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Old 24th January 2020, 08:34   #31
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Vehicle safety is a huge topic and crash testing is but one (major) component. If a car is designed dynamically deficient, then accidents may be deadly. The western world is far ahead in its overall approach to dealing with this, hence the plethora of tests, and safety aids. As far as India is concerned, the GNCAP ratings are vital because we have a very fatalistic attitude-'jo hoga, so hoga'. Wd would rather enjoy the moments of showing off bling like AA/ACP than spend a lac more for a safe car. In such a market, it is necessary to promote this concept to the fullest extent.
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Old 25th January 2020, 08:58   #32
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Question is, who wants it?
Dont see the govt wanting it for now, else it would have made some minimum standards mandatory (like airbags ). And neither is the customer showing any interest with 3 to 4 Marutis claiming the Top 10 spot in terms of numbers, month after month.

As for car manufacturers, if 2 can do it, why cant Maruti? Cost can be pointed out as the easiest excuse, but when the intent is lacking, you end up with rattling tin cans.
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Old 25th January 2020, 09:48   #33
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Can Maruti build 5 star safe cars?

Will Maruti build 5 star safe cars?

Maruti will not make the littlest of the effort if making safe cars isn't made mandatory. Suppose safety was a primary criterion to sell cars, you will suddenly see Maruti selling safe cars.

They have the capacity to build safe cars, they just don't have the intention to do it.

Money > Morals, as always in the corporate world.
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Old 25th January 2020, 10:48   #34
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

For some countries safety is luxury while for some safety is requirement. Countries like India where own safety norms do not exist, Government can only encourage/motivate people to buy safe cars.

For example, "Mentioning of safety rating in brochure" can be made mandatory like "Untested car, NCAP 3 Star" etc. so that at-least people start being aware about how safe the car, which is being bought, is. This mentioning can also be effectively used by sales/marketing people to convince customer to buy X car over Y car.

Another option could be to provide tax benefit etc. to safe car makers so that discount can be passed on to customer to keep cost of highly safe car lower etc.
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Old 25th January 2020, 10:53   #35
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Just in case people do not know, India's biggest manufacturer have made their viewpoint on this topic very clear.

MS is clear about their priorities and its up to people to buy safe cars. Now that Tata has it, let us see how the cars sell and may be just maybe that other manufacturers will be pushed to offer better safety.
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Old 25th January 2020, 11:27   #36
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

This isn't how No.1 manufacturer in terms of volumes in a country explains.I mean blaming it on cost.and we are complying with safety regulations laid by the govt just doesn't sound logical. Instead, they should have taken the lead on the safety front.Merely adding Abs, ebd or airbags will not solve the purpose. Structural safety & stability is an important factor in a safe car. When they can produce a 4/5 Ncap rated Maruti Suzuki Vitara Brezza which ironically was first Indian car to be ICAT compliant and have Asean Ncap 5/5 S Cross which is made by Suzuki. While we have moved from a ”zero” rated cars to 3/5 one with Ignis, Swift, Baleno Indian spec but still lot needs to be done on safety aspect.If today I am looking for a Msil car I have only two choices Scross and Brezza for highway travels rest all line Up is strictly for city usage they just don't inspire confidence to me personally. Now let's see how Indian customer responds to Tata safer cars marketing. I am sure Msil India with 1.3 mjd discontinuation, Bs6 diesel flip flop ,no clear Ev strategy and now safety they are going to have tougher times ahead we do see change in customer mindset. Maruti is going the Nokia way either you have to accept the change and course correct as a leading player or just watch it over happen at the other end before it's too late.

Last edited by XRoader_001 : 25th January 2020 at 11:30.
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Old 25th January 2020, 13:26   #37
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Is Maruti capable of making 5 star rated cars? Absolutely. But why aren't they! I am reading a lot of comments (in this and other threads) about how Maruti is greedy and so profit driven, which is true and I'm sure is true for all the other companies as well. All companies want to make maximum profit and they choose their own ways (feature deletion, low investment in sales training, service and many other ways).

As much as I wish for Maruti to set an example to the others as a market leader I know that is just wishful thinking and they will only change if they see the customers demanding these features.

I think we we can all agree that Maruti really understands the 'pulse' of this country and what its customers want in their cars. They have cracked this code repeatedly for the past several years and their data clearly tells them that giving 5 star rated cars is not going to give them the best returns.

