already have a sweet German ride at home, I would say get a German/Luxury SUV when you're looking to replace your 520D.

[Catamaran]

I think I can add my 2 cents for this thread, as I currently own both BMW X5 35i (F15 version) and a 2017 Volvo XC 90 T6 Momentum, here in Dubai. Both are petrol cars and therefore I cannot compare on the diesel engine performance. I can make a quick comparison of other things based on my user experience:

Ride - Volvo on 19 inchers is more supple and better than BMW (20" wheels).
Handling and comfort - Volvo is a better handler and feels more car like to drive. But I think the latest generation X5 handles better than my F15.
Big car feel - BMW (F15) feels much more bigger car to drive than the Volvo which feels more like driving a large sedan.
Snob Value - BMW any day.
Features / value for money - Volvo.
Rear seats and Passenger space - Slightly better on Volvo, reclining 2nd row is an advantage. Also in the Volvo we sit slightly higher in the 2nd row seat than in the X5, so more thigh support compared to X5. The X5 gives a slightly knee up position for 6 feet and above passengers.
Third row seats - Very usable in Volvo, My X5 does not have third row seats.
Driver feel - BMW feels more like an SUV with a more commanding drive, and a driving enthusiast will like the X5 more. But for a normal driver Volvo is the easier car to drive. My wife picks the Volvo any day and compares X5 to be more 'truck like' to drive.
Boot space with only two rows - Volvo. Even with three rows up, Volvo has the boot space of a small hatchback, really useful.
Fit and finish - Its a tie here, both are good.
Cabin ambience - Volvo interior is a nice place to be in, although the 2020 X5 is equally good. (My F15 X5 interiors looks dull and ancient).
Engine sound inside Cabin - More quieter cabin in Volvo, but I love the sound of the BMW 3 Liter inline 6 when revved. Volvo 2L sounds really like a 4 cylinder and I hate it. (I am comparing petrol engines though)
ICE - In my case the X5 ICE is better. However for the Inscription model you have the Bowers & Wilkins system which is one of the best in the market.

In a nutshell - I like driving the X5 for long highway runs and the XC 90 for city drives as it is the easier car to drive with lighter steering. My family likes to travel in the XC 90 more than the X5 as overall comfort is better in the XC 90. My wife likes to drive the XC 90. Thus you can make a conclusion on how we see it. Again These are strictly my views and may change person to person. Not much experience with the MERC though. I have test driven the latest generation 2020 GLE and 2020 X5 and I liked driving the X5 more.

Hope this helps.

[M.Dua]

Coming from owning a S60 I can vouch for the comfort and safety Volvo brings in, situation for spares and parts has drastically improved and I have never been in a situation for delay in any part replacement, it is reliable also since I have not really got any part replaced other than an EGR on cost in last 5 years , other than that an accidental repair with Head light and bumper replacement took about 10 days including the Insurance process which is only fair ( my friends Evoque is in Service Centre for last 20 days for stolen OVRM's replacement and has been asked to wait another 2 weeks).

Issues with Volvo:
1. After Sales support from Volvo India is horrible, they just do not reply as if they do not exist. So if something goes Kaput, expecting Goodwill replacement will be a 2 month process with no line of sight on when an answer can be expected.
2. Resale is a nightmare, buy it only if you are really committed for a long term ownership, have not really come across someone who has regretted buying these machines, though it is hard to make out if it is because of super low resale that people tend to keep it longer. We have it for last 5 years( getting 25% of Purchase Price today) and i will keep it for another 4 years since I am based out of Delhi and it will max out the useful life.
3. Service station experience is poor compared to Merc & BMW, I mean visiting a Silver Arrow Service Centre in Delhi and Swede Auto in Gurgaon can be easily compared to having tea at a 5 star and having a roadside tea, but in my experience the service of my S60 is 50% cheaper than that of a Merc E Class/ 5 series.