[shankar.balan]

great inputs.

actually youve done the right thing - nowadays one can happily buy some super used cars in the marketplace at very reasonable prices - so buying used could mean one ends up with a vehicle from a much higher segment than one can afford Brand New!
the only tail-spin is the maintenance etc but if, like you, one is patient, one is bound to find a first class deal!
all the best!

Originally Posted by narayanang76

BHPins: Happy to find the right thread and discussion at the right time.

From 2006 I have been happily using a used car (Maruti Zen 2001 Aug LX model) in stock condition and I feel that the car had been (and have been) maintained very well.
==============
I feel that hence the upgradation related impact with me is minimal compared to the case if I had upgraded to a 'NEW CAR in C-SEGMENT or ANY NEW CAR'

Thanks and Regards,
narayanang76

[narayanang76]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

great inputs.

actually youve done the right thing - nowadays one can happily buy some super used cars in the marketplace at very reasonable prices - so buying used could mean one ends up with a vehicle from a much higher segment than one can afford Brand New!
the only tail-spin is the maintenance etc but if, like you, one is patient, one is bound to find a first class deal!
all the best!

Thanks for the wishes shankar.balan, I always wanted to tell you this one day, I had read your reviews on scorpio LX (on some other forums - something on your COORG trip?), seen the pics and downloaded them and had your scorpio pics as a wall paper on my laptop for some time, excellent vehicle you got and you have maintained superbly well! If not this car, your reviews and your many posts in TBHP about Scorpio could have drawn me towards SCORP (if I was going for a NEW CAR), sorry to say CAR here!

Regards,
narayanang76

[Switch]

Few days ago i read a facebook update from one of my friends "Car EMI getting over. Have to buy a new car. Family Policy" and i was like WTH. What kind of policy is this. As GTO rightly pointed out in the first post the life without EMI's is just amazing.

I currently own three cars out of which non are on EMI's(Santro 06, Viva 07, Swift D 09). The oldest one is a 5 yr old Santro with almost 90K on the Odo. I really want to get myself a SUV(Scorpio, Innova in that segment) but then again i am holding myself back as i want to enjoy this period where the EMI is not hanging over my head. The engine of the Santro tells me that it has good 50K left in it if maintained properly and by god i will get them out of it .

[Delta Wing]

Referring to my previous post on second hand car as first choice.
The downside to economic freedom of no EMI (restating the obvious) car ownership are:
-driving around in an old car (for some, loss of status)
-driving an outdated model (Attila the Hun in a fashion show? LOL)
-fear of being stranded, at least till the car proves itself
-poorer (read junkyard-worthy) resale at the end of use
-more trips to the garage meaning more good money over old

So, given my experience, I fared well and my car still runs happily but it may not be the same for others for whom reliability is a bigger priority. However, the simple economy is too enormous a consideration for me and if a very good car is available at a low price, that's the way.
Another option is to apply converse to GTO's logic and do a reverse upgrade. For a new car of 8 Lakhs, I need let's say ~2 Lakh for down payment. Rather than buying a new car on down payment and paying some bank a hefty EMI (which would cost me much more to service than the price of new car ), I could buy a second hand car in a single payment of upto 2 Lakhs and then I could have invested 15,000/- in say, a recurring deposit per month (as an imaginary EMI which I pay myself and not to banks) for my future upgrade. In 5 years, this investment would give me 15000 x 12 x 5 = 9 Lakhs of principal and interest ~ 2 Lakh so total 11 Lakh (or more according to the shrewdness of investment). That would give me purchasing power of buying the best C segement car (assuming inflation) after 5 years, off the shelf, and no EMI. But then again, if at that point, I take a loan for even 6 Lakhs, then my corpus becomes a whopping 17 Lakhs (ahhh, the Accord..) and this time, I pay an EMI to the bank (or maybe not, if choose to go the second hand way again).
The worry left is of running cost entailed by a bigger car of D segment. Well, add a mere 1000/- to my imaginary EMI and that would be satisfactory.
At the end of the day (a looong day of 5 years in which I suffer an old car), I remain with two cars, one very old (no point in selling it for peanuts and I would be very attached to it) and one very very new (to which I'll get attached quickly).
The only trouble is, I do this calculation now in hindsight, after 3.5 years of owning the old esteem. So the imaginary EMI remains very much imaginary, I can maybe conjure the 2 Lakhs of a down payment...so, anyone working in bank, how about a loan? hehe. But maybe, I could just buy a second hand OHC VTEC today (am sure won't suffer a day in it) and start paying myself that EMI eh? Who knows what dream car may come after 5 years?
What a great thread. Thanks GTO.

