[amalji]

Originally Posted by fast lane

All of us have been speaking of LPG mainly which is Rs.38 a kilo and drops your FE by 10%.
Hence the cost of running on stock petrol and LPG is the same.

1) LPG cost is normally per liter. I'm not sure whether per kg is correct.
2) Cost of LPG currently in Kochi is Rs. 27.94 per litre. Petrol price is 45 odd per litre. So, Petrol is costlier by 60% which does give a saving for LPG ( even if it is not as good as CNG ).

On practical scenario, my Esteem running cost on

Petrol is ( Rs. 3.8/- to Rs. 4/) - per litre while on
LPG it's around ( Rs. 2.7/- - Rs. 2.9/- ) per liter

Originally Posted by fast lane

Also LPG being heavier than air, settles on the ground (or the boot compartment) if any leak occurs and has a higher chance of fire.

Yes, this is a concern for LPG. :(
I have a very bad experience with LPG filling in Relianz LPG Pump, Kakkanad, Kochi. By God's grace, my car didn't burn out.

I'll explain what happened.
The LPG filling equipment used by Relianz ( the equipment is manufactured by L & T, I guess ) is different ( more sophisticated ) than the one used by others like Indianoil. It needs to be placed correctly or else, it will bounce back. The person on the pump was a new comer and he placed it incorrectly and went to the other side to attach the same to another car. When the speed of filling increased, the filling hose fitted to my LPG cylinder detached partially from the filling valve of the car and gas started pumping out at a huge force through the hose. The person handling the filling ran away!!!!! Gas was being released and it formed a huge cloud inside and around my car. Luckily the person on Cash counter had the presence of mind to come fast and push the emergency stop button which should have been done by the person who was filling it. I reported this to the manager in the pump, and he apologized to me. Right now, they do take extra care while filling LPG. But, safety for LPG is certainly a concern.

Originally Posted by fast lane

But when we consider CNG, this fuel is Rs.28 per KG and your FE increases by 10-15% as the fuel is sold in KG against a litre of Petrol or diesel. Hence effectively your cost of running is 50%. Example a sedan with 12KMPL on petrol will give about 15-16 KMPK in CNG.

The hitch is in the cost of CNG fitment and availibility. CNG kit cost upwards of Rs.35,000 with good ones from VANAZ in Pune going to Rs42,500, closed loop and all. Torroidal or Tube type tanks can hold a max of 12 KG of CNG, which translates into 180-200 KMS only in one filling. In city this means that you will have to refuel the vehicle twice a week....and CNG pumps are few in numbers. In case you go out of the city, you will rely on Petrol again.

In my opinion, these are the two major factors which keeps many of us FE minded people from converting - actual benefits are not very clear and attainable.

Welcome to comments on this and any corrections where I may have erred.

I am seriously considering a CNG fitment for my Siena. I do about 1000-1200 kms in city and about three four trips out of Pune (3000 Kms approx total). Need advice.

Soumo Chatterjee.

If fuel economy is the only criteria, CNG is the best option. But CNG means loss of more power. Even with LPG, you feel a slight loss in power. If you are ready to compromise on power further, then it's fine. Expect a 20% drop in power compared to Petrol and 10% drop compared to LPG.

And as you mentioned, filling is a concern right now for CNG. But, I read recently that CNG pumps will be abundant across the country in a few years.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by ranjithrnair

Talking about the leakage factor, what if the petrol tank leaks? since it is something which retains in the place, the chances of fire is more i would say. So the point of leaking is baseless.

Regarding the safety, the main culprit here is the very high pressure of the liquified gas which tends to flush the fuel out on the slightest leak on the tank. Even while filling, a slight leak can cause dangerous levels of fuel being flushed out in the shortest of time unlike Petrol. So, safety is a concern. ( I have myself experienced this as mentioned in my previous post )

CNG is better in this aspect. Eventhough pressure is high, CNG will escape into the atmosphere fast and its ignition temperature is high, making it harder to burn on normal temperatures.

[amalji]

Dear Team,

I just wanted to mention one more disadvantage when running the car on LPG. In hilly areas with low temperature, running on LPG is a real bad experience. I faced very low response and power from my car during my visits to Kodaikanal and Munnar.

The possible reasons, I can think of are

1) Due to the low temperature, LPG pressure decreases and hence doesn't flow smoothly to the engine. But in the case of Petrol, the pressure is not a factor in the flow of the fuel.
2) The lesser density of air adds to the above mentioned point and causes more difficulty in proper combustion.

So, if you are in a hilly area with low temperature, you may not want to go for LPG.

Regards,
Amal

[amalji]

Dear Team,

I had a talk with one of the Autoteam directors and he mentioned the following problems common on LPG fitted vehicles.

1) Due to non-usage, the petrol tank gets corroded and may need replacement. He said, he had customers who have to make this replacement 3 times!

2) For the sake of easy installation, normally the LPG fitting person may ignore to design the circuit to disable the electric supply to fuel pump when the vehicle runs on LPG. In addition, in the event of petrol tank going empty due to the vaporization of petrol over time, fuel pump will still be running and will cause burn out. The fuel pump replacement is an expensive affair @ around Rs.12,000/- ( for Esteem ). Even if petrol is not emptied, the working hours of fuel pump is increased without any reason.

3) The point number 2 causes the fuel pump to continuously run for no reason and circulates petrol even when the vehicle runs on LPG which causes the petrol to vaporize faster.

4) Electric energy is wasted on the fuel pump when it's not needed.

The solution that he gave for point number 1 is to run the vehicle on petrol once in a month. Maybe fill full tank Petrol and run the vehicle on petrol for atleast 100 kms every month.

