[The Great]

Originally Posted by jvm_1986

Upon checking with a RE dealership near my place, the sales person there mentioned that the new 750cc will be a twin cylinder and will be available in the Continental GT (as a more powerful version in addition to the existing GT). This version of the GT is supposedly expected by Dec 2015-Jan 2016.

He even mentioned that Himalayan will be a single cylinder engine motorcycle which will be launched in maybe 3 months from now. Exact engine details on the Himalayan he was not aware though.

Couldn't believe the above statements but he was quite confident about this news.

If the twin only comes in CGT then it would be really sad. Although it might get a lot of buyers but not everyone likes the GT (the levels of quality and finish on the CGT is above all other RE's though, but personally I don't like the cafe racers.)

The same engine in a classic or TB format would directly give the Harley's a run for their money.

With the 250, RE would mark itself in all of the "Premium" segment. Which would be a commendable transformation and achievement of a long running cult company. The phenomenal rise of the brand in the last few years is really praiseworthy.

The thing's they have to get right now are the levels of fit and finish, longevity and reliability of parts and lastly the after sales quality.

[navin_v8]

I have been hearing about the 750cc parallel twin engine since October 2014 when I had bought my Tbird500. It was from a reliable source and also said that it would use the same CGT twin cradle frame chassis. Power and torque figures were unknown but yes testing is going on was the answer. I didn't probe any further as there were rounds doing that RE has ready access to its very own model the 750cc parallel twin Interceptor. I would be more than happy to see a modern retro classic RE Interceptor with a OHC 750cc parallel twin air cooled/liquid cooled EFi 6 speed engine. RE never known for its power figures can transform themselves with this engine apart from their trademark Torque ofcourse .

It would be great if they can tune the 750cc parallel twin engine to punch out atleast 60-65horses with 60-65 NM of torque and ABS as standard . As for the 250cc engine it would be great if they offer it on their existing CGT to make it lighter and nimble inorder to improve the power to weight ratio. They can offer a power in the range of about 20-25 BHP with 25 NM of torque again we need a OHC engine. Also I believe the original Cafe Racer came with a 250cc engine. I think RE has realized that for them to stay in the game they have to evolve and offer new motorcycles with modern engines.

[B O V]

Its quite good that Royal Enfield as a company is evolving, making better (I hope so) motorcycles.

I've always wondered how a large capacity Enfield would heat up the premium motorcycling segment. If they do it right, they might just cause a stir.

They should get the twin right though, actually the Interceptor mill was known for being one of the most balanced twins in comparision with the Nortons, Triumphs et al of that era.

It makes sense that they use the contiental gt's frame, it is afterall the most modern frame they have. Actually there were a couple of photos of a twin on a gt frame in another thread.

I also think it might be better if they have dedicated outlets for their high end motorcycles with knowlegeable staff. A customer purchasing their premium offerings might not exactly be enthused with their lackluster service.

Regards,

BOV

[safari_lover]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

As for the 250cc engine it would be great if they offer it on their existing CGT to make it lighter and nimble inorder to improve the power to weight ratio. They can offer a power in the range of about 20-25 BHP with 25 NM of torque again we need a OHC engine. Also I believe the original Cafe Racer came with a 250cc engine. I think RE has realized that for them to stay in the game they have to evolve and offer new motorcycles with modern engines.

I agree. The 250cc engine will be a great fit on the current CGT. Not only will it make it more nimble with the reduced weight but it will also make it more affordable.

[the VTEC guy]

Another news is RE has acquired Harris Performance. They will be developing new bikes from UK center. I think Harris Performance had played crucial role in developing Continental GT.

[Hammer & Anvil]

As an owner of an RE Classic 500 and having owned three families of Harleys- I watch the new bike market with a lot of enthusiasm.

I have found that there is a huge middle class and Middle-higher income class of rider- those who want to enjoy the road. The vast reaches of the country. I look at the spend that riders do on HOG events and am sure there is no reason why RE cannot capture some of that economic glory.
I can only point out to a few small things that make it possible to enjoy distance riding-
A. Seat Height needs to be low- bring it to 750mm or lower, as is really easy to raise the heights of seats and nigh impossible to bring it down due to chassis restritions. and I feel there is a fantastic market for the majority of the Indian male market and a resurgent female market who would love to buy RE products only if their feet feel comfortable on the ground... or even reach the ground
Impossible bikes, KTM 690 and the 1190, the kawa' Versys- all have towering heights and those guys who can invest and use such bikes are running around on Triumph Tigers and BMW 1200s. These people will bring in tall bikes and suffer dismal sales as the anthropometric data for Indian males is just on an average at 5'6" - about ridiculous to stuff seat heights of 830-850mm+ on us, right?

B. An easy 6th gear on every bike should be introduced- it is such a droning bore to drag a 500 beyond 80 with the engine straining.... the hugely oversquare design is responsible for the lack of ability to rev higher- that HAS to be addressed. I am not talking bikes like the Super Duke that can do 280... I just want a bike that will do 90-110 in 6th without straining or without feeling like an asthamatic. Well, like the Super Duke can do... ironically.

Off roaders and Adventure bikes deal with a segment of riding, and any strongly built bike can be converted by changing to knobby tires and a sprocket meant for better low end riding... but if you start with a seat height like 840mm- you will be in the wind all day.
I think they need to address the overall economics- HOGS took 60+ riders to Bhutan last year while RE managed low two digits including their staff to Tibet. If you offer distance running bikes, they will come first. Good road riding wins economically.

I see huge prospects in the 750 from RE, provided it comes with 6-speed, and twin discs up front, single disc behind... ABS is soon to become a need than a 'good thing' for bikes- pretty much that should be good.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil

... I just want a bike that will do 90-110 in 6th without straining or without feeling like an asthamatic. Well, like the Super Duke can do... ironically.

Really good realistic points bro.

Is it not ironic that even after three different generations of 500 cc motors across the past two decades we as owners are still crying for a bike that can comfortably hold 90-110 kmph for long periods of non-stop running regardless of ambient temperature without sucking the life out of the motor, parts breaking/bending/giving way, or inordinately large quantities of oil being consumed.

Such is the real world confidence we have as customers who've seen the machines and what they can actually do on the road when pushed (..... and Indian Bullets are pushed, and then some!), that even today when we are discussing a 750 cc TWIN, we are still being measured and cautious in our expectations and asking (very humbly) for RE to give us a bike that can JUST hold 120 kmph in May-June at 2-3 in the afternoon for an entire tankful worth of running.

If they can, then we will allow ourselves to get really greedy and ambitious and ask for (horror, shudder, tremble) 140 kmph from a RE liter class.

[ashwin1224]

Its really great to see RE growing. I am seriously considering the CGT as my second bike and if the 750 comes around Dec 2015 I ll get it/book it the day RE allows.

Many here are have said RE has finally realised they need modern tech. But I beg to differ. RE always knew they need to develop new engines. But serious R&D needs serious cash. And the glorious sales in the past few years got RE just that. Even though Eicher have got big bucks, they wouldnt have thrown money on a unit that wasnt making any money(i.e. RE of the past) but since its new found popularity I am sure Eicher can get good returns should they wish to dump some cash.

[Hammer & Anvil]

In todays day and age R&D, where possible is a shared expense- like our dear friends Tata and Mahindras both having the same 2.2L and then about 13 cars in India pulling the Fiat 1.3L Diesel... if not more cars. And which is why Fiat is not decimating the market by bringing in the 1.6 and 1.9L Diesel that are so popular around the world. Anyway. Back to R&D|
IF one expects that the new 410 and 750 will sell about 2-3000 and 1-2000 pieces each year for the coming 5 years (foreseaable future), there is no way they will break even on developing the cost of those engines.
So the best thing is to reduce the oversquare 500, monoshock it, and sell it. And the 750- find a used/discontinued Japanese or European Engine and buy off about 1000+ pieces and pick them up from some Honda godown.
The pictures are so CB750 likes or of that category from the 90's that I am sure some eagle-eyed readers here would be able to google "carburetted twin cylinder 750" engines and find which one the RE guys are using for their new model.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil

So the best thing is to reduce the oversquare 500, monoshock it, and sell it.

350 cc
Bore x stroke 70mm x 90mm

500 cc
Bore x stroke 84mm x 90mm

535 cc
Bore x stroke 87mm x 90mm

I agree that the real charm of a cruiser type bike is the lazy chugging engine and the longer stroke will help rein in the horses at lower RPMs.

[Steeroid]

There are and will be better bikes available, possibly for lesser money than what "Royal" Enfield expects for its leaky, wheezy, badly-welded creations.

However, we as a people are suckers for nostalgia (sanskaar, parampara, etc) and hence will continue to buy these overpriced and underpowered pieces of junk. Don't expect miracles from RE - they're barely capable of meeting the lowest expectations w.r.t performance, engineering, build quality and reliability right now.

But then again, that is what people seem to want.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil

And the 750- find a used/discontinued Japanese or European Engine and buy off about 1000+ pieces and pick them up from some Honda godown.
The pictures are so CB750 likes or of that category from the 90's that I am sure some eagle-eyed readers here would be able to google "carburetted twin cylinder 750" engines and find which one the RE guys are using for their new model.

Bro they are doing exactly that.

Their new found wealth has meant an increased budget for their R&D dept., a chunk of which has been spent on buying a ton of bikes of other manufacturers, Indian and MNC, bikes available in India and bikes not.

The rest is left to the imagination of what happens after that. Not everyone needs to buy out a foreign company to get a good look at its technology.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

However, we as a people are suckers for nostalgia (sanskaar, parampara, etc) and hence will continue to buy these overpriced and underpowered pieces of junk. Don't expect miracles from RE - they're barely capable of meeting the lowest expectations w.r.t performance, engineering, build quality and reliability right now.

But then again, that is what people seem to want.

It's quite amazing how the above paragraph can also be applied on American brand:

However, we as a people are suckers for firangi nostalgia (heritage, lifestyle, cult, rebel, freedom etc) and hence will continue to buy these overpriced and underpowered pieces of junk.

But irrespective of this, it sells way above others.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by alpha1

It's quite amazing how the above paragraph can also be applied on American brand:

True that. Both seek to peddle a lifestyle and not sell motorcycles - the American version is obviously extremely successful at that, while RE is still a wannabe. Neither of them are known for any engineering heritage.

Is there space for TWO lifestyle players trying to sell two wheels connected to a frame as part of a larger lifestyle sell? Perhaps there is a lower end of that niche that RE is seeking to serve - in which case they are only serving as a stepping stone to the more successful marketer.

Given a choice between RE and Hyped-up White Trash (no offence to the riders, but if one looks at the manufacturer and its creations objectively that is exactly what they are) at the same price level, where do you think our people would put their money?

We're all coconuts: brown outside, but white inside. Therein lies the problem for Royal Enfield - they will never be taken seriously as a motorcycle manufacturer, and they risk building up a legion of prospects for the other big brand if they go into the Lifestyle Segment and stop pretending to be motorcycle manufacturers.

[Rocky_Balboa]

Back on the topic.

If 750 is confirmed new, then the spyshot's that were doing round in another thread should be the prototype.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...l-enfield.html