[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Mpower

OK, this is same engine as the facelift Laura M/T but not the old PD engine. Correct?

Yup.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Yes this is same engine as Laura MT. Very nice Engine with Zero lag, starts making 250nm from as low as 1500rpm.

How does this engine compare to the 140bhp DSG in terms of lag? And does the Jetta handle significantly better than the Laura?

Originally Posted by raj_srini

Checked with another dealer (Delhi Ford, Vasant Kunj). They don't have it on the price list yet and no date commitments from Ford as well. What delivery period is the dealer quoting you for SXi? I'm assuming you are referring to the Diesel version?

This is actually the petrol. There are no discounts being offered, and this is for the car with a company registration, so taxes are higher and hence the high price. I did not check about the delivery as this is my last option, however, I can find out if you so wish.

Edit: Got the A4 TD at 7Pm, and the Laura TDi DSG at 5.45pm.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by GTO

Lamborghini, if you can stretch your budget, the new VW Passat seems to meet your requirements to the T. The only downer would be an unknown long-term reliability track record. And being a complicated Euro, I wouldn't expect it to be fuss-free.

So Rush, I took your advice and TD the Passat. The car was superb, and I was quite comfortable driving it around. The understated looks were a big plus, as was the superb performance. I actually owe it to you to bring up the suggestion first, and akshay1234 for his advice as well.

Now, I need inputs from you, and other members, about why the Passat is actually worth the extra money over a superb. While the superb isn't in consideration, I still need to convince the family on this as well.
From what I have experienced, the levels of kit are more or less similar. The Passat has more power, and better interior quality, along with better dynamics.
Are there any other points though?
I was not particularly impressed with the ride quality, and am not sure how the superb would be on this parameter.

Thanks guys!
Skoda is coming up soon, followed by the Audi. However, so far, between the two, the Passat wins over the Audi. To be the final contender, it just needs to prove if it is worth the extra money over the Laura TDi.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

As for the idea of a pre-owned car, I am getting increasingly tempted by a used Civic with some mods. I found one 2010 version done 13Kkm with an asking price of 10L. Is it worth it?

No. There is not so much difference car-to-car between a 2010 Civic + 13K kms, and a 2008 + 20K for 7.75 lakhs. Or even a 2007 with 20K kms for 7.25 lakhs.

Buying used is all about value. You can get an equally good car for <8 lakh. Use the 2 lakhs saved for mods. Thanks to its outstanding reliability & fuss-free ownership, a Civic makes for an excellent daily drive. Plus, lots of mods available:

- Suspension : 50K.
- Turbo : 150 - 250K
- Brakes : 40K

The end result will be a daily-driver that's practical yet fun to drive. Ask me on my early morning 0800 hour drives to work.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

So Rush, I took your advice and TD the Passat. The car was superb, and I was quite comfortable driving it around. The understated looks were a big plus, as was the superb performance. I actually owe it to you to bring up the suggestion first, and akshay1234 for his advice as well.

I knew you'd love the Passat.

the Passat is actually worth the extra money over a superb.

When I drive the Superb, I feel like a damn chauffeur! That wheelbase is sooooooooooooo long. Note : I felt the same when driving a 7 series. A Superb is excellent if you plan to be chauffeur-driven all day long.

You are young and a Superb simply won't suit you. The Passat has a more powerful engine, some gizmos & better part quality. It's also newer. Watch out for fun times with European reliability though

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by GTO

No. There is not so much difference car-to-car between a 2010 Civic + 13K kms, and a 2008 + 20K for 7.75 lakhs. Or even a 2007 with 20K kms for 7.25 lakhs.

Buying used is all about value. You can get an equally good car for <8 lakh. Use the 2 lakhs saved for mods. Thanks to its outstanding reliability & fuss-free ownership, a Civic makes for an excellent daily drive. Plus, lots of mods available:

- Suspension : 50K.
- Turbo : 150 - 250K
- Brakes : 40K

The end result will be a daily-driver that's practical yet fun to drive. Ask me on my early morning 0800 hour drives to work.

I knew you'd love the Passat.

When I drive the Superb, I feel like a damn chauffeur! That wheelbase is sooooooooooooo long. Note : I felt the same when driving a 7 series. A Superb is excellent if you plan to be chauffeur-driven all day long.