For point number 2, 3 and 4, the solution is to add a relay to cut the supply to fuel pump when the vehicle runs on LPG. This mod just costs around Rs. 250/-

Regards,
Amal

[maglev]

We have been using CNG for quite sometime now, Haven't faced any major issue yet.

The recently bought Suzuki Ritz would be the 5th car on CNG.

I am happy with the savings & the reduction in my family's Carbon Footprint.

[nkapoor777]

Two factors are dealbreakers for me:

1. Frequent trips to the gas station (I drive close to 70-80 kms a day which means refill every 2nd or 3rd day)
2. Boot space sacrificed

[recshenoy]

for me below factors

1. Standing with Auto walas in queue for LPG
2. drop in pick up
3.I dont mind paying petrol bills since my running is limited
4. I wanted to retain the originality of the car AKA Running on LPG some how feels cheap for me

[Abhay]

Losing boot space would be a big no-no as mine is a hatch and whatever little space is available is much needed on all highway trips.

Loss of power is a factor too as my car is very good to drive in the Ghats (we have plenty of that to go anywhere from here) and I would not like to lose that at all.

I don't run my car too much in the city, most of the times I use the car for longer trips/drives hence not that bothered by the fuel economy aspect (anyways I would not have gone for this car if FE was the only criterion)

[amalji]

Originally Posted by recshenoy

for me below factors
1. Standing with Auto walas in queue for LPG

In which state are you from? We don't face such issues in Kerala. Many LPG pumps are available in Kerala, and we never stand in a queue.

Originally Posted by recshenoy

2. drop in pick up

It's marginal. With a good Italian kit like BRC or Lovato, iridium sparks & KN airfilter, the effect is very minimal.

Originally Posted by recshenoy

3.I dont mind paying petrol bills since my running is limited

I've another take on it. Save 1 rupee per km by using LPG and use that for maintaining the car like a new one.

Originally Posted by recshenoy

4. I wanted to retain the originality of the car AKA Running on LPG some how feels cheap for me

Infact, the drive feels smoother, if you use a good kit. 5 to 10% pickup will be reduced. But, with a car with atleast 1.3 L, you won't feel the difference on most indian roads

[Live To Jive]

Originally Posted by chanapli

Voted for Others . I see it is just the availability of LPG filling stations and missing flexibility which you get in case of petrol. Frankly speaking I have not seen a single LPG filling stations without those autorick queues.

Same reason here.

Originally Posted by directinjection

The tail pipe of his car always emitted foul odour even though there was no leakage from his cylinder or kit.

It is noteworthy that foul odour is deliberately added to domestic LPG cylinders so that people would immediately notice any leakage. I don't know if odour is added to auto LPG sold through Auto LPG outlets.

The smell is of the unburnt LPG. As mentioned above, it is added to help detect leaks. Burnt LPG does not smell. Ask your Mom if there is any smell of LPG in the kitchen when she uses the gas cooker. If your tailpipe is smelling of LPG, something is wrong.

[Firebird]

Filling station is the major constraint. If they are available, more of queue for AUTO and TAXI segment.

[maglev]

Originally Posted by Firebird

Filling station is the major constraint. If they are available, more of queue for AUTO and TAXI segment.

Originally Posted by Live To Jive

Same reason here.


The smell is of the unburnt LPG. As mentioned above, it is added to help detect leaks. Burnt LPG does not smell. Ask your Mom if there is any smell of LPG in the kitchen when she uses the gas cooker. If your tailpipe is smelling of LPG, something is wrong.

Originally Posted by recshenoy

for me below factors

1. Standing with Auto walas in queue for LPG
2. drop in pick up
3.I dont mind paying petrol bills since my running is limited
4. I wanted to retain the originality of the car AKA Running on LPG some how feels cheap for me

In New Delhi all CNG pumps have separate dispensing machines & queue's for Private cars, Commercial Cars + Auto's combined & Buses.

[carboy]

I would really love to convert my petrol Swift into CNG.
These are the stopping factors/doubts I have

- My car is Pune registered, but I have recently moved to Bombay. So I was wondering if RTO endorsement would be an issue. Would I have to take the car to Pune to get it endorsed after I get the conversion done. Would the converter do it for me at an extra charge? Or can it be endorsed in Bombay itself.

- Converion Cost Calculator
The above site pegs the cost of conversion at Rs. 45000/-. This is rather steep. If I could get it done inside 25000/30000, I would surely go for it.

- Also looking for recommendaton of good installers in Bombay & good brands of conversion kits.

- Question of where to store the spare tyre if I install a tyre shaped cylinder.

Also, a little confused as to whether CNG or LPG would be better for me. I drive around 1300 kms a month, but this is just for now. It's surely not going to increase, however, my driving may decrease later. So breakeven time of less than 2 years would be great.

[dr.faramroze]

I have seen number of CNG/LPG converted vehicles at service centres and garages, while they are dismantled, I observed unsafe installations like loose gas tank straps, gas piping aging prematurely, the craftmanship of drilling holes in vehile body very substandard. Many times when a vehicle is brought for idling, pickup or emission or knocking issues, there is a confusion on gas fuel malfunction or main ecu, timing or engine related issues. The changeover switch can be of much better quality. The electrical harnesses are of primitive ages, they can all be much better. I have seen large number of cars in Gujarat who have crude gas installations. The above is not applicable on high end sequential gas systems. Sequential system costs maximum, but then we have the advantage of NO tuneups for long durations. Sometimes, gas ECU turns out to be more dynamic than factory fitted stock ECU.