[SmartCat]

Car is probably the only form of transport that is replaced by its owner after 5 years. Aircrafts and ships are used for 30 years before the owner decides to scrap them. Train engines & battle tanks are run for 20 years while trucks and buses run merrily for 15 - 20 years.

I have decided to buy my next car in the year 2014 - a 4 year old fully loaded Tata Aria! How does Tata engines/cars fair in terms of reliability in the long term? I have seen a couple of Tata Indica taxis with 200,000 kms on the odo.

I currently use a 2004 Optra LT - bought for Rs. 11.3 Lacs, and was offered Rs. 2.3 Lacs by a second hand car dealer. I almost punched him in the face for quoting that amount.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Car is probably the only form of transport that is replaced by its owner after 5 years. Aircrafts and ships are used for 30 years before the owner decides to scrap them. Train engines & battle tanks are run for 20 years while trucks and buses run merrily for 15 - 20 years.

A car may be sold by its first owner at an averaged 5 year mark. However, it will continue service for many years into the future.

I have decided to buy my next car in the year 2014 - a 4 year old fully loaded Tata Aria! How does Tata engines/cars fair in terms of reliability in the long term? I have seen a couple of Tata Indica taxis with 200,000 kms on the odo.

That's some planning on a yet-to-be-launched vehicle man!

I currently use a 2004 Optra LT - bought for Rs. 11.3 Lacs, and was offered Rs. 2.3 Lacs by a second hand car dealer. I almost punched him in the face for quoting that amount.

Similar situation to Rudra Sen's. Best for you to continue using the Optra.

[SmartCat]

Yeah, I have read about Rudra Sen's Optra!

Maintenance cost for a 5 yr old Civic/Optra/Corolla/Octavia/Elantra for the next five years might vary a lot, and Rs. 1.5 Lacs might be the figure for a really lucky guy(who has done some really good deeds in his previous life). For most others, it could be a lot higher - especially if the car is used regularly.

That's because there are lots of quality related variables. The A/C compresor might pack up (Rs. 50k) or the ECU might decide to die - these are not the usual wear-and-tear items. Plus, the old car might need new alloys (Rs. 40k) and paint job (Rs. 40K).

When I did a similar XL sheet calculation (old Optra Vs new top end diesel versions of i20/Punto/Fabia) a few months back, I had considered a maintenance cost of Rs. 50k/year. Even with that number, old Optra with its petrol guzzling low FE still won handsomely against diesel sipping ultra efficient small cars [I had considered a monthly run of 1500 km in my calculations]

[srikanthns]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

The premise is the calculation for an upgrade (sale old car option).
==============
Considering the first owner paid ~ 6L for the car (5.5 price + 0.5 maintenance) to drive 69 K km and I pay 2.8 L to drive 81 K km, who's got the runaway deal? So back to GTO's point, what is the viability for the seller?
I'll give a counterpoint to this next...please provide your views.

I am a newbie here and I think I found the right thread. I bought a 1999 April Carb ZEN LX for 1.2lakh. FOund that all 4 tyres as bald as my grandpa's pate and had them replaced at a cost of 9000 (Bridgestone 145/70/R13). PLus the regular maintenance on takin the car was another 8000/- . The car had 72K on the Odo. The problem is that I am the third owner. The second owner, who bought it from DElhi told me that it had 52 K on the Odo in 2005 and he has driven it the rest 19 K in 4 1/2 years. Since I am learning car driving , I am unable to find any problem with the car and people who are experienced say the car is "smooth". DO you see this as a good deal? How much more you think life isthere in this car since it is almost 11yrs old?

[Delta Wing]

Originally Posted by srikanthns

...bought a 1999 April Carb ZEN LX for 1.2lakh. FOund that all 4 tyres as bald as my grandpa's pate and had them replaced at a cost of 9000 (Bridgestone 145/70/R13). PLus the regular maintenance on takin the car was another 8000/- . The car had 72K on the Odo. The problem is that I am the third owner.
..DO you see this as a good deal? How much more you think life isthere in this car since it is almost 11yrs old?