You are young and a Superb simply won't suit you. The Passat has a more powerful engine, some gizmos & better part quality. It's also newer. Watch out for fun times with European reliability though

Haha! The Passat was actually insane!
I just drove the Laura, and to be honest was not as impressed. Maybe I would have been if I hadn't driven the Passat before.
In the Laura, specially in S mode, I found the gearbox a bit jerky when downshifting, and the suspension was oriented more towards ride than handling. While the handling was good and didn't seem to lose grip easily, there was noticeable body roll. But I guess this is one thing I can live with. Its just that I felt a whole lot more comfortable in the Passat than the Laura, but I guess thats where the extra money goes to.
Anyways, the dealer brought by the L&K Laura, and I wasn't much impressed by some of the parts. The Leather seats didn't feel all that great, and neither did some interior fittings such as the door handle. No matter how many features they might have plonked into the car, it still shared the same quality as the base variant which is nearly 8L cheaper.
Am quite aware about the superb European reliability by now, thanks to the European line-up we have in our garage. Lesser the gizmos, the more the reliability it seems.
As for the Superb, it wasn't in consideration, but just needed points to convince family about the same.

As for the Civic, that is a dream that will be realized once I save enough of money. Just something to bide away time before the Porsche dream comes true - got to dream big! It just isn't a practical car for me everyday due to the low GC and seating.

As of now, I shall be trying hard for the Passat Comfortline, and if finances don't agree with that, will either settle for a Laura (undecided trim), or maybe look around a bit. Worse case scenario, will wait and watch for a bit.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Haha! The Passat was actually insane!

That’s quite hilarious. A rank outsider (Passat) walking away with the glory
Did you do the A4 as well?

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by vb-san

That’s quite hilarious. A rank outsider (Passat) walking away with the glory
Did you do the A4 as well?

You're telling me! A car I never considered and only test drove because of GTO's and akshays comments, really surprised me.
I did check out the A4 as well, and to be honest I am very confused. For a little bit more (thanks to discounts and all), I can get the A4, which is similar to the Passat in terms of legroom, has much better interiors and quality (such as of the seats and leather), and IMO was actually a better ride/handling package. It also had a very good feel good factor, and looks badass! Plus, I can get the brown interiors which I have wanted ever since I saw them on M5 way back in 06-07!
However, on the downside, compared to the Passat, the engine isn't as much fun, and it gets a lot of attention. Heck I pulled into the drive-way, and everyone from the watchmen, to the drivers, to the guy who opened the door commented on the car.
If the finances work out to support such an expensive purchase, the only thing I would face an issue with is taking the car out with me everywhere due to its image.

Compared to the original Laura L&K I was contemplating, for a difference of 10L, I get:
- Way better interiors in terms of quality and feel good factor.
- A wider car (though this is not a pro really)
- Drop dead looks
- Sunroof
- MMI Interface
- Interiors of my choice
- Better sales and service (the Skoda guys had me running after them for a TD. One of them actually had a follow up call asking whether I got all the information I wanted, when in reality the salesperson hadn't gotten back to me at all, and still hasn't even after I was told that they would. Another said that they didn't have my correct number, after I was asked to write it down for them! Are you kidding me?!? The Audi guy was a lot more professional in terms of appearance. Even though he was running late, he kept me informed and showed up at my house at 9pm, even though he had the option of politely asking to shift to another day. He didn't rush me either.)
- And most importantly, a much better drive! The Passat handled well, but had a unsettled ride. The Laura was more comfortable, but had more body roll. The A4 was a perfect balance in this regard.

In fact, I have ruled out the Laura after much thinking as well. It just didn't feel like a big upgrade to drive from the Octavia Combi I am presently using, and to be honest, I would rather continue using the Octavia Combi and get a beater car for home than spend so much on the Laura with all its features, and added power, as it didn't feel like a big step up in terms of dynamics. I even found the engines to respond similarly in stop and go traffic which I will be facing everyday.

So as of now, it stands at:
- A4/Passat - the TD of the A4 2.0TDi is pending. Drove the 1.8TFSi today
and if it works out to be too expensive then -
- Use the Octy with a few mods, and postpone the purchase by a year or two, while keeping the Fiesta on call (use when required, as it has done 80Kkm and the suspension is slowly losing its stiffness).

