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Old 17th June 2019, 01:57   #46
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Apologies if I have missed the answer to my question in any of the previous posts but anyway I'm asking it here:

Does the Innova Crysta come equipped with a "Rollover detecting sensor"?

An excerpt from the Hyundai Creta's Owner's Manual:

Quote:
Although the driverís and front passengerís air bags are designed to inflate in frontal collisions, they also may inflate in other types of collisions if the front impact sensors detect a sufficient impact. Side and curtain air bags are designed to inflate in side impact collisions, but they may inflate in other collisions if the side impact sensors detect a sufficient impact. Also, the side and curtain air bags are designed to inflate when a rollover is detected by a rollover sensor (if equipped with rollover sensor).


Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-screenshot_20190617014328__01.jpg

Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-screenshot_20190617014602__01.jpg

What does the owner's manual of the Innova Crysta say?!
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Old 17th June 2019, 05:03   #47
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Apologies if I have missed the answer to my question in any of the previous posts but anyway I'm asking it here:

Does the Innova Crysta come equipped with a "Rollover detecting sensor"?

What does the owner's manual of the Innova Crysta say?!
The basic questions that get lost in the emotions. We need to understand how a specific car's Supplementary restraint systems are designed.

Fundamental questions being,
1. How did the car's structure perform/protect?
2. Did all the required restraint systems perform/protect as designed?
3. Did any of the structure or restraint systems show design flaws or limitations necessitated by cost-cutting?

A proper investigation by qualified technicians (From the automaker and/or external safety experts) is required. Would that happen? I hope it does. Because I don't know what happened to the Mahindra XUV500 crash in which Airbags didn't deploy.

Link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post4442405 (XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured))

P.S: Perhaps now is a good time for people reading this thread to go and read their car manual and check what it says about SRS. I did that only after reading the XUV500 crash thread. There may be a gap between our expectations and what the car is designed to do.
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Old 17th June 2019, 07:28   #48
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Sir, I don't want to comment anything on the car as I'm no expert and don't understand the sensor trigger is calibrated. But, if not already done, please get all the 3 of them see a doctor for any internal injuries.
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Old 17th June 2019, 08:37   #49
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
The basic questions that get lost in the emotions. We need to understand how a specific car's Supplementary restraint systems are designed.

Fundamental questions being,
1. How did the car's structure perform/protect?
2. Did all the required restraint systems perform/protect as designed?
3. Did any of the structure or restraint systems show design flaws or limitations necessitated by cost-cutting?
+1 to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasheeshchopra View Post
The intention of this post is to show everyone who has a Toyota, that none of the airbags opened. Everyone was wearing seat belts and my car is regularly serviced at the Toyota Jalandhar workshop. The car had no indication of any airbag fault.
Dear Aasheesh Chopra,

First we are all grateful that all occupants are safe. As Dieselritzer says get them checked by a doctor for any internal injuries. It is always a good precaution. I can understand you are angry and this is indeed a sensitive and emotional moment especially with young children involved. To expand on what kiku007 has said - a car protects its occupants through many means - crumple zone - crumple and absorb the impact energy; strength of the passenger cage - don't crumple and thus protect the occupants; the seat belts - primary restraint system and the airbags - secondary restraint system. Fact is even after rolling over thrice the passenger cage is intact and that plus the primary restraint system ie seatbelts kept your kids & the driver safe. The airbags bursting might (can't say for sure) have even injured the children with its explosion. Airbags are not the main safety feature they are a secondary feature and actually the last in the chain of events as it unfolds over milliseconds. So the crumple zone did its job, the cage did its job and the seat belts did their job. Only a technical person can answer why the airbags were not called upon to do their job. Nevertheless for your satisfaction and for the knowledge of all on this forum maybe you should ask Toyota this question about the airbags not inflating. My best wishes to you.

Kind regards,
Narayan

PS: Airbags need a minimum weight on the seat before deploying. I do not know the figure but a 6 or 7 year old child is usually too light and at risk of injury from the airbag.
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Old 17th June 2019, 09:18   #50
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

After having gone through this thread I can only tell you that you need to learn from this whole episode and be the better for it. The airbag system is called ‘Supplementary Restrain System’, the key word being ‘Supplementary’. It is NOT the primary safety system of the car as most people tend to believe. The job of primary safety is that of seat belts. If a child is below the age of 12 years (or their height is less than 5 feet), then the child needs to sit in a properly fastened child booster seat. It is also a big NO for a child less than 5 feet tall to sit in the front passenger seat of a car equipped with airbags. An airbag deploys at speeds in excess of 300 kmph. At such speeds it can cause serious injuries to a child sitting in the front passenger seat. Unfortunately, I see plenty of unrestrained children in cars equipped with airbags, heck, even adults don’t use seat belts in the rear in our country.

Just buying a car equipped with airbags is not good enough. You need to understand the pros and cons of the whole system and how it affects the safety of your whole family. The ‘safety’ needs to be a word indoctrinated into your thought process and not just a passing thought while buying the car.

My apologies if I come across sounding like I am lecturing you. That was not my intention.

Last edited by PratikPatel : 17th June 2019 at 09:20. Reason: Grammar
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Old 17th June 2019, 10:08   #51
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Few thoughts after reading through and thinking about the whole thing for a while -

1> Very unfortunate the accident even had to take place. Source of all the problems is that errant driver on the other car. I am not sure we can do anything to address such imbeciles except possibly reinforce our own learning on being extra careful driving on Indian roads (in particular).

2> Very fortunate that none got seriously injured and were all buckled up. I think that should also come as a reminder to most of us to follow suit.

3> The chassis of the car sure did its job. Many other popular cars might have lead to more serious damages.

4> Airbag deployment: Many good points raised and addressed above. In this case, is there a possibility that the airbag deployment might have caused more harm than good, particularly with respect to the kids?

I assume a thorough technical assessment will provide more clarity if the airbag not deploying was part of the design plan (in this specific case) or a failure.

If not deploying is part of the design (in this case), it should be appreciated for it. Else, it could have caused more damage (to kids in particular)

If it is a failure, hopefully Toyota will step up to take ownership and work towards improve the SRS system.

Wish you all speedy recovery from the traumatic accident.
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Old 17th June 2019, 10:25   #52
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

This statement by GTO sums it up to perfection:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Whatever the science behind airbags, if they don't open in such a rollover, I don't know when they will.
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Old 17th June 2019, 10:29   #53
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
But Ajit, this looks like a top-end innova.
Shouldn't the side airbags deploy even though there was no frontal impact?
Agree, irrespective of the whether there was 'right' kind of impact/collision, the airbags should deploy. If they are not deploying, car manufacturers should redesign the sensors and don't make the frontal collision the only condition to trigger it. Idea is to provide protection. If a Rs 10000 smartphone has sensors to detect orientation, a car can very well have sensors to detect a rollover and deploy the side/curtain airbags at least.
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Old 17th June 2019, 10:37   #54
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Dear aasheeshchopra

Good news that your nephews are safe and fine, and your driver had only minor injuries.
If you have the time and a reliable lawyer, please fight TKML by all means.

The manufacturer needs to be penalized for selling a car with non-functional airbag system, that too in a car costing 27L.

------------------
Reading this entire thread - am aghast at the views of so many TBhpians.
Giving unnecessary advise as if OP was born yesterday, giving technical justifications for non-deployment of airbags, etc. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet rather than say utter wisdom.
Worse, half this thread posters sounds like Toyota defenders. Really.

Instead, we all consumers will be better off if we collectively demand better Quality from the manufacturers.

A product is supposed to perform as marketed - if it doesn't, then the design limitations cannot be given as excuse.

cheers
lazy
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Old 17th June 2019, 11:48   #55
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy View Post
Reading this entire thread - am aghast at the views of so many TBhpians.
Giving unnecessary advise as if OP was born yesterday, giving technical justifications for non-deployment of airbags, etc. Sometimes it is better to stay quiet rather than say utter wisdom.
Worse, half this thread posters sounds like Toyota defenders. Really.

A product is supposed to perform as marketed - if it doesn't, then the design limitations cannot be given as excuse.
Dear @lazy, thank you for your post offering another perspective. you are entitled to your views based on your knowledge as the other members are based on their knowledge - both you and they as with each of us have limited knowledge. The angry patriarchal tone of your post implies that the other members, with a different take, are fools or worse trolls for Toyota. The quality of this forum is a function not only of the content but also the tone. Thank you for reading. - Narayan
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Old 17th June 2019, 11:56   #56
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
Totally agree with Rehaan here! Airbags explode at speeds of 300-400 kmph, which may be fatal if the passenger is too close to it - maybe even by an inch or twofiasco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
The point to note in Rehaan's post is 'should trigger ONLY under specific conditions.', which i think is absolutely correct. About 7-8 years back my colleague had a neck fracture, because airbags deployed in has car, when they shouldn't have. It was a case of a mild front end collision at slow speeds.

I am not aware of the speed of Airbags when deploy, Yes these can be harmful to the kids, but once again, in Unknown conditions in an Accident, deployment of Airbags will be far safer then Non-Deployment ..period. At least, that's what a common man like me understands and gladly pay over the non-equipped models. I am sure manufacturers also think the same way, and in this particular case, there is a miss somewhere. To me, the hit on the sides looks substantial, especially if we compare with the other one, though pictures can be deceptive and I hardly have any technical expertise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Airbags need a minimum weight on the seat before deploying. I do not know the figure but a 6 or 7 year old child is usually too light and at risk of injury from the airbag.
I don't think curtain airbags deploy ONLY if someone is sitting in the co-passenger seat, the weight of an Adult driver should be enough to trigger curtain bags in case of such hit/ rollover.
Attached Thumbnails
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-11.jpeg  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by Turbanator : 17th June 2019 at 11:59.
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Old 17th June 2019, 12:44   #57
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy View Post

Instead, we all consumers will be better off if we collectively demand better Quality from the manufacturers.
+100

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy View Post

A product is supposed to perform as marketed - if it doesn't, then the design limitations cannot be given as excuse.
Good point.
https://www.toyotabharat.com/showroom/innova/

This is the marketing material.
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-ad.png

This is apparently the fat Owner's Manual. Which part of the marketing material is misleading may I ask?
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-manual.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
I am not aware of the speed of Airbags when deploy, Yes these can be harmful to the kids, but once again, in Unknown conditions in an Accident, deployment of Airbags will be far safer then Non-Deployment ..period. At least, that's what a common man like me understands and gladly pay over the non-equipped models. I am sure manufacturers also think the same way,...
Unfortunately this isn't true. It's really sad that people have such strong convictions about Airbags that they HAVE TO deploy.

I don't have access to the Innova Crysta's Owner's Manual. But I found the below one for the Toyota 4Runner,
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docu...f/OM35B46U.pdf

Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-1.png
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-2.png
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-3.png

Please read and understand that there are scenarios when Airbags at different locations in the car deploy or not deploy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
....and in this particular case, there is a miss somewhere. To me, the hit on the sides looks substantial, especially if we compare with the other one, though pictures can be deceptive and I hardly have any technical expertise.
Only the experts can investigate and let us know the truth.

For a start, it'll be great if someone can find the damn Innova Crysta's Owner's Manual and post what the hell this means, "*For more details on the functioning of Airbags please refer to the owner’s manual".

P.S: The Innova Crysta at 30L is overpriced and I can't fathom how Toyota got away with this.

Last edited by kiku007 : 17th June 2019 at 12:47.
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Old 17th June 2019, 13:05   #58
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post

This is apparently the fat Owner's Manual.
I don't have access to the Innova Crysta's Owner's Manual. But I found the below one for the Toyota 4Runner,

Please read and understand that there are scenarios when Airbags at different locations in the car deploy or not deploy.
Thanks for sharing the relevant details. Given the way how Toyota works, I will assume it should be the same on Innova as well. They will typically not save costs relating to safety equipment. What intrigues me are the reasons for the deployment of Airbags in one of the cars which see far less damage, so I am guessing, it had a high-speed crash that resulted in the deployment.

Quote:
Only the experts can investigate and let us know the truth.
Most of us guys hardly have any technical info to comment. I will say, manufacturers, try to project different things when they want to sell a product which is not exactly how they perform for whatever reasons

Found some info on the deployment in BMW cars, I am sure, manufacturers are aware of this situation on - To Deploy Or Not and the more premium ones have different ways to handle the problem including - Impact Depending Airbags

http://www.bmw.com.kh/asia/en/insigh..._front_airbags
Attached Thumbnails
Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-11.jpeg  


Last edited by Turbanator : 17th June 2019 at 13:23.
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Old 17th June 2019, 13:05   #59
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy

Been following this thread and I am sad to notice that that empathy shown here is pathetically low. The OP has just gone through a traumatic experience and his reaction is justified. I am all for Airbags not deploying when not needed but in this case, at least the side air bags should have deployed. Having said that, I will reserve my judgement until Toyota look at this case and do their analysis.

Dear Aasheesh,

Sorry to hear about your story and I am extremely glad that everyone escaped with minor injuries. Kudos to you for ensuring that the rear seat passengers were wearing the seat belt. Good luck ahead and god speed.
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Old 17th June 2019, 13:30   #60
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Don't bother!

There was no frontal impact to trigger the airbag sensors
Airbag sensor doesn't have to be crushed or impacted in order to be triggered. They work on very simple physics, sudden deceleration causes a suspended ball to close a circuit which then triggers air bag deploy. Upon hard deceleration the suspended ball has enough inertia to push the metal contacts which then to closes the circuit. For this to happen, the sensor doesn't has to be part of the impact, it just needs to decelerate along with the car.

Likewise bumpers on front of the vehicle also does not prevent air bags from deploying during a crash. Most Police cars in US always have a crash bar in front of the car for various purposes.

How air bag sensors work



Toyota Innova Crysta ZX rolls over thrice! None of the 7 airbags deploy-20190205pipdbwpiuatsouthlake11_1600x960.jpg

Last edited by khan_sultan : 17th June 2019 at 13:36. Reason: Line spacing
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