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Old 16th June 2019, 18:17   #31
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy



Jump to 3:05 for rollover test, curtain airbags deploy even before the car has any major impact, they probably have some sort of lean angle sensor to deploy the curtain airbags.

Comparing a Volvo to Innova might not make sense, but at 27L+ one does expect it to have good active safety feature.
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Old 16th June 2019, 19:16   #32
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I don't agree, what's the point of 7 airbags, if only a frontal impact can deploy them? The side airbags are for side impact too.

And from the looks of it, the front bumper from one side is ripped off, that is enough reason for them to deploy.
Look at it another way. The passengers were safe, perhaps the airbags were intelligent to assess the impact and decide that there was no need to activate
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Old 16th June 2019, 19:33   #33
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

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Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra View Post
Today it was my Toyota. Tomorrow, it could be yours.

And Toyota Motor Corporation, I will see you in Court.

Thank God nothing serious happened to anyone in the vehicle. More than the airbag deployment, the chasis should not get deformed during an impact. The cabin space should remain intact. Good that you made sure kids were wearing seat belts. This decision probably saved their life

Can you get hold of the driver of the other car and file a case against him for negligent and endangering others life? I see more and more people in India driving without any commonsense and putting others in dangerous situation. ( I recently moved to Hyd and I see 90% of drivers doing the same merging NH65 without even looking around )

Driving schools should provide more simulator training test exposing common road side incidents. Without completing this course, RTO should not issue license
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Old 16th June 2019, 20:13   #34
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Airbag deployment is incredibly complicated.

The main issue is that consumers think of airbags as soft air-filled pillows that magically appear just in time to save you.

The reality is that airbags are highly dangerous controlled explosions that should trigger ONLY under specific conditions - otherwise they could do more harm than good.
Totally agree with Rehaan here! Airbags explode at speeds of 300-400 kmph, which may be fatal if the passenger is too close to it - maybe even by an inch or two! That is why airbags (Secondary Restrain System) do not deploy if the passengers are not wearing seatbelts (Primary Restrain System)! This is also the reason why they warn us not to install child seats in front seats with airbag equipped cars!

The fact that the passengers have escaped largely unhurt is reassuring. We know that the car rolled over three times - but we do not know at what speed! The passenger cabin has been pretty well preserved. I wish there could be an investigation that Toyota could conduct and tell us the exact reason behind the airbags not deploying. Would give some kind of closure to the OP, who is justified in feeling frustrated/cheated with the whole airbag fiasco.

Last edited by Geo_Ipe : 16th June 2019 at 20:21.
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Old 16th June 2019, 21:58   #35
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

I had a severe frontal impact in US I was driving Corolla and crashed into a parked car(my mistake) at 40mph and the airbags did deploy but my face did not even touched the airbag.
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Old 16th June 2019, 22:08   #36
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Airbag deployment is a complex algorithm, mainly side airbags trigger in t bone collisions or intrusions into the cabin. The manufacturer would be able to explain better about this issue.

What was the speed at which this accident occured and if another car entered through a slip road, would the driver of the Innova have judged the situation appropriately? Side impact collisions are also highly caused by negligence and failure to yield to other vehicles entering main carriageways. Please be sure of all these aspects before proceeding legally.

Driving an SUV or MPV with a heavy ladder frame chassis on faster roads does come with higher chances of rollovers. One needs to exercise caution and drive at appropriate speeds. As we all know, Indian roads are one of the deadliest in the world and this is another reminder to drive defensively and safely.
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:15   #37
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
...
Any idea what is the cost differential between the two types of ECUs and what types of cars have the high end ECU?
In the Indian context I think only the luxury segment has them but I am not too sure.

I can't mention a price differential here and even if quoted here won't make sense as an absolute number, but at an OEM level every rupee / dollar counts. As with all parts in the auto industry, it also depends a lot on volumes, standardisation, etc.
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:29   #38
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

At the outset glad to hear that all occupants emerged out safe from such a disaster.

Non deployment of airbags due to non activation of a sensor is too naive for me to accept. Silliest of smartphones have in built accelerometers which sense every step you take, a 3 million machine will certainly have better than that and surely it knew when it was toppling over. So either the airbag ECU knew that such a crash does not merit deployment, redeemed by the fact that the passengers came out relatively unscathed and if such is the case than hats off to Toyota and the guys who wrote the algo. But if its any other way then Toyota has helluva lot to answer.

I reserve my judgement till more facts emerge in the case, but like Mahindra responded in XUV case can we get Toyota to respond, even a little concocted tale from OEM will give out a lot and will go a long way in better understanding of the subject for all of us besides contributing a lot towards road safety.

A real life incidence comes to my mind. My just out of teens son was driving the car. As expected he was little aggressive on the road even though I have always told him that I have 'I Drive Safe' sticker on the back and he has to keep my reputation intact when he drives my car. The car was relatively new then and he was pushing it on the highway, for the first few times I gave it to his young blood then when he was unwilling to cool off to the level I wanted, a question came to my mind. I asked him what assurance does he have on the brakes of the vehicle he was driving, I elaborated that what is the probability that the brakes of his vehicle will always behave and stand by him and bring the car to halt whenever he needed. He said almost 100 percent as he was an accomplished driver and anticipate well in time. I asked him will he be more assured if he was sitting in a Merc Tristar, he said 'yes', he will be fully assured.

