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Old 27th September 2018, 11:16   #31
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

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Originally Posted by Vikram8891 View Post
From that day till the next 5 months I was in legal hell.
Really appreciate your patience to explain the agony that you went through by following the legal way. Your post summarized why there are so many crimes in India and why people go unethical way.

I am not supporting the unethical way, today, less than 1% goes legal way to fight the injustice happened to them and it is hell of the experience literally. The support that you get from clerks, bureaucrats, police, courts and officials responsible to fight the justice is just NIL

Imagine, if all the people go the legal and ethical way to fight their cases, the amount of load and the behavioral change in these bureaucrats to handle the remaining 99% load.

I can just say, there is absolutely no hope that anyone will get real justice. I see absolutely no hope. And finally, what is the outcome after all these ? Do you think that you get the value of the item back in the worst case ? I don't think so.

Really sad state to be in. and I do not see any solution also other than following shortcuts and get speedy short term gain
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Old 27th September 2018, 11:31   #32
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

Suggest you forgive them and let them go. Since you are in a dilemma, it indicates that one part of your brain feels they should be pardoned with some minor punishment.

Fortunately, for both the parties there were no injuries. Nine out of 10 cases such people will not improve but we have to be hopeful for that 1 % in the society. You may take an apology letter from them with their ID proofs (for peace of mind) and set them off with an official warning from the cops.
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Old 27th September 2018, 11:48   #33
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

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Originally Posted by autobahnjpr View Post
Hi,
Last week while .........I am in a dilemma. What would you do if you were in this situation?
Like many have said, if the owner and the rider has the money for the bike, fuel and the alcohol/drugs then you should press the charges and claim the damages. If you let it be now, it will not do any good to him and you. If you have him punished it may do some good to both.

If it was the other way round, they would have extracted a lot of money from you. If the rider is under 18 then you can press charges against the owner for allowing an underage person to ride the bike.

The detailed explanation behind why I am recommending you to punish the culprits is as follows.

I have faced a similar dilemma about six months back and allow me to share the scenario. I was on my Activa on way to work and a 13 year old kid in school uniform asked for a lift. I knew the school is for poor kids and I knew where he was headed (the area where many such families live) and so I agreed to give the lift to him for just 500m or so after which my way would have changed. He sat at my back and in those few mins to cover the 500m, he opened my back pack and took out my wallet and the JIO WiFi router from it. I dropped him and just two mins later I thought to check if I have taken my Office ID card or not (I keep it in my wallet). It wasn't there.

I came back to home to check if I missed my wallet as I ignored my thoughts that a kid will do such a thing. I was being soft on a innocent looking kid. I had thought about the kid stealing my wallet even when I allowed him to hop on but then I cursed myself at that moment for being too critical of someone based on their condition.

My mom told me that I had taken the Wallet and hence I realized that it was the kid. I went back on that road into that area and got hold of him. He did not have the wallet and the money but after probing him with a hard talk he agreed that he had taken it. He said he passed it on to one of his colleagues.

Took him to a police chowki near by and he agreed everything. He said he doesn't remember the number of his father. But the cops were hard in talk with him and we went to his 'Kholi'. His step mother there refused to take ownership of his deeds, asked us to take in to the jail and also told us that he is a regular offender. He agreed that he has stolen from near buy kiryana shops too many times.

We got the phone number of his father from his mother and the same number was written on the ID card of his school which he had all the time with him. He was blatantly lying that he did not remember the number of his father.

Took him to a larger police station and called in his father. All this while the kid was playing his 'Innocence' card and asking us for favor.

Now the twist, the cops asked me to make a deal with his father and let the kid go as he was a Juvenile. They refused to file the FIR saying nothing will happen as he is a Juvi

After some thought and after my Mother asked me to forgive the kid to not to spoil his future (She was a teacher for over 40 years in a Municipal school and always has had a soft heart for such kids), I asked his father to compensate me for all the loss of time and money, including the new/duplicate license renewal charges. My license was in my wallet. He asked for a time of 15 days and gave me half the amount up-front. I agreed. After 15 days his father himself called me and asked to meet. He came, asked for another 15 days to repay the money and gave me back the Wifi device. He told me that the kid had hidden the wallet somewhere and now has thrown it but he took the money. The father recovered the device and some money. I gave him the time for his honesty and later he gave me back the money.