How does this sound?
Trying to get the A4 2.0D tomorrow.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

So as of now, it stands at:
- A4/Passat - the TD of the A4 2.0TDi is pending. Drove the 1.8TFSi today
and if it works out to be too expensive then -
- Use the Octy with a few mods, and postpone the purchase by a year or two, while keeping the Fiesta on call (use when required, as it has done 80Kkm and the suspension is slowly losing its stiffness).

How does this sound?
Trying to get the A4 2.0D tomorrow.

Good to see the list getting narrowed down. But I reckon the A4 2.0 TDI will be almost double the amount of your initial budget.

Since you liked the Passat, I will suggest waiting until August, and having a look at the new Jetta. From the international reviews I have read, it apparently has similar quality level as the Passat (and some of the curves have close resemblance with the A4). It’s more spacious than the outgoing model, and should fit your requirement to the T. And it should cost only a bit more than the Laura.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Good to see the list getting narrowed down. But I reckon the A4 2.0 TDI will be almost double the amount of your initial budget.

Since you liked the Passat, I will suggest waiting until August, and having a look at the new Jetta. From the international reviews I have read, it apparently has similar quality level as the Passat (and some of the curves have close resemblance with the A4). It’s more spacious than the outgoing model, and should fit your requirement to the T. And it should cost only a bit more than the Laura.

Hey!
See, I am getting the Audi A4 2.0TDi for Rs. 2L more than the Passat, and I shall be looking at financing offers and such to see if I can get the price to drop down even more.
However, if even after the deals and discounts, if it doesn't fall within our reach, we might postpone the decision making by a year or two and increase the budget. Assuming that the Jetta doesn't bowl us over. I am assuming that the new Jetta will also come with the 140BHP engine, a sunroof, and better quality interiors over the Laura. However, given that the Laura is 23L OTR for us, I would expect the Jetta to command a premium over the Laura, and would be around 24-25L - given that the Passat is at Rs.30L and assuming the difference in the prices of the new Jetta and Passat to be more or less similar to the difference in the prices of the Laura and Superb with the same engine and kit.
As of now, I am trying to see if the Audi would work out to be marginally more expensive, in which case it might be worth it for the better overall package it offers. The dealer is offering me 4L off the car (with no mention that this offer is only valid if I choose to finance the car), and today I saw an ad in the paper where Audi Finance is offering free maintainance for the first 2 years (1L value), insurance (another 1L), as well as a loan at 3.xx%. In my dream land, this translates to a good deal if they are two separate offers (which I highly doubt in reality as I am positive they would not give an 8L discount on the car). If the economies allow it, it would be an option as I do expect to start working soon, and hopefully earn money, part of which I don't mind contributing to the new car if required, provided I get an upgrade from the car I could use once the fiesta goes (the octy - which I am against because I don't fit in the driver's seat! Why did Skoda get the brainwave idea to reduce the front seat travel!). It makes no sense to spend so much to get a car that would make me feel like driving a slightly better Octy in terms of dynamics, and with a poorer reliability record.
Anyways, I shall be visiting the dealers again today to see how the cars behave once again, and to rule out all possibility of any variance in the manner and roads the cars were tested on. Will also get the financing offers from all the dealers and see how they compare, as all of this makes a decision on the final price.

[shuvc]

All the obvious options have been covered I guess.

But since you considered the Outlander, why not consider other SUVs? True they won't handle like the sedans, but they have their virtues ...

- Fortuner
- Santa Fe (close to 200bhp)
- Grand Vitara !! Relatively cheap, 163bhp, AWD, Auto, Maruti A/S/S, Jap reliability, Poor FE, Poor resale.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by shuvc

All the obvious options have been covered I guess.

But since you considered the Outlander, why not consider other SUVs? True they won't handle like the sedans, but they have their virtues ...

- Fortuner
- Santa Fe (close to 200bhp)
- Grand Vitara !! Relatively cheap, 163bhp, AWD, Auto, Maruti A/S/S, Jap reliability, Poor FE, Poor resale.

