[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by tejus.s

Hi All,

After 6 years of ownership, I have finally decided to retire my pride and joy, my 2011 Karizma R in black! With modern bikes being lot more nimble, efficient and easier to ride in the city, have narrowed my choices to the TVS Apache RTR 200 and the FZ25.

I have 80k km experience in Karizma ownership( 2008 Karizma R & 2010 ZMR ). I guess both rtr 200 & FZ 25 are not substantial upgrades to the Karizma's beautiful 223 cc mill.

Apache is slower than FZ25. FZ25 is very lively till 80 kmph. I felt it felt totally like my ZMR on the highways. It hates to rev beyond 8k rpm in 5th. Cruising speeds of 100 kmph is doable all day. It felt strained at 110 kmph.

If bs4 honda cbr250r comes on sale, i guess that would be the ideal bike for you. I owned one for 14 months and it felt like the perfect upgrade to a Karizma.

But between two bikes you have asked, I would choose FZ25, eyes closed! Here is my take on tye FZ25:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RW5UdaG42sY

Finally like all karizma owners suggested you, Dont sell it! I still miss my ZMA- R and regret selling it!

(while I dont miss my pulsar 200 NS one bit)
As for the P200 vs 200NS debate, 200NS will eat P220 in handling and performance, but I would prefer a P220 over 200NS because it is a lot more comfortable and has wind protection. NS was so uncomfortable to me. NS200 was among the best built pulsars, P220 was not as good when it comes to build quality.

[NishantKj]

With FZ you get more Refined and quick engine. But with Apache 200 you get one heavy masculine and rough machine.

I have been using Apache 180 for 7 year with no problem. Not a single breakup in 60k KM. TVS comes with very cheap maintenance. All the spare parts are cheap and readily available. Where i have seen many Yamaha bike sin showroom for over one month because of unavailability of spare parts.

My vote goes for Apache as per my experience.

[aabhimanyu04]

Yamaha FZ25 has a slightly upper hand in terms of tank range, FI and braking.
In my eyes the apache has more character than the sweet sounding FZ25 but then important is to note the long term reliability with Yamaha.

[jetsetgo08]

If your monthly usage consists of any road trips or longish commutes, look no further than FZ25 or the upcoming Fazer 250. FZ is more comfortable for both the rider and pillion than the RTR. Coming from a ZMA the RTR will be a downgrade w.r.t comfort.

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

If bs4 honda cbr250r comes on sale, i guess that would be the ideal bike for you. I owned one for 14 months and it felt like the perfect upgrade to a Karizma.

But between two bikes you have asked, I would choose FZ25, eyes closed!

Finally like all karizma owners suggested you, Dont sell it! I still miss my ZMA- R and regret selling it!

I have never been a huge fan of the CBR 250R. It always felt like Honda compromised a lot on the product in a segment they created (read affordable 250s) in India. While it may be decent to own, it certainly is not on my list.

But I have to sell my Karizma for sure! No two ways about it

Originally Posted by NishantKj

With FZ you get more Refined and quick engine. But with Apache 200 you get one heavy masculine and rough machine.

I have been using Apache 180 for 7 year with no problem. Not a single breakup in 60k KM. TVS comes with very cheap maintenance. All the spare parts are cheap and readily available. Where i have seen many Yamaha bike sin showroom for over one month because of unavailability of spare parts.

My vote goes for Apache as per my experience.

Thanks, TVS definitely seems to have upped their quality of service and overall reliability. Forget customer satisfaction surveys, numbers there might be fudged, but very reliable folks tell me that the core product is good enough even for mediocre service guys to ensure a good job.

Originally Posted by aabhimanyu04

Yamaha FZ25 has a slightly upper hand in terms of tank range, FI and braking.
In my eyes the apache has more character than the sweet sounding FZ25 but then important is to note the long term reliability with Yamaha.

Long term reliability being one of the key priorities, I am inclined towards the FZ25!

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

If your monthly usage consists of any road trips or longish commutes, look no further than FZ25 or the upcoming Fazer 250. FZ is more comfortable for both the rider and pillion than the RTR. Coming from a ZMA the RTR will be a downgrade w.r.t comfort.

