Palio Brake Upgrade

nim_peter · 23rd July 2009, 20:07

It may sound a little stupid, but will it be possible to fit the Punto disc brake setup on a Palio GTX. I'm sure the brakes of the Punto will be much better than the Palio. I'm really frustrated with the brakes and I need to do something to improve the braking.

With a budget of 10-15K, what do you guys suggest? Any performance disc pads or rotors which would help?

abhijitl · 23rd July 2009, 20:34

Hi,Have checked the disk rotor & drum quality. Any surface undulations found. If yes get them cut by a professional. Uneven disk rotors & drums means less contact area. Pads & liners dont contact fully, so resulting in less efficient brakes. For disk cutting you need spaecial machine. Disk has to be cut from both sides at the same time. Dont slam the brakes Always pump them, braking will be better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nim_peter

It may sound a little stupid, but will it be possible to fit the Punto disc brake setup on a Palio GTX. I'm sure the brakes of the Punto will be much better than the Palio. I'm really frustrated with the brakes and I need to do something to improve the braking.

With a budget of 10-15K, what do you guys suggest? Any performance disc pads or rotors which would help?

nim_peter · 24th July 2009, 21:40

Abhijit,Yes I do pump, otherwise it won't stop

I checked the disc and it has circular lines all over it, like some deep scratch all the way round. Does that mean, the disc has served its life?

7600 · 26th July 2009, 01:11

Take the rotors to the nearest machine shop and get them turned down. Also, while they are off, look to makesure they aren't warped. check the thickness of the rotor is within mfc requirement. Cheers!

moralfibre · 27th July 2009, 11:06

Ferodo Fiat Brake Pads from Pole Position USA, Ferodo Brakes Dealer

Anyone wanting to upgrade brake pads to race spec ones can take a look here.

DieselFan · 27th July 2009, 11:57

IMO Braking performance is dependent equally on the tyres and Brakes. A good tyre upgrade will automatically improve the braking performance. This has been my experience. Rather than spending money on performance brakes put the same money on performance tyres which will provide better traction in wet conditions as well as give better performance during cornering.

nim_peter · 27th July 2009, 19:23

Thanks.. i'm definitely looking for a tyre upgrade. I bought the car second hand 8 months back with new tyres already on. would have done not more than 8 or 10K kms. The threads are still good, it is a goodyear tyre. I don't mind changing it to a tubeless one, maybe XM1 185 or 195. Which one would give a better performance? Will it be ok to go for a profile change for a more sportier look?

abhijitl · 27th July 2009, 20:38

Hi, Get the disks face cut from a machine shop. Disk must be cut on a special machine where u cut both sides at one time. U can't cut one side & remove to cut the other face. Get the drums also cut if damaged. Dont forget to check minimum thickness allowed. If beyond the specs. just replace the disk rotors & drums.

Abhijit

Quote:

Originally Posted by nim_peter

Abhijit,Yes I do pump, otherwise it won't stop

I checked the disc and it has circular lines all over it, like some deep scratch all the way round. Does that mean, the disc has served its life?

lucifer919 · 17th September 2009, 18:53

Hi All,

before you jump at my throat for creating a new thread, let me xplain my situation.

i have a Palio Stile 1.6 and the braking is pathetic to say the least. in less than a year that i have had the car, i have already gone through a set of brake pads and almost done with the second set. irrespective of the same, the braking performance is less than satisfactory.

another issue that is constantly bugging me, is the fact that the brakes feel like there is some sand or mud stuck between the discs and the pads. i have taken them off to check for the same but came up with nada. when i go on the brakes, i have a constant grinding feeling and sound coming from the brakes. it can be felt through the floorboards also and quite frankly, it scary as hell.

i have had a couple of fender benders due to this as well coz the car just refuses to stop or the wheels just lock up. frankly i'm sick of paying through my nose for the headlamps again and again and they dont come cheap either :P.

i have been through a couple of threads here talking bout upgrading the braking or improving the braking on the Palio but was not able to get any concrete information about whether it can be done or not.

i have found a couple of things online talking about replacement discs and replacement pads and the like. so if my infrmation gathered is correct, the palio comes with 240 mm front rotors. the palio adventure comes with 257 mm front rotors. obviously, replacing the palio rotors with the adventure ones will require some kind of modification to incorporate/ relocate the brake capilers. is there a better option to going this route? also, is there any manufacturer in the workd who makes 240 mm brake discs? the reason i ask is because all over the internet, the palio shows up as using 257.5 mm rotors which is not the case with the indian version.
Fiat A.S.S. has tried to identify the issue over and over again with little luck. and i dont blame them either coz they have done all they can.
if anyone has had similar issues and sorted them out, please let me know if you were able to get it resolved or even have some workaround.
if going aftermarket is the way then i'm more than willing to go that route also.

Thanks,
Kiran

Ravveendrra · 17th September 2009, 20:15

2 sets of brake pads in a year?

Car either does not stop or the wheels lock up.......

IMHO you seem to be panic braking all the time - no offence meant but learn to modulate the pressure on the brake pedal and do a manual ABS i.e. press gently down on the brake pedal and let go just before the wheels lock, repeat the process and you will find the car stop much sooner than just standing on the brake pedal. You should also learn how to use engine braking to get better control of the car.

You do not mention how old the car is or how much it has run so I am presuming that it is a new car. If the car is older or has run above 50K km read the other posts here about cutting the disc rotors, drums etc.

Cheers,

lucifer919 · 17th September 2009, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

2 sets of brake pads in a year?

Car either does not stop or the wheels lock up.......

IMHO you seem to be panic braking all the time - no offence meant but learn to modulate the pressure on the brake pedal and do a manual ABS i.e. press gently down on the brake pedal and let go just before the wheels lock, repeat the process and you will find the car stop much sooner than just standing on the brake pedal. You should also learn how to use engine braking to get better control of the car.

You do not mention how old the car is or how much it has run so I am presuming that it is a new car. If the car is older or has run above 50K km read the other posts here about cutting the disc rotors, drums etc.

Cheers,

hi,

that car is 10 months old. it has run 22500 kms. and even the clutch is amost done for :P.

also, i run the car pretty hard. anyone in pune will know the mutha ghats and i go there quite often. i have a lot of highway driving between b'lor, goa, hyderabad etc. the speeds i do on NH4 to bangalore would defenitely need a lot of braking force not to mention the ghat runs that i do.

also, i'm quite aware of the pumping of the brakes and stuff as that is probably that is the reson why im still here :P. engine braking is something i dont want to get to seriously into coz i dont think it is a healthy habit for high speeds. in the city, the braking is fine but that's not really what i'm talking about.

Kiran.

motionfreak · 17th September 2009, 23:46

I have a Palio 1.2 (7 yrs old) Brake pads seem to be good. Braking is also as good as other palios. Problem is that ( I feel) when the brakes are not cold ( ie car stationary for some time) the brake pedal and the steering wheel shudders a bit. What could be the problem. The problem persists even after wheel alignment and balancing is done.
I think the problem is with the temperature only.

BTW I'm complete noob abt cars and this is my first car.

motionfreak · 18th September 2009, 00:48

^^Found something funny about my problem

Quote:

4. if you find the break pedal pulsating on sudden brake it is normal . it is the abs that is kicking in

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1459169

Ravveendrra · 18th September 2009, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by motionfreak

I have a Palio 1.2 (7 yrs old) Brake pads seem to be good. Braking is also as good as other palios. Problem is that ( I feel) when the brakes are not cold ( ie car stationary for some time) the brake pedal and the steering wheel shudders a bit. What could be the problem. The problem persists even after wheel alignment and balancing is done.
I think the problem is with the temperature only.

BTW I'm complete noob abt cars and this is my first car.

Sounds like it is time to get your rotors and perhaps drums too - cut. The brake pedal and steering shuddering is indicative of uneven brake disc rotors and drums. It has nothing to do with temperature.

P.S.: I think the 1.2 Palios of 2002 did not come with ABS so the pulsation cannot be ABS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer919

hi,

that car is 10 months old. it has run 22500 kms. and even the clutch is amost done for :P.

also, i run the car pretty hard. anyone in pune will know the mutha ghats and i go there quite often. i have a lot of highway driving between b'lor, goa, hyderabad etc. the speeds i do on NH4 to bangalore would defenitely need a lot of braking force not to mention the ghat runs that i do.

also, i'm quite aware of the pumping of the brakes and stuff as that is probably that is the reson why im still here :P. engine braking is something i dont want to get to seriously into coz i dont think it is a healthy habit for high speeds. in the city, the braking is fine but that's not really what i'm talking about.

Kiran.

10 months, 22.5k Km - two sets of brake pads/liners and one set of cluth and pressure plates. IMHO it is time you went easy, we only live once, unlike cats we are not blessed with 9 lives. The car can be repaired.......

Incidentally, I have noticed over the last few drives that the brakes of the Palio show a definite improvement in performance once they are warmed up i.e. after running for about 30 km.

Cheers,

cogweelz · 21st December 2009, 11:58

Guys,

I have a 2004 Palio 1.9 D.

I had my break pads changed 5 months back. Now again there is that growling noise back while breaking. Like once in 10 times I apply them. I use my car on a minimum rate of 25KM/day everyday in quite a lean traffic. I do have long drives (200KM above) once in a month. I have had no problems in braking. Its decent and confidence building. I dont do rash driving. Tread between 40-60KMpH.

My question is why the pads get depleted so soon? Or is it routine for Palio?

I love my car with its decent performance and awesome FE (15Kmpl with A/C) in city. Bust such crucial elemnts being depleted at such a fast rate even when I am soft on the vehicle is bit of a concern.

Please advice?

23rd July 2009, 20:07	#46
nim_peter BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 187 Thanked: 99 Times	It may sound a little stupid, but will it be possible to fit the Punto disc brake setup on a Palio GTX. I'm sure the brakes of the Punto will be much better than the Palio. I'm really frustrated with the brakes and I need to do something to improve the braking. With a budget of 10-15K, what do you guys suggest? Any performance disc pads or rotors which would help?
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 21:40	#48
nim_peter BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 187 Thanked: 99 Times	Abhijit,Yes I do pump, otherwise it won't stop I checked the disc and it has circular lines all over it, like some deep scratch all the way round. Does that mean, the disc has served its life?
	() Thanks

26th July 2009, 01:11	#49
7600 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 7 Thanked: 0 Times	Take the rotors to the nearest machine shop and get them turned down. Also, while they are off, look to makesure they aren't warped. check the thickness of the rotor is within mfc requirement. Cheers!
	() Thanks

27th July 2009, 11:06	#50
moralfibre Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: MH-12 Posts: 8,451 Thanked: 13,973 Times	Ferodo Fiat Brake Pads from Pole Position USA, Ferodo Brakes Dealer Anyone wanting to upgrade brake pads to race spec ones can take a look here.
	() Thanks

27th July 2009, 11:57	#51
DieselFan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,584 Thanked: 259 Times	IMO Braking performance is dependent equally on the tyres and Brakes. A good tyre upgrade will automatically improve the braking performance. This has been my experience. Rather than spending money on performance brakes put the same money on performance tyres which will provide better traction in wet conditions as well as give better performance during cornering.
	() Thanks