So, I let the kid go due to the honesty of the father and his condition. He was a carpenter and did decent in his work. He had two 'Kholis' - one rented out and one he was living in. So he was a hard working person and a bit honest so far. Later I managed to get some work for him when someone was looking for a carpenter.

But the kid - the kid was dishonest, a habitual offender and habitual liar. He was not sorry for his act and knew his age was with him.

There are more details to the story above but that will be for a later time.

So in your case I do not see any reason let the offenders go as he is likely to be a repeat offender and if you let him go he will get used to it. Let him realize the consequences of his deeds and only then he may be reluctant to not to repeat it. Otherwise, in all likely hood he is likely to care zilch about this episode and move on the higher offences/crimes



-Sunil

Last edited by sunilch : 27th September 2018 at 12:03.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:11   #34
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You've started a chain of events by calling 100. Please tread carefully going forward. It isn't easy peasy to tell the cops, "hey I'm in a good mood so I drop the case."

If you have good contacts in the local police or legal profession, please take their help and sort this out.

The last thing you want is a flipped FIR that accuses a car of hitting a bike😀. It's India and anything is possible.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:22   #35
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

There are a number of posts which state that the youth need to be made to realize the enormity of the consequences of their actions. I do not disagree with that. Morally, it is indeed the right thing to do.

However, what we fail to note is that the criminal justice system in India is retributive not reformative. A jail term will invariably result in loss of any potential income & the absence of social security would mean that their families might possibly slip into poverty. More importantly, post their release from prison they will not be rehabilitated adequately. So there is a very high likelihood of these youth actually taking to crime post their incarceration ( the exposure to hardened criminals in jail makes it even worse).

This is truly a Catch 22 situation.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:42   #36
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

Its good that no one was seriously injured and it was not a fatal accident.

What if these drunkards would have hit someone and if there was a fatality?

These folks need to be punished as per the law. At least it will give them a lesson and would save a future mishap.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:46   #37
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

Difficult choice you have to make.

Like many have said, the young guys doesn't seems to be so poor since they own a 200+ CC bike and have money to get drunk. IMO if you want to leave them without pressing any charges, you have to make them pay for the damages at least. Else it will be just become a story for them to boast during their next round of drinks.

Drink and drive is a serious offence, which not only is dangerous for the self , but puts other road users in great danger. In situation like yours, if we decide to let them go that easily, how will they understand the seriousness of their mistake ?

Agreed that the jail term may affect their future adversely. If you are sympathetic towards their future, make them pay for the damages at least, even if they struggle to do so. They should remember this incident next time they think of drink and drive.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 27th September 2018 at 15:23. Reason: typo corrected
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Old 27th September 2018, 13:21   #38
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

IMO, Please take every possible action from your end to ensure punishment is delivered. I too feel for the poor parents, but just think if they had come in front of your car even if it was no fault of yours, the proceeds wouldn't have been so easy on you. You can only empathise with the parents. Not the right situation to let emotions take over. I wouldn't claim any monetary reimbursements though.
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Old 27th September 2018, 13:22   #39
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Choices have consequences, and in the long run, the truly humane thing to do would be to drive home that lesson. How and to what extent, is upto you and the authorities to figure out.
+1,

I believe the issues faced on roads here in India are the results of people making choices and not facing consequences. From the individual bribing the officials to get a license, to the official taking the bribe. Your experience is a drop in a multitude of oceans but where will change begin?
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Old 27th September 2018, 14:32   #40
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

My advice, at least please file a complaint before they do and get the acknowledgment from the cops, as the cops may not be willing for file a FIR for such a matter.

I am stating this from personal experience.

I had parked my car on the road at a designated parking spot. A young two wheeler rider who was late for work, overtook a vehicle from the left, misjudged the gap to squeeze through and collided into my car, my car suffered from a nasty hit to the rear bumper.

The rider was hurt. he was thrown of his bike, the end of his handle bar hurt his abdomen. While he was crying in pain & rolling on the road, some nosy good samaritans came to his rescue and told me it was my fault .
Thanks to a few auto drivers who were parked in an auto stand close by and were witness to the whole episode, chased the good samaritans away

Being human I inquired with the rider about his health, as he was in pain, i decided to leave the car there and took him to a hospital in an auto rickshaw & got him admitted. (My First mistake, I paid for all expenses till now as the guy claimed that he did not have money and claimed he will give it to me later).