Thank you! I agree. The FZ indeed feels like a modern take on the ZMA in the sense that it does not have cutting edge materials or features, but the level of engineering that has gone into the product feels like something on the Japanese can pull off.

[five46]

Of the two bikes you have listed, as a present owner of a ZMA, I would prefer the FZ over the Apache. My experience with the two bikes in your shortlist is limited only to test drives. I felt more at home on the FZ than on the Apache owing to the relaxed nature of the motor compared to the RTRs.


But, since your rides are limited to city (80%) and your monthly mileage is less than 1000kms., I would also give a thought to the CB Unicorn (looks dated, but would be recommended even by grannies for its reliability) and/or the CB Hornet. They are reliable ( => peace of mind) and offer plush ride quality.

[AtheK]

with someone who owns an Apache 160 for close to 7+ years, reliability is one thing you have to not even think twice about Apache, it's a great bike. I came from a pulsar 150 (the one with round headlights), and that was one hell of unrelaible bike, so many niggles.

I am so impressed with TVS that i am patiently waiting for Akula or the RTR310, i will book it on launch date itself.

[autohead666]

I would like to suggest another bike, Honda CB Hornet . Take a test ride on it, handling is amazing and engine is well refined.

[Sheel]

I am someone who has ridden both the Karizma and CBR 250R [along with others]. Karizma for ~3 years and 250R for ~5 years. Currently ride the FZ-25.

FZ-25 is the best commuter [brilliant] out there or if you plan to tour close to 100 kmph or below it. Above that, it would start loosing its steam slowly. It has better braking/handling than both. Being a Yamaha, you can be sure of its reliability and I am fairly happy with its ride quality. Its fun to stand on pegs and glide over everything.

For commuting and a occasional touring, there aren't many negatives. Headlamp is one as is the lack of ABS & tires are not very grippy. Else I seem to like this bike. If I ever plan to upgrade, I just might keep this for commuting.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by autohead666

I would like to suggest another bike, Honda CB Hornet . Take a test ride on it, handling is amazing and engine is well refined.

No offense, but it is a terrible choice.

Hornet 160 is a downgrade from Karizma R in all aspects. It has a weird seating position that would be very uncomfortable over long distances, and it is among the slowest of 150/160s out there.

[raghu.bramha]

Originally Posted by tejus.s

have narrowed my choices to the TVS Apache RTR 200 and the Yamaha FZ25.

Having ridden both the bikes briefly, I am unable to come to terms with the price difference between the two.
Since I am highly skeptical about long term reliability of Bajaj products, have excluded the newly launched NS200.

I have a similar dilemma as i am planning to upgrade from daily runabout Pulsar UG2 (2005). I, however am still contemplating on buying a bike or Royal Enfield . I absolutely hated the old FZ due to some unknown reason. And when i saw the draken concept i thought TVS has lost whatever sense they had and completely given in to Japanese design pattern because i thought the Dracken looked like a cheap Transformer rip-off. But when Apache 200v was launched and i saw it in flesh, i was hard pressed to like it. It isn't as bad as i thought. The engine is more refined version of the earlier short stroke RTR version. I had a chance to ride it. Though it was very good in straight line and the bends, my opinion cannot be weighed in, as i am coming from riding a 150CC old pulsar for almost 12 years and no other major biking experience.

FZ25 is something which is still in my list of things i see and cringe. But its become popular and boy oh boy is it selling like hot cake. It's even cutting into Dominar's sales. Haven't ridden in so can't comment.

What i would suggest is, rent these bikes (I think Apache 200V is available atleast in bangalore) and go for long ride. It will give you insight into what niggles you may face. Apache may feel peppy and thrilling but can it take a beating in the long run. Find out. Yamaha also may seem plush and refined but is it good enough on the highway.

Only way to find out is to get them for a short while however possible (beg borrow or steal err rent) and then decide. All the best.

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by five46

Of the two bikes you have listed, as a present owner of a ZMA, I would prefer the FZ over the Apache.