Hey shuvc,

The reason I haven't considered other SUVs are because my mother is averse to high SUVs such as the Fortuner where one needs to climb in.
Also, handling was very important to me, as I hate body roll, especially in the back seat (not that I will sit there much, but on the rare occasion I do). I felt a bit queasy in the back seat of a enthusiastic Innova, and don't really want to test it again to see if it has something to do with what I ate, or the height.
The Grand Vitara is out due to the FE, and the CR-V is also for the same reason and the extra high price-tag.

Guys,

Between a 2010 Audi A6 2.7 TDi done 9,000kms for 34L, a new A4 2.0TDi for around the same, and the Passat (undecided trim) what would be best?
The Passat seems to be the weakest proposition here as I can't justify it to my parents, who prefer Audi's interior design and quality. Though they will not use it at all (unless we get the A6), it won't be easy to convince them. Apart from the added power and the subtleness of the Passat, the A4 seems to beat it hands down in every other regard (still to drive the 2.0TDi but heard very good things about it in the reviews, and also some that further increase my doubts).

Thanks!

[rahul_sinha]

By the look of it, I think you are more or less hooked onto Audi. Have you TDed Toyota Camry?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Between a 2010 Audi A6 2.7 TDi done 9,000kms for 34L, a new A4 2.0TDi for around the same, and the Passat (undecided trim) what would be best?!

This is the suggested order from my side:
New A4 2.0 TDI/TFSI > New Passat Highline > 2010 Audi A6.

IMO, the A6 is one of the not-so-good-looking Audi in the market. And you will feel really bad when you start seeing the new generation A6 on the roads. Reason: It is really a handsome piece of work

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by rahul_sinha

By the look of it, I think you are more or less hooked onto Audi. Have you TDed Toyota Camry?

I was when I drove the TFSi. However the 2.0TDi failed to impress me even a little, and also seemed to jump around a lot. After sleeping over it, I realized that the Audi didn't have me smiling as much during the whole drive, as the Passat had within the first few minutes. Even the TFSi variant.
We skipped the Camry/Accord completely as these cars are simply no fun to drive, and the FE would kill me!

Originally Posted by vb-san

This is the suggested order from my side:
New A4 2.0 TDI/TFSI > New Passat Highline > 2010 Audi A6.

IMO, the A6 is one of the not-so-good-looking Audi in the market. And you will feel really bad when you start seeing the new generation A6 on the roads. Reason: It is really a handsome piece of work

I know! The new A6 is a beauty inside out! Can't wait to lay my hands on her.
We skipped the old Audi. Realized that we would have to pay taxes and the like on the car to re-register it, and it simply became too expensive.
So the choices were then narrowed down to the A4 2.0TDi and Passat. The TFSi we skipped as we realized that I am not sure of my daily driving kms, so to be on the safe side we narrowed it down to diesels.
The 2.0TDi for some reason tended to jump around a lot, as well as didn't feel close to as powerful. It might be a better overall car given the better quality interiors, but I started this search with the intent of getting a car I would love to drive, and it simply was no match to the Passat IMO. The Audi was dad's choice, and it would be a car he would like to drive given his demure driving style. He prefers quality and comfort over performance and handling, and I prefer performance and handling over a slightly better engineered car. The Passat was mine. As simple as that.
In the end, we decided to save ourselves the added 4L and spring for the Passat. However as we increased our budget substantially, we shall wait for a few months before driving home in one.

That is if the new Jetta doesn't bowl me over, and if it is launched before we pay the booking amount. I also drove the old Jetta, and boy, it felt exactly like a grown up Fiesta. Zero turbo lag, a responsive engine, better performance, better interiors, affordable, and a very good handler. It is the only car which is going to give tough competition to the Passat when we go to finally pay the booking amount.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

In the end, we decided to save ourselves the added 4L and spring for the Passat. However as we increased our budget substantially, we shall wait for a few months before driving home in one.

That is if the new Jetta doesn't bowl me over, and if it is launched before we pay the booking amount. I also drove the old Jetta, and boy, it felt exactly like a grown up Fiesta. Zero turbo lag, a responsive engine, better performance, better interiors, affordable, and a very good handler. It is the only car which is going to give tough competition to the Passat when we go to finally pay the booking amount.

Well, it’s sibling rivalry then .
If you have liked the current Jetta, its quite possible that you will like the new one as well. According to some of the international reviews, the new car is indeed a step forