[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

For some reason, many desi brothers have come to a conclusion that the super stuff road bikes that are the dukes, are good for off road usage. Many parts of these bikes undergo stress levels they were never designed for in the first place. As they are put through more torture, the structural integrity of those parts, including rims, deteriorates. At some point, even a seemingly small jolt sees the rims give way

While I'm not denying that this could be a reason in some cases, in my personal experience from the cases I have seen, it has been more linked to the urban jungle, hitting the sharp lip of a pothole, and especially when the bike is leaned over, exposing the edge of the wheel (and not the meat in the center) to the sharp edge.

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Although I cant quote any numbers, its pretty simple.

For a twin: Cost of
- Pistons X 2

Vs a larger (and stronger) piston - and rings

- Cylinder X 2

Vs a larger cylinder, machining cost

- Conrod X 2

Vs a longer conrod with a larger big end

- A stronger heavier crank to accomodate 2 big-ends

I think its actually the opposite. A single would have the larger heavier flywheel - with the additional cost of the inbuilt balancer shaft mechanism.

- Valves X 2

Vs larger valves, longer thicker stems

- Exhaust headers X 2

Vs larger dia headers and/or longer, more curves

You forgot spark plugs, caps, coils, HT cables, gaskets, sealants, throttle bodies, injectors, and cables

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by nishsingh

and here we have to pay double for the Ninja!

..because Ninja is imported and duke manufactured here.

And your woes don't just end with price. As I recall it has no free service, spare parts are not only sky but you also have to wait long long long to get them... and I wonder if it is covered under warranty.

Definitely Duke makes much much more sense.

On other note lots of Dukes in the showrooms but no RC. Even their customary timeline that they would have a show bike by 11th has gone by.

[ebonho]

Can the rider and pillion footrest assemblies (including the levers and whole bracket/support) of the RC be fitted to the Dukes? Would it then make the foot position too rearward for the Duke if you leave the Duke handle in place and not change over to the RC bars? They seems to be better built, and I like the black finish.

Other parts I am looking at which could be transplanted are the chain guard (looks better designed, with more coverage) and the integrated rear hugger/monshock guard. That should be easy.

In an ideal world, something I am sure MANY Duke guys are going to try their hand at, with many combinations, before someone gets it right, is transplanting the twin projectors on to the Duke. The wiring loom and other components, as well as the lights themselves, in all likelihood will be dirt cheap (unles they are priced like the indicators!).

[tharian]

Checked out the RC 390 at the Indiranagar KTM Showroom.

It is one hot bike. Except for the headlight part, loved the way the bike looks. Years away from the other sports bike in the segment.
The pillion seat is the best . It looks like a cowl ,but is a nice cushioned seat with grab slots below the seat.

2.42 on road Blore.

Edit: There is a different in gear ratio's, but they weren't sure which ones.

[man_of_steel]

Got a chance to see the RC up close and personal at Marathahalli KTM today.

TO be honest, I was pleasantly surprised to see how slim the bike felt and how big the bike managed to looked in person.



There was a grab handle provided just below the pillion seat for saree clad ladies who sit to one side like that on a Chetak.... Ugh, the sales guy lost me there..



The battery now resides in front of the fuel tank. But the plastic piece covering the battery had an uneven fit with the rest of the fuel tank.



The matte finish of the fuel tank looked good but seemed severely prone to minor scratches and felt real plastic-ky. A tank pad is definitely a necessary commodity.

Apart from this the rider and pillion footpeg mounts looked superb and well made! The mirrors though slim vertically, had a good horizontal area, It was well adjustable horizontally but the vertical adjustment seemed limited. I, at 5'11" felt that it should have been more vertically adjustable. That said, it was definitely far-far better than the Duke's!

Bangalore on road price was on the north of 2.4L-s and has a 90 Day waiting period.

[mehuel]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Can the rider and pillion footrest assemblies (including the levers and whole bracket/support) of the RC be fitted to the Dukes? Would it then make the foot position too rearward for the Duke if you leave the Duke handle in place and not change over to the RC bars? They seems to be better built, and I like the black finish.

Other parts I am looking at which could be transplanted are the chain guard (looks better designed, with more coverage) and the integrated rear hugger/monshock guard. That should be easy.

In an ideal world, something I am sure MANY Duke guys are going to try their hand at, with many combinations, before someone gets it right, is transplanting the twin projectors on to the Duke. The wiring loom and other components, as well as the lights themselves, in all likelihood will be dirt cheap (unles they are priced like the indicators!).

Doc, no offence but as the say 'evil minds think alike'. And I know for sure lot of us are thinking on the same lines.

and you know what I'd love to see that petite little low slung integrated clip on esque clamp (don't remember what else it is called) on 390 Duke, that entire handle bar assembly, and it should be a simple plug an play.