Doctors had a look at him, after a few tests and a scan, told me that his kidney has taken the impact, though no signs of internal bleeding, looks to be bruised badly and will take a couple of weeks to recover & that he needs to be hospitalized for a few days to be kept under observation. While the rider was ok about it i was kind of tense and worked up.

Me and the rider had mutually agreed that neither of us will go to the cops.
(My second mistake).

I left the rider at the hospital, Went back to my car, drove my car to the authorized service center, filed an insurance claim claimed it was a hit and run (My third mistake). Claim was processed and car was fixed in a couple of days.

In the meantime I checked on the guy daily. he was discharged after two days. Thank god he did not ask me to come and settle the final bill.

After about 15 days i got a call from the cops. Rider has filed a so called strong complaint against me. stating that i was driving rashly which resulted in the rider getting knocked down leading to him being hospitalized.

Went to the police station, spoke to the concerned officer who showed me a copy of the complaint and said its a hit and run complaint, serious offence...blah blah blah.... He told me its better to settle out of court rather than go all the way. I was asked to speak to the riders representative. The monetary demand was absurd. It sounded like the rider did not want to work for the next couple of years.

I stayed calm. Went to my lawyer, he first listened to my version, then blasted me for not filing the complaint the same day .

Then i told the lawyer i had something which will help me "DASH CAM".

While the complaint was filed that the accident happened while i was driving, i had proof that the accident happened while i was parked in a designated parking spot, the car was stationary when the incident happened and that the fault lies entirely with the rider.

My lawyer and myself decided that we will call the rider and his accomplices to the police station to settle the matter.

We landed at the police station, rider and his accomplices were there too. After initial talk we stated that we want to file a counter complaint about them filing a false complaint, they are cheats, attempting to extort, mislead the police.

They got angry, tried to get aggressive, cops were kind of supporting them (mind you, all this in a police station).
Finally we told them the that car was fitted with a dash cam and we have recordings to prove it all. recording was shown to the cops who suddenly changed sides, they started supporting me.

While the cops were dropping all charges filed by the rider, they were not keen on taking my complaint, requesting me to compromise with the rider, that he's made a mistake....etc.

The riders supporters too immediately changed from being aggressive to begging & pleading, stating that his life will be ruined.

While all this while i had no intention to ask to be repaid for the hospital expenses because he was in a not so well to do situation financially.

I realized that me being human led this greedy guy to try and extort a large sum of money from me. I told the rider that the only way out is to pay for the hospital expenses in full, they agreed and transferred the money immediately.

My lawyer also made sure that a statement was filed in the police station by the rider, that the rider collided with my stationary car, that it was entirely his fault. and that he will not claim compensation of any sorts now or in future.

To be on the safer side, though its a hassle file a complaint first.....while the cops may not necessarily file a FIR, they may be willing to take a written complaint, make sure you have a true copy acknowledged by them.

Thank you all for your patience.

Drive/Ride safe folks.

Last edited by bblost : 27th September 2018 at 14:35. Reason: removed extra smiley. thanks
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:34   #41
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

Don't let them go away without any punishment. Make sure they remember this for a long time in their life and learn a lesson or two. First make sure you make them pay your garage bills, whatever it may be after claiming insurance. Also make sure that they get strong warning from police about what they have done. If you let them go without any punishment, high chance that they will do this again. Drinking alcohol, going triple seat, rash driving & making accident are the crimes they have done and should get punishment. I will also say that get some amount over and above your garage bills for your inconvenience and headache you had due to this. Once they have to pay hard cash for it, they will certainly remember this for some time. Just my thoughts.
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:45   #42
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

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Originally Posted by devil_for_ever View Post
I am stating this from personal experience.
The devil, (sorry, couldn't resist that opportunity ) as they say, lies in the detail. One can never be too careful at such times. But as it happens, many of us are afflicted by the sympathy bug and we end up playing into the hands of unscrupulous folks.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. That experience of yours is a life lesson for many. Thanks for sharing the story of life imitating art!

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let me bring in a story here
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:54   #43
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Originally Posted by devil_for_ever View Post
My advice, at least please file a complaint before they do and get the acknowledgment from the cops, as the cops may not be willing for file a FIR for such a matter.
Very valid point, thanks for bringing this up. So I guess it's a good thing the cops did get involved at least initially, will prevent the biker from turning around later and claiming that he was hit by the car.

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I will also say that get some amount over and above your garage bills for your inconvenience and headache you had due to this.
And on what basis? How much? Unless the court sanctions such an amount (assuming the OP is willing to go to court) I doubt there are any legal grounds for a non-judicial/police person to claim a 'fine' like this. Otherwise, can that not be construed legally as extortion?

As much as we all want to see rash drivers punished, let's please refrain from giving advice that may have no legal basis, or worse, land the people involved in trouble!
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Old 27th September 2018, 16:04   #44
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Originally Posted by devil_for_ever View Post

I stayed calm. Went to my lawyer, he first listened to my version, then blasted me for not filing the complaint the same day .
Exactly, one MUST file a complaint in such cases without fail. You never know what these crooks might come up with later. It is better to document everything in the first instance at the nearest police station.

Back in my riding days, i had once collided into a completely sloshed guy (nearby slum dweller), walking in the middle of the road towards the traffic. I couldn't see him in time and crashed into him. He was thrown down and hit his head on the ground.
I pushed my bike to the side of the road and walked back to pick the guy up as he hadn't by himself until then. All of this happened in front of a busy bus station and the bystanders said this guy was creating some commotion a while back and i should leave immediately before any of his family members turn up.

This guy had a small cut on the behind of his head and i feared the worst (read: lynching). However i refused to leave and asked a few auto wallahs to help take him to a hospital at least. Several refused out of fear and in a while an entire group of people arrived asking who did what. The mob was getting aggressive and luckily the group of bystanders stood by me and calmed the crowd saying i didn't run away while i could.

Cut to the chase, as soon as we put the accident victim into a hospital, i exchanged numbers with the family members and informed them that i was going to the police station. And i thank my luck stars that i did, the crowd followed me to the station and pitched tent outside.

The police although supportive wanted to fill their pockets which i did and managed to get a report filed. In the meantime i also contacted one of my friend, whose father used to be a Mumbai Police higher up. They sorted out things internally while i waited for about 4 - 5 hours at the station for the crowd to disperse. The police warned me not to entertain any calls from the family and ask them to speak to the police. They even insisted that i wait at the station until they leave as they might try and rob me since they had a big group.

After a few days and my visits to the hospital, the police spoke to this person and his family and got a written note signed from them, mentioning that their medical costs were borne by me and hence they have no further complaints since the person was discharged in good health. It also mentioned the persons acceptance of his fault of being drunk and jaywalking.

I though all was dealt with, but i started receiving calls from his extended family members (daughter in law, who by the way was nowhere to be seen until the person was in the hospital), asking for money since they had to pay for hospital visits, medicines, etc. I just asked them to report the matter to the police station and in a few days the calls stopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devil_for_ever View Post

They got angry, tried to get aggressive, cops were kind of supporting them (mind you, all this in a police station).
In my case it was the opposite, i explained my situation to the seniors and also had a very good contact in the force, probably which helped a lot too.
The police were sympathetic and responded that this had now become some sort of business, where slum dwellers purposely let their small kids play on main roads. That way, in case of even minor accidents an entire mob turns up demanding a large sum, which they later split.
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Old 27th September 2018, 16:07   #45
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Default Re: The Accident Victim's dilemma - Drunk biker rams into my car

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Offenders & law breakers, in any sphere of life, do not respond to leniency with reforming their habits.
I second V.Narayan's thoughts. I live in the same part of the country as you and see a fair few of these types. I always tell my wife to give them as wide a berth as possible, since they are literally an accident waiting to happen!

As long as you have a decent support system where you live (people whom you can call to back you up in the event that these guys decide to try bullying you) I think you should go the formal complaint way and claim for damages as well.

Slightly OT, I am curious to know how you were able to determine the 'under the influence of drugs' part? Alcohol I can understand but is there are an easy to way to find out drug influences?
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