[aussigreg]

Sutripa,

I wasn't aware that company attitudes were so cancerous in India. RE Australia has been really good so far. They sold me all the spares I asked for with the bike, they shipped the bike a few days after I ordered it, they sold me the workshop manual and threw in spare inner tubes, throttle and clutch cables. They let me choose a name brand motorcycle dealer here to act as the service agent (because RE dealers in aus are few and far between).. and I can email them with problems and questions anytime, they even answered on a Sunday last month.

This is the kind of attitude and service that keeps RE growing in Australia in an economic slump. I suspect RE India is treating you guys third class because the giant world market and the huge margines they make in some countries is all that's important to them. I'm missing piece of the puzzle though, are there government restrictions on international bike brands and engine capactity in india? I can't figure why you would put up with long waiting lists quality failure and poor back up if you could buy a Harley Sportster or Kawasaki W800. Here in Aus those 2 bikes cost about the price one and a half C5's and you do get what you pay for. However, no smooth new modern/retro bike feels like the truely vintage Enfield out in the country on a weekend. I have a Suzuki in the shed for reliable high mileage and true power.

[sudipta]

All,

During my delivery, they gave me the old owner manual for CL 5 and not the new one which should have come for Chrome and Desert Storm. Do you see any major difference between them?

Also is there a way to get the workshop manual? I would prefer a soft copy than a paper back one.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by aussigreg

Sutripa,

I wasn't aware that company attitudes were so cancerous in India. RE Australia has been really good so far.

This is the kind of attitude and service that keeps RE growing in Australia in an economic slump. I suspect RE India is treating you guys third class because the giant world market and the huge margines they make in some countries is all that's important to them.

It is the dealerships that make the difference. Outside of India, all RE sales come from the enthusiast market and dealers have to be tailored to meet that need to survive. That isn't the case in India, dealers have very little time for the fans, who have to search for a local mechanic, given too the fact that the DIY culture isn't so prevalent here.

REs need a lot of care if they are to run well too, they can't be treated like appliances. That starts from how well they are run in, even today. Good running in makes a day and night difference to the long term reliability of an RE. I am not sure how well that is understood here, based on how I see new bikes being flogged.

Finally, the larger engine capacity imports have just started coming here, but these don't have a volume market because of their poor fuel efficiency and where this doesn't matter so much, the lack of roads to ride them in the higher gears! The lack of volumes means that they are fully built imports for the most part, and the customs duty is very high, so they also tend to be very expensive toys then.

For others on this thread, I have an AVL 500 that still works very well. I have heard that the recent crop of EFI bikes have lots of issues in India - is this still true or have the design defects been corrected by now?

PS: In my book, flogged includes riding in too high a gear for the road speed. This is probably more harmful than the other way around.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Randhawa

I understand your reasoning to get to the root of the problem then changing sprag all the time. But do consider getting the auto de-comp checked out.

More for my understanding, and to separate lore from fact.
I'm talking about kickback, not rebound. 5 deg BTDC should not result in it. Need to check out the static timing.

Though I dont think the auto decompressor can help with kickback, how does one check it out? I mean other than checking for free movement of the weight, and spring length-tension (if these values are available).

Originally Posted by aussigreg

Sutripa,
...
I'm missing piece of the puzzle though, are there government restrictions on international bike brands and engine capactity in india? I can't figure why you would put up with long waiting lists quality failure and poor back up if you could buy a Harley Sportster or Kawasaki W800.

We have a non-tariff barrier. Any bike <800 cc being sold in here needs to be homologated by the India authority. For >800, the country of origins homologation is accepted. And we have some pretty tough emission norms.

Homologation is a long drawn out process. Given the expected volumes, most foreign manufacturers have not bothered with the homologation part, or reworking to meet emission norms. Result:- lack of foreign bikes, esp the 600s.

Another thing to be kept in mind is that abroad, the bike is a recreational/ lifestyle product, and priced to match. It is the (cheap) car which is the commodity item. Here a bike priced on par with a car will not generate numbers.

The Jap big three sell their liter bikes here for brand building purposes. HDs are also available. Neither the W800, or the Triumph Bonnevilles are. Sub 800, only Kawasaki (250R, ER6F) and Hyosung (650s) are there.

There is talk of Triumph coming in with its Thai built bikes. Lets see.

I mentioned the shop manual to emphasise that it is the attitude/ mindset which is the actual problem. (Incidentally, it is done to keep the dealers happy).

Lets close the discussion on RE, its product quality and practices. It is not productive.

Regards
Sutripta

[smoghe]

@Sawyer

Your comment on riding in too high a gear for the road speed being harmful, really got me thinking.

In sticking to under 50 kmph speeds for the first 500 km, I might have been doing my bike a huge dis-service.

For the first 200 kms I never even switched to 5th gear because for 50 kmph, 4th seemed to be sufficient to me. Based on the recent posts, I have slowly started taking the bike to around 60 kmph and while doing so I switch to 5th gear somewhere over 50 kmph.

Can someone please share a gear to speed chart for the benefit of newbie's like me?

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by smoghe

@Sawyer

Your comment on riding in too high a gear for the road speed being harmful, really got me thinking.

In sticking to under 50 kmph speeds for the first 500 km, I might have been doing my bike a huge dis-service.

For the first 200 kms I never even switched to 5th gear because for 50 kmph, 4th seemed to be sufficient to me. Based on the recent posts, I have slowly started taking the bike to around 60 kmph and while doing so I switch to 5th gear somewhere over 50 kmph.

Can someone please share a gear to speed chart for the benefit of newbie's like me?