But, since your rides are limited to city (80%) and your monthly mileage is less than 1000kms., I would also give a thought to the CB Unicorn (looks dated, but would be recommended even by grannies for its reliability) and/or the CB Hornet. They are reliable ( => peace of mind) and offer plush ride quality.

Thank you, I felt the same after having tried them back to back.

I am not keen on the Hornet as I did not find it an upgrade in my books. Going back to a smaller capacity would be painful when an FZ rider stands next to you at the lights!

Originally Posted by AtheK

with someone who owns an Apache 160 for close to 7+ years, reliability is one thing you have to not even think twice about Apache, it's a great bike. I came from a pulsar 150 (the one with round headlights), and that was one hell of unrelaible bike, so many niggles.

I am so impressed with TVS that i am patiently waiting for Akula or the RTR310, i will book it on launch date itself.

TVS really seems to have got their act together lately. The Akula looks pretty promising, but would certainly be above my price bracket and not to mention, I am not keen on full body fairings. Simpler the better for me.

Originally Posted by autohead666

I would like to suggest another bike, Honda CB Hornet . Take a test ride on it, handling is amazing and engine is well refined.

Like I have said earlier, anything less than a 200 would feel like a downgrade to me! The Hornet looks great and Honda comes with peace of mind, but I want something to stand out and be a little future proof since I don't see an upgrade for the next 5-7 years.

Originally Posted by Sheel

I am someone who has ridden both the Karizma and CBR 250R [along with others]. Karizma for ~3 years and 250R for ~5 years. Currently ride the FZ-25.

FZ-25 is the best commuter [brilliant] out there or if you plan to tour close to 100 kmph or below it. Above that, it would start loosing its steam slowly. It has better braking/handling than both. Being a Yamaha, you can be sure of its reliability and I am fairly happy with its ride quality. Its fun to stand on pegs and glide over everything.

For commuting and a occasional touring, there aren't many negatives. Headlamp is one as is the lack of ABS & tires are not very grippy. Else I seem to like this bike. If I ever plan to upgrade, I just might keep this for commuting.

Thank you! I think the votes are even as of now, but I have almost made up my mind on the FZ25. Just wish they had better color options!

[ashwinprakas]

Dear OP,

It would be best if you focus less on the displacement or any other specification mentioned on paper and actually do a detailed TD of the motorcycles in question, reason being configuration and state of tune makes a whole world of difference.

The ZMA has oomph up front but the P220 is completely different, runs like crap while off-roading and climbing steep inclines. At the same time a Glamour would kick a P220’s ass when it comes to low end oomph as the peak torque comes up around 4K RPM. Going by the above example the P220 would seem like a not so good option but out on proper highways the P220 would remain undefeated in comparison irrespective of the vibes.

As for FZ25 and RTR200, you’ve got two decent motorcycles, and unless you actually ride them both back to back you won’t be able to confidently determine which suits your taste and riding conditions.

As a tip I’d say if you’re a frequent long runner then it would be best to stick with carb’s merely because it reduces the chances of being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

As for FZ25 and RTR200, you’ve got two decent motorcycles, and unless you actually ride them both back to back you won’t be able to confidently determine which suits your taste and riding conditions.

As a tip I’d say if you’re a frequent long runner then it would be best to stick with carb’s merely because it reduces the chances of being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks Ashwin, I'll keep that in mind. I have tried both the machines separately since managing a TD on the same day is kind of cumbersome. Will give Bajaj a try before taking the final call.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

The ZMA has oomph up front but the P220 is completely different, runs like crap while off-roading and climbing steep inclines. At the same time a Glamour would kick a P220’s ass when it comes to low end oomph as the peak torque comes up around 4K RPM. Going by the above example the P220 would seem like a not so good option but out on proper highways the P220 would remain undefeated in comparison irrespective of the vibes.

How serious you are? It makes peak torque at 7,000 revs, but irrespective of that, it will kick any 150cc Motorcycle at similar revs.

As a tip I’d say if you’re a frequent long runner then it would be best to stick with carb’s merely because it reduces the chances of being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Precisely why the entire world is moving to fuel injection. And it is just so easy to adjust your carburetor equipped motorcycle high up in the mountains.