It will be uncomfortable, than stock Duke and add to that the wind blast without the fairing
This idea has been bugging me since the day I saw rc pics on net. It should aid feedback on Duke, also making it lighter than RC, not sure what gearing RC is coming with, but do such stupid mods, and we have a modern day cafe racer/ rat bike antics.

[ebonho]

Another very nice touch is the front mudguard which has a extension shroud in front of each fork leg - perfect for protecting the fork leg lowers from mud splatter. This is something I have suggested (with drawings - a la the old Fiero) on a number of occasions to the R&D boys there. Glad to see that they've come up with what looks lie a perfect design. One more possible addition for Duke 390 guys from the RC's parts bin.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by mehuel

Doc, no offence but as the say 'evil minds think alike'. And I know for sure lot of us are thinking on the same lines.

Bulleteers have been doing the same (cross-raiding parts bins) for years now.

and you know what I'd love to see that petite little low slung integrated clip on esque clamp (don't remember what else it is called) on 390 Duke, that entire handle bar assembly, and it should be a simple plug an play.

It will be uncomfortable, than stock Duke and add to that the wind blast without the fairing
This idea has been bugging me since the day I saw rc pics on net. It should aid feedback on Duke, also making it lighter than RC, not sure what gearing RC is coming with, but do such stupid mods, and we have a modern day cafe racer/ rat bike antics..

This is very doable and as mentioned earlier, is the easiest plug and play (along with the rear sets) to make a Duke more track worthy - short of selling the Duke and buying the RC.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by nitro.1000bhp

Haters are gonna hate. Lets move on shall we.


Errr..Have all these happened to the same bike ? Do post some examples if you have.

If I answer your this question, we would be going around in circles.

What I fail to understand is, why are the owners (few) safeguarding its niggle? You pay a price the manufacturer is asking for, then why live with this small niggle/s, fault/s. No one asked them to price it at that price point, VFM or not.

Not that I am not looking forward for a bike purchase, I very well am. But my service priorities are a bit different than most. For a start, SVC is at some 200kms away (round trip 400) and I know a Jap won't trouble me, but this might.

While my need/priorities are different, all of us do want a bike which requires less attention apart from routine service if taken care of.

Few KTM guys are guarding their turf in such a way that it reminds me of Tata & Fiat owners on our forum. Passionate, but biased.

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If I answer your this question, we would be going around in circles.

What I fail to understand is, why are the owners (few) safeguarding its niggle? You pay a price the manufacturer is asking for, then why live with this small niggle/s, fault/s. No one asked them to price it at that price point, VFM or not.

Not that I am not looking forward for a bike purchase, I very well am. But my service priorities are a bit different than most. For a start, SVC is at some 200kms away (round trip 400) and I know a Jap won't trouble me, but this might.

While my need/priorities are different, all of us do want a bike which requires less attention apart from routine service if taken care of.

Few KTM guys are guarding their turf in such a way that it reminds me of Tata & Fiat owners on our forum. Passionate, but biased.

What makes you feel I am safeguarding anyone or anything ? I have stated clearly that I have had no issues with my bike and hence my impression about these machines and the manufacturer. Seems to me that YOU are the one on a mission to put down their products based on internet blurb!. Have you lived with one ? or have your freinds got any that malfunctioned? Dont just go by internet banter and arrive at conclusions.

No bike is perfect and if you think such a product exists, please enlighten us about what we should buy next instead using your unbiased passion.

[batterylow]

Guys please, lets restrict the discussion to the bike here.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, right or wrong.

So lets leave it at that.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If I answer your this question, we would be going around in circles.

What I fail to understand is, why are the owners (few) safeguarding its niggle? You pay a price the manufacturer is asking for, then why live with this small niggle/s, fault/s. No one asked them to price it at that price point, VFM or not.

Not that I am not looking forward for a bike purchase, I very well am. But my service priorities are a bit different than most. For a start, SVC is at some 200kms away (round trip 400) and I know a Jap won't trouble me, but this might.

While my need/priorities are different, all of us do want a bike which requires less attention apart from routine service if taken care of.

Few KTM guys are guarding their turf in such a way that it reminds me of Tata & Fiat owners on our forum. Passionate, but biased.

So there are two kinds of people-

1. You would like lesser niggles. You wouldn't mind a higher price tag. You would like the confidence a jap machine would give.

2. There are others who prefer the cheaper price, the VFM proposition, the explosive power (at that price specially!)etc. They feel their bikes, although not perfect, are giving them good returns on the money spent- and this makes them ignore the small niggles the bike may present them with.

I just don't get it why your POV is called a 'fact' while their POV can be called 'fanboyism'. It's only two people with two priorities. Two paradigms.