This is sadly a reflection of what our priorities are from our cars rather than the willingness or capabilities of Maruti.

Having said that Tata and Mahindra have done their market research and surely they feel that this is where the market is heading and are hoping to capitalize on that. I truly hope they double down on their bets with great/effective marketing campaigns and make safety as popular a feature as Maruti was able to do with fuel efficiency.
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Old 25th January 2020, 15:10   #38
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Building on the suggestions of some on this thread, I think it would be great to have a rule mandating an NCAP-type test for every new car / platform launched going forward, and for the rating to be prominently printed on brochures and display cars.

Manufacturers should still be free to sell sub 3-star cars if they so wish; banning "unsafe" car sales would be regulatory overreach in my view. But the safety level or lack thereof should be made explicitly visible to the consumer. Transparency rather than bans. Then let the market decide - Price vs Mileage vs ASS vs Safety.

I don't think it would be cost-prohibitive for the industry. The amount they spend in developing & launch-marketing a new car / platform, crash-tests would be just a bucket in the pond. If Tata & Mahindra (relatively small players in PV space) can spend the money, why not the rest?

Last edited by gautam109 : 25th January 2020 at 15:12. Reason: typo & grammar
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Old 25th January 2020, 17:34   #39
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Disclaimer – I admire lot of brands but not a Fanboy as such for any brand – I buy a car purely on its merits calibrated with my needs. BTW I am sucker of safety & all game for anything that can change this world into safer & better place for all.

Coming to this thread, I feel that like most MG discussion leading to Chinese is cheap end, similarly lot of threads related to car safety & Maruti lead to motherthood statements like “they are market leaders & should take lead”, “they are obligated”, “and they should be responsible/accountable”.

My take is, it’s a regulated market & as long as someone is complying with mandatory parameters expected to operate in the country of operation, it’s fair. It is not manufacturer’s fault if the standard’s set for compliance itself is low or weak.

Maruti is giving what customer wants & they are doing that consistently & profitably. More than the manufacturer, aren’t we, the consumers to be blamed to queuing up to buy these products despite the fact that there are better/safer (if that is a priority to someone) alternatives in market.

We can sit and have a healthy debate (beauty of TBHP) over moral obligations of a market leader but then again, there are multiple manufacturers as well as multiple cars to choose from; can I atleast use my freewill & empowerment to make an informed & correct choice.

We have come along a long way but still the journey has just begun with TATA & Mahindra leading the way. More than the products, bigger need is the awareness of the whole safety as a concept in cars.

MS is doing business & purely from commercial/business point of view, they are damn good at it. But, the Goliath has to bow down if David’s (all other competitors) can successfully change the customer mindset but till then, MS is happily raking in some additional moolah per car.
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Old 25th January 2020, 18:14   #40
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

It's not that they can't make, it's that they DON'T want to make. The people in charge don't care about who they sell their cars too as they themselves travel in their 5-star bunkers. All they care about is what sucks the maximum profit from their foolish customers. I call them foolish cause they have brought this on to themselves.

If people just start boycotting their cars for companies that make safer cars, I guarantee you that they'll go back to drawing board keeping build quality as the first thing in mind.

There is a famous saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"
It's the same reason that the last Maruti I bought was the first-gen Swift. Will never buy MS again until they stop taking undue advantage of the ignorant masses. Unfortunately, they never will change cause where a single person like me stopped buying their cars a decade ago, 3 new people just bought them yesterday.

Last edited by Starfire : 25th January 2020 at 18:16.
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Old 25th January 2020, 18:28   #41
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

The question on the main page is 'Can Maruti build 5-star cars?'. So let's stick to the answer

Definitely! There's absolutely no doubt about it. For a company that gave us:
  1. the iconic Maruti 800 that almost every member here would have owned or driven
  2. bullet proof reliability, top mileage, and excellent service (for most cases) plus network
  3. the aspirational and 'premium' Zen in those days
  4. introduction of the fantastic 1.3MJD to the mass market, giving us a taste of how a great diesel engine is to be used and tuned, starting with the Swift VDI
  5. the well built S-cross that won a lot of good reviews
  6. the reliable and fun to drive Swift
  7. the Dzire, Alto, and Swift that still sells like hot cakes, even after more than a decade
  8. and much more..

Do you think such a company is incapable of coming up with a 5-star NCAP rating? All it needs is a simple go-ahead 'Yes!' from the top management, and that's it - You will see 5* cars being churned out in a matter of weeks/months. I have no doubt that it will happen when they think it should happen - with a company that has had it's ear to the ground. This forum is *not* a representation of what will sell, and what the market wants. And Maruti exactly knows what matters.

Last edited by PearlJam : 25th January 2020 at 18:32.
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Old 25th January 2020, 18:46   #42
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

I certainly admire Tata and Mahindra for having chosen to try and make safety as a differentiator - by making structurally safer cars (even if they cost more) and adding air bags / ABS and other safety gear to their products. And I also think that Maruti is callous - for deliberately re-engineering cars to be less safe over time in order to reduce cost - and to use its lobbying power against safety regulations on the specious ground that it would drive costs up.

But the fact is that I also think Maruti has read the Indian consumer correctly, and Tata and Mahindra have not - which is borne out by their respective financial results. The fact is that the safety feature with the biggest bang for the buck is the seat belt - someone in the back seat of an Alto wearing a seatbelt is more likely to survive the typical crash with minimal injury than someone in an S Class who is not buckled up. And the fact is that most Indian customers do not buckle up in the rear seat - and in the front seat either except if they think a cop may catch them. Until Indian customers develop a sense of basic safety consciousness, Maruti’s death traps will continue to be the largest selling cars in India.

However, the Tata and Mahindra strategy makes sense as well. They are never going to capture the Kitna Deti Hai crowd - so might as well target your product at customers with brains.
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Old 25th January 2020, 19:32   #43
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Maruti had a 5 star rated car. Trouble is no one was willing to buy it - the Suzuki Kizashi.

So it's not as if they can't build one - it's whether they can build a cost effective 5 star rated one that can also sell.

Kizashi receives 5 star NCAP rating
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Old 25th January 2020, 19:40   #44
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Ironic is the fact that when you Google the meaning of 'Maruti' and 'Suzuki' seperately, you will get results which are related to Gods.
Maybe Maruti Suzuki is named aptly, as the manufacturers believe that occupants will be protected by Gods in the event of an accidents. For them, all this safety stuff is just a whitewash.

On a serious note, bashing Maruti Suzuki over here is of no use. They will not even move a muscle.
Remember, Maruti Suzuki got the first mover advantage when they launched 800 many decades back. If they want, they could have easily built a safest car by now.

But I want to give credit where it is due. Maruti introduced cars which were fast, reliable and fuel efficient few decades back. The cars were sufficiently cheap to buy. It made possible for many Indians to buy cars which was driver friendly and smooth; and which will never let you down in the middle of the road.
Otherwise, other manufacturers of superhit cars during those times like Premier Padmini or HM Ambassador would have continued with their merry ways and wouldn't have upgraded their products ever, and we Indians would be at the mercy of their products.

Many good cars were introduced by Maruti like Swift, Gypsy, Baleno and Omni which had its own USP. For most of the members over here, Maruti would have been the first car where we got the chance to hold the steering wheel and learn driving. I would say even many of today's generation are learning how to drive in a Maruti vehicle itself.

Now, Maruti is facing competition from other manufacturers in terms of building a safer cars. Other manufacturers have upped their game and are providing a fairly comfortable and reliable products at affordable prices. If Maruti doesn't upgrade soon enough, they will go the HM Ambassador way.

Stop bashing Maruti Suzuki cars in each and every threads and posts. We might not like their cars now, but they were part of our life in one way or the other. We made wise choices few decades back by opting for Maruti when 'reliability' was important.
Similarly, now too it is upto us to make a wise choice before buying a new car when 'safety' is important. (Reliability is a given with most of the cars out on the roads today).
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Old 25th January 2020, 20:11   #45
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Default Re: Global NCAP urges other OEMs to follow the example set by Tata & Mahindra

Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
But the safety level or lack thereof should be made explicitly visible to the consumer. Transparency rather than bans. Then let the market decide - Price vs Mileage vs ASS vs Safety.
I completely agree with you, just like electronics where the energy start label is clearly mentioned, the safety rating should be clearly visible on the vehicles so that unknown non-enthusiast folks get to know about it and make an educated and informed decision.
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