27th July 2009, 19:23	#52
nim_peter BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 187 Thanked: 99 Times	Thanks.. i'm definitely looking for a tyre upgrade. I bought the car second hand 8 months back with new tyres already on. would have done not more than 8 or 10K kms. The threads are still good, it is a goodyear tyre. I don't mind changing it to a tubeless one, maybe XM1 185 or 195. Which one would give a better performance? Will it be ok to go for a profile change for a more sportier look?
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 18:53	#54
lucifer919 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 240 Thanked: 307 Times View My Garage	Issue with Palio Brakes Hi All, before you jump at my throat for creating a new thread, let me xplain my situation. i have a Palio Stile 1.6 and the braking is pathetic to say the least. in less than a year that i have had the car, i have already gone through a set of brake pads and almost done with the second set. irrespective of the same, the braking performance is less than satisfactory. another issue that is constantly bugging me, is the fact that the brakes feel like there is some sand or mud stuck between the discs and the pads. i have taken them off to check for the same but came up with nada. when i go on the brakes, i have a constant grinding feeling and sound coming from the brakes. it can be felt through the floorboards also and quite frankly, it scary as hell. i have had a couple of fender benders due to this as well coz the car just refuses to stop or the wheels just lock up. frankly i'm sick of paying through my nose for the headlamps again and again and they dont come cheap either :P. i have been through a couple of threads here talking bout upgrading the braking or improving the braking on the Palio but was not able to get any concrete information about whether it can be done or not. i have found a couple of things online talking about replacement discs and replacement pads and the like. so if my infrmation gathered is correct, the palio comes with 240 mm front rotors. the palio adventure comes with 257 mm front rotors. obviously, replacing the palio rotors with the adventure ones will require some kind of modification to incorporate/ relocate the brake capilers. is there a better option to going this route? also, is there any manufacturer in the workd who makes 240 mm brake discs? the reason i ask is because all over the internet, the palio shows up as using 257.5 mm rotors which is not the case with the indian version. Fiat A.S.S. has tried to identify the issue over and over again with little luck. and i dont blame them either coz they have done all they can. if anyone has had similar issues and sorted them out, please let me know if you were able to get it resolved or even have some workaround. if going aftermarket is the way then i'm more than willing to go that route also. Thanks, Kiran Last edited by Jaggu : 17th September 2009 at 20:07. Reason: Please use search before opening a new thread, Thanks
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 20:15	#55
Ravveendrra Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,391 Thanked: 446 Times View My Garage	2 sets of brake pads in a year? Car either does not stop or the wheels lock up....... IMHO you seem to be panic braking all the time - no offence meant but learn to modulate the pressure on the brake pedal and do a manual ABS i.e. press gently down on the brake pedal and let go just before the wheels lock, repeat the process and you will find the car stop much sooner than just standing on the brake pedal. You should also learn how to use engine braking to get better control of the car. You do not mention how old the car is or how much it has run so I am presuming that it is a new car. If the car is older or has run above 50K km read the other posts here about cutting the disc rotors, drums etc. Cheers,
	() Thanks

17th September 2009, 23:46	#57
motionfreak BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Thane Posts: 193 Thanked: 64 Times	I have a Palio 1.2 (7 yrs old) Brake pads seem to be good. Braking is also as good as other palios. Problem is that ( I feel) when the brakes are not cold ( ie car stationary for some time) the brake pedal and the steering wheel shudders a bit. What could be the problem. The problem persists even after wheel alignment and balancing is done. I think the problem is with the temperature only. BTW I'm complete noob abt cars and this is my first car.
	() Thanks

21st December 2009, 11:58	#60
cogweelz BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Bangalored Posts: 57 Thanked: 6 Times	Palio brakes Guys, I have a 2004 Palio 1.9 D. I had my break pads changed 5 months back. Now again there is that growling noise back while breaking. Like once in 10 times I apply them. I use my car on a minimum rate of 25KM/day everyday in quite a lean traffic. I do have long drives (200KM above) once in a month. I have had no problems in braking. Its decent and confidence building. I dont do rash driving. Tread between 40-60KMpH. My question is why the pads get depleted so soon? Or is it routine for Palio? I love my car with its decent performance and awesome FE (15Kmpl with A/C) in city. Bust such crucial elemnts being depleted at such a fast rate even when I am soft on the vehicle is bit of a concern. Please advice?
	() Thanks