I realised the reason as to why he was driving the way he was, I have driven for last almost 50 years from a Zetor tractor to a Shaktiman to a Q5 and I have never had 100 percent assurance on my brakes, to me this figure almost never exceeds say about 70%. It is not dependent on the machine I am sitting on or the road or place I am driving in, it's the trust I have in a machine to behave in a manner the way I want and when I want. I am happy this way as this principle has kept me from harms way till now.
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:31   #39
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Over the years, the first world has also improved infrastructure to minimize accidents- good barriers on the highways, good medians, under-run bars on trucks, etc., With some improvements in signaling and intersection design, US has significantly reduced the number of fatal T-bone crashes. There are many parameters calculated before airbag deployment. This is probably to avoid potential lawsuits.

The problem in our country is that a combination of conditions like non-standard infrastructure and bad driving creates more chances for impacts in different angles. If you want to be protected from each and every type of crash, please drive a military tank.

Coming to the million dollar question- can companies redesign airbags to meet the unique crashes in India? The answer is YES!

Will they? The answer is NO- it costs a lot of money to do a lot of research.
Apologies but I fail to understand how airbag deployment is linked to Indian conditions. While I agree that conditions here increases the probability of an accident, the physics behind any accident remains the same. Why would a manufacturer redesign airbags for India? Even if that is the case, they shouldn't be selling airbag equiped cars at all till they redesign the system.
I think the OP has a genuine grievance.
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:41   #40
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra View Post
And Toyota Motor Corporation, I will see you in Court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Check out this accident from a couple of years back. Here all 7 airbags deployed.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post4013364 (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review)
Aasheesh, as per the record I can see your Innova was registered on 29th June 2016. And as per the details from the other post, that Innova seems to be registered in the first week of July 2016. So, I believe, there should not be any difference between the Airbag system installed on both the cars. Comparing photos of both the cars after the accident, I am convinced that Airbag system didn't work as expected in your Innova.

As a customer, we don't have to understand the technical details of the Airbag system. Manufacturer(Toyota) promised a functionality(Airbags for safety) which didn't work. There is a high probability of you winning the case given that you provide all the needed information to the Panel. All the best .
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:42   #41
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
I can't mention a price differential here and even if quoted here won't make sense as an absolute number, but at an OEM level every rupee / dollar counts. As with all parts in the auto industry, it also depends a lot on volumes, standardisation, etc.
Whatever be the price, I'm sure that the Innova is one car that is least effected by price hikes. So Toyota can't give that reason as an excuse for going for a cheaper ECU.
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Old 16th June 2019, 23:54   #42
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

A pretty tough problem to crack in court, the essential question being "would airbag deployment have lessened the injuries? Or increased them"? Of course, OP will be of the former opinion, while Toyota would assume the latter stance. All arguments being just probables & conjectures, it's near about impossible to arrive at an objective conclusion.

Last edited by superbad : 16th June 2019 at 23:57.
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Old 17th June 2019, 01:01   #43
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra View Post
Yesterday, there was accident involving my car, a Toyota Innova, and another vehicle (a white Hyundai) near Ludhiana. My car was being driven by my driver and in the backseats were my two nephews.
First of all good to hear that your nephews are doing fine which is the most important thing, air bags or no air bags period.

I feel your concern but end of the day, top end or not the vehicle has kept the passengers safe.

Hope you get the answer what your searching for from Toyota and update the thread for wider benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superbad View Post
A pretty tough problem to crack in court, the essential question being "would airbag deployment have lessened the injuries? Or increased them"? Of course, OP will be of the former opinion, while Toyota would assume the latter stance. All arguments being just probables & conjectures, it's near about impossible to arrive at an objective conclusion.
I agree. Some of the pics posted for comparison (of less severe accident but airbags being deployed) is really not an apples to apples comparison where a vehicle has overturned multiple times.

Would it be easier to rescue the passenger if the air is deployed and car has turned turtle? Is it a fire hazard? Would the deployment of airbags further reduce the injuries caused?

We may never know unless Toyota gives an official statement ( would they?)
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Old 17th June 2019, 01:04   #44
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Reference from a research paper:
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-f2f7993af786405689416d0f0f80671b.jpeg

Source

Last edited by Rehaan : 18th June 2019 at 17:35. Reason: Putting image on new line & adding source.
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Old 17th June 2019, 01:20   #45
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

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Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
Apologies but I fail to understand how airbag deployment is linked to Indian conditions......the physics behind any accident remains the same.....
I'm not singling out Indian conditions here. I meant that the most commonly occurring collisions are head-on and T-bone and airbags are only designed for those type of impacts.

The physics of each and every accident is different. There are many parameters the ECU take into consideration before deploying airbags as they are controlled explosions which can be fatal. So, the airbags deploy for a narrow range of values to prevent injuries.

If they need to provide protection in every possible accident, they'd need to be extensively redesigned or one would rather drive a tank. Over the years, the first world has made changes to its infrastructure to almost eliminate most types of accidents. It is very hard to eliminate the head-on collision and the T-bone, so airbags are potential saviors there.

I think there needs to be some recording of crash data to understand what are the common accidents and how they can be mitigated by improving infrastructure. Also, driver education is key. The best safety device in a car is a driver who can drive safely.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 17th June 2019 at 01:22.
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