If you say- all of us wish for bikes with less maintenance as the first priority, probably Royal Enfields wouldn't even sell, let alone at the current prices!

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by nitro.1000bhp

What makes you feel I am safeguarding anyone or anything ? I have stated clearly that I have had no issues with my bike and hence my impression about these machines and the manufacturer. Seems to me that YOU are the one on a mission to put down their products based on internet blurb!. Have you lived with one ? or have your freinds got any that malfunctioned? Dont just go by internet banter and arrive at conclusions.

That Internet blurb is a place where most share their experience. It is for them to speak for and against it. Sure no one can own everything to know about a product. And prior to making a purchase decision, then do your homework of test riding etc, but still, no one would tell you about their service experience and long term ownership, but here, at the Internet blurb. Or catch respective owners at signals & quiz 'em?

I was speaking about the D-390, not the D-200 which you have owned, lived with. D-200's have less niggle, which is not the case with the D-390 (of whatever is reported at the internet blurb, which has a sample size of many owners sharing & learning) And did I mention anywhere about nitro.1000bhp safeguarding it? You have chosen to interpret my reply that way. I am helpless if you see that way and taken upon you.

BTW, here is something for you http://riderzone.in/negatives-of-duke-390/

No bike is perfect and if you think such a product exists, please enlighten us about what we should buy next instead using your unbiased passion.

Thanks for making me feel better. Though, cut the slack next time. We aren't heading anywhere with sentences like these.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I just don't get it why your POV is called a 'fact' while their POV can be called 'fanboyism'. It's only two people with two priorities. Two paradigms.

If you say- all of us wish for bikes with less maintenance as the first priority, probably Royal Enfields wouldn't even sell, let alone at the current prices!

I don't understand the RE or Harley breed, so lets cut out that first.

And when did I say as to what I am expressing are facts...?

Cheaper price tag or not, a product in my books should not have niggles at the first place. It is fine if you differ with it because you have chosen to pay for it, live with a wanted niggle and still patronize about it. I am really fine with it as I didn't shell out $$$ for it. But, just because I am not owning it, doesn't mean I can't express my opinion about the two paradigms. I never said that it is not VFM or any demeaning thing either about the bike or their owners. Why take a sample size of 1 bike per person to know about it?

For eg - As the Storme is quite ahead of the erstwhile Safari as far as reliability goes, it just might be the same for the RC390 wrt to the D-390 (for those who accept there are niggles in the Safari as well as D-390)

Thanks

[ebonho]

Sheel I agree with you. The D390 has more niggles than the D200 ever had (especially the first lot ones).

It really does boil down to what is available at what price and whether you are willing to live with the niggles that come with it (D390) OR you would rather have a more niggle free product BUT which is nowhere close to the niggl-y bike in performance and equipment and sheer fun factor (Inazuma, CBR250 - nearly as niggly itself) OR you would be willing to pay twice as much to have both of these - performance and quality and niggle-free existence (N300).

[basuroy]

I recently booked the duke 390 and should arrive by end of this month.

I did that after going through more or less the entire ownership threads both at XBHP and TBHP . My observation is this is by no means a perfect product or even acceptable compared against a certain level , if someone says there is no perfect product then they are right but 1/100 bike sold needing to visit SVC before 1st service is acceptable , with duke I have seen so many needing to visit SVC multiple times within 1000km . At this level in 21st century , even a 10% failure rate within first 10k km doesn't cuts it .

I booked knowing that I am taking a gamble - gasket fuel leak , coolant leak are pathetic problems that should not even exist but they do and with alarming frequency in this bike . Then there are the potentially fatal ones like engine stalling and rim cracks . If I face those issues , I will likely be angry and retrospect why I made this purchase even though I knew there is a good chance of coming across such problems . And since I have already considered that situation , It wont grieve me past a certain level , worst case scenario sell it to some one for an acceptable damage to pocket .

I still made the purchase and that was influenced by these factors -
1. The bike is exciting , bikes are not a primary commuter vehicle for me so the ability to thrill me is very important . If there was another such bike , that would have been considered and then reliability would have reigned supreme over a difference of 5-10bhp .
2. ABS - at the age of 24 and very limited experience with disc brakes , it is a no-brainer for me .
3. Rider triangle , well the pegs are too rear set but the upright seating and conventional handle did it for me - RC390 was never even considered for this reason .
4. My use will be limited , so long term reliability as in post 10k or 20k km was not a factor .

ps: not that it matters but it was either duke or bust for me , paid a cursory visit to enfield to take a look at the continental gt but they didn't have it .

pps: I also believe reliability/quality should never be sacrificed , it is a complete lack of any other exciting bike that made me look and eventually purchase the duke but then that is not an ideal market scenario . Take 20/30k extra from me but provide better quality , surely that much can cover basics like a better gasket or coolant circulation !