I don't anything wrong with your deal (prices always vary depending on car condition) so long as you've shown it to a mechanic and the engine etc is fine. Cars can easily run to 150K without major problems if maintained well. 11 years old car should easily last 4-5 years more with moderate driving. But show it to a good mechanic and get the necessary overhauls done up.

[srikanthns]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

I don't anything wrong with your deal (prices always vary depending on car condition) so long as you've shown it to a mechanic and the engine etc is fine. Cars can easily run to 150K without major problems if maintained well. 11 years old car should easily last 4-5 years more with moderate driving. But show it to a good mechanic and get the necessary overhauls done up.

Thank you for your appreciation of the problem. Since I am a noob driver, it was driven from Ernakulam to Trivandrum (in Kerala) , a distance of 230 Km by an experienced colleague who said he did not see any problem in the car. Though I was only the passenger, I thought the ride was smooth. THe initial overhaul only took the other 8000Rs! Hope to ride it for one or two years before even thinking of changing to either a new or second hand car again!

Originally Posted by yaser_cyclist

Hi All,

Hats off to GTO for such an awesome thread, definetly makes you think and very valid points.
===============
A little dent, a slight rattle shouldn't bother much. You would love her for what she is and never COMPARE her with any other thing.

Once again - To Each His Own.

Very good and perceptive observations! I am a new member here and that is why the response is so late considering the date of the thread! Reminds me of the "Zen and the art of motor cycle maintenance" book where concepts of life and machine are inter twined throughout the book

[srikanthns]

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

Our first car is the 1995 White Maruti 800 that I bought in 2004 with Odo reading 50K. Though I had learnt driving beforehand the kilometers on the driving seat grew only on this car. My brother had learnt driving on this and, hold your breath, my father at 65 did so. It is still going strong at 98K on the odo, taking in its stride plenty of abuse, especially from my father.

.

I learnt car driving at the age of 45 and I thought I was over the hill considering my reflexes to the needs of the city traffic! But your post above gives me immense encouragement! Thanks !

[vineet_k21]

For last few days, have been thinking about selling my beloved Santro replacing with some other hatchback. Hatchback because it's used by my wife and dad who prefer a small car.

Options are to get a brand-new to avoid taunts from my wife since I awared myself a Linea few months back (after driving Santro for @60 k Km) or to go for a used hatchback since it's driven by our driver these days. It's heartbreaking enough to see our driver doing atyachaars on my santro so can't risk a new car with him!

But now going by this thread, I probably don't need to do anything at least for next 2-3 years...and this is the best part!!!

But there is a niggling thing which I need to attend very urgently. When I did the customary 60k km servicing when odo reading was 58k, Hyundai mechanics suggested me to change the original tyres immly which didn't show that much wear & tear but as a safety precaution/best practice. And so did I! Without doing much research decided to go for tubeless ones. And man, after that I'm having a terrible time.

The issue is, there is constant air-leakage from all tyres and esp. front right. Was told it's because the original rim was made for tube-tyre and with tubeless there might be some gap. So changed that rim also but issue is still there. I would have hardly had to attend to the tyres before this change of tyre. Now almost daily the air-pressure needs to be checked and maintained. The tyre guy changed all the valves a couple of times, but still there's no respite.

Any expert advices here? That's the only annying thing which was forcing me to think of selling the car.

[yzfrj]

Originally Posted by vineet_k21

Was told it's because the original rim was made for tube-tyre and with tubeless there might be some gap.

I'm surprised to hear that.
I'm using tubeless tyre in my Zen (2000) without any problem.
It came with 12" rim worked fine on that.

Then I changed to 13" stock rim.
The "original" zen rim and the same stuff that is on Esteem and the like.

Its goes way back to 94 when these rim's were first seen.
I'm not sure if the "internal" design has changed.

Its seems a "lame" excuse from Hyundai. They do sell santro's abroad where the norm is tubeless, don't they ?

You can try making the tubeless to "tube type" (use tube with tubeless)
Most effective and cheapest solution. However I feel the problem you are
facing should't happen in the first place. Unless your rims are rusted and dented like a golf ball.

[DieselFan]

Vineet - Not sure why you are having issues with Tubeless. When the rim was changed was it changed with a new rim or used one?

Whatever may be the case do not change the tyre or make the tubeless one tubed. Go to the route cause of the problem and solve it.

[vineet_k21]

Originally Posted by yzfrj

Unless your rims are rusted and dented like a golf ball.

Not they aren't rusted that much neither dented. And hence it's all the more mysterious.