More than a chart, what is important is to develop some feel for what the engine is doing. This is quite easy - when your road speed drops, you will find the bike struggle to regain speed in the same gear. That struggle is where the engine suffers the most, and to be avoided, by dropping a gear or two or as many as required. Preferable before it struggles, but doing this as soon as you notice it is pretty good going. And even more important if you are climbing the slightest slope. The noise of high rpm may stress the ears, but the engine can take it in short bursts when new, a lot more than it can take the struggle to pull along in low rpm for the road speed/load. What you don't want to do is sustained high rpm on a new RE engine - short bursts are not only fine, but desirable. What you also don't want to do is to run in the bike at steady rpms/speeds, but move up and down the range to allow running in to happen well.
For the modern cars and bikes, this isn't so much of a concern because of tighter manufacturing processes, but the RE still demands it. In a sense the manufacturing process of each bike gets completed by the new owner. One benefit of this is that you can, if an owner of new bike, end up having a bike that is much better in performance and reliability, than the one owned by average Joe, based on how well you run it in.
And, change the engine oil/clutch oil frequently. RE engines love that

[reswaran]

The one thing I'm pretty disappointed about my C5 is the paint quality and the rusting. What do you guys do to keep paint glossy and rust under control? Any place in Bangalore where you can get some "paint treatment" or "rust treatment", like the 3M treatment stuff they do on cars ?

[smoghe]

@Sawyer

Thanks. I was going by what feels right - but since I am new, not just to RE, but to the world of geared motorcycles as well, I was playing it too safe when it comes to switching gears and was also treating the bike much more gently in terms of revving up the engine. I'll keep in mind your suggestion on short bursts of high rpm during the running-in. Although I was constantly changing speed; because of my gentle handling, I was not running it at different rpm's. I have already completed 300 kms driving this way, will try and correct it for the next 200 kms. Thanks!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by smoghe

@Sawyer

I have already completed 300 kms driving this way, will try and correct it for the next 200 kms. Thanks!

You are welcome. Remember too, that the 500 kms isn't like a digital limit, the running in requirements continue for some time more, tapering off gradually. It can take up to 2000 kms for a new RE engine to be fully bedded in, to perform to the designed spec.

[aussigreg]

Originally Posted by smoghe

@Sawyer

Your comment on riding in too high a gear for the road speed being harmful, really got me thinking.

In sticking to under 50 kmph speeds for the first 500 km, I might have been doing my bike a huge dis-service.

For the first 200 kms I never even switched to 5th gear because for 50 kmph, 4th seemed to be sufficient to me. Based on the recent posts, I have slowly started taking the bike to around 60 kmph and while doing so I switch to 5th gear somewhere over 50 kmph.

Can someone please share a gear to speed chart for the benefit of newbie's like me?

The c5 doesn't have a tacho and if you concentrate on your speedo you'll end up hitting something so here's a beginners guide to gear changes if the bikes is run in or not.

Take the bike out on a clear stretch of road, work your way up to 70km/h in top gear. Get used to the sound of the engine between 70 and 80. The rev it's doing at 80 in top is a good gentle rev to change all your gears up smoothly. This is the sweet spot for the 500 UCE, it's producing power without over-reving or lugging. You can't hurt the motor at this rev range regardless of what gear or speed that works out to be in that gear. It's the smoothest spot in it's range, the motor is talking to you saying "hey I'm cruising just here".

Continuously less than this rev will see the engine gum up with carbon, and ride at higher revs where the vibrations are coming strong through the handgrips and the motor is telling you something else.

[smoghe]

@aussigreg

Thanks. This is a good alternative to make up for the absence of a tachometer. Will try this out soon.

[sudipta]

All,

Do you at all suggest that we use any fuel additives for C5? (Like ford suggested System G for my Ikon from day 1) Or for that matter any special fuel if you would recommend (i.e. Speed or high octane)

I just crossed 300 kms with my bike and I am following all the great advices from this thread to run it in the best possible way.

[reswaran]

Originally Posted by sudipta

All,

Do you at all suggest that we use any fuel additives for C5? (Like ford suggested System G for my Ikon from day 1) Or for that matter any special fuel if you would recommend (i.e. Speed or high octane)

I just crossed 300 kms with my bike and I am following all the great advices from this thread to run it in the best possible way.

Pointing to earlier post by Randhawa:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ml#post2258907

I used STP Fuel Injector and Carburetor Treatment:
STP® Fuel & Oil Additives - Choose The Best Fuel Additive For Your Car
which is the most freely available that I've seen.
Contents:
Petroleum Distillates
Trimethylbenzenes
Naphthalene
Petroleum Oils
Proprietary Additive

[sudipta]

Thanks reswaran for pointing me to the earlier post of Randhawa. I just called the Wuerth salesman and asked him for a can of Petrol additive and high quality Chain Lubricant (seems like the Yamaha charges Rs. 110 to use this product on their bikes) which he will deliver it to my office on Friday. Needless to mention he gives me all at the dealers price.

He also told me that the additive comes in a 250 ml can which is for 55 lits of petrol and once used, the effect stays for 3 months. I am not sure on this point as most of the fuel additives are recomended to be used regularly. Any thoughts from anyone?

[adises]

I tried to adjust the idling of my bike based on previous replies on this post. However, I am unable to even figure out which screw it is that has to be adjusted (even after looking at the photo on this post with an arrow pointing to the general location).

Can someone please humor me and mark out the screw that needs to be turned to lower the idle speed of the bike. Right now my bike is set to a very high speed and it sounds like a sewing machine at signals.

Sorry for the horrible image quality, its a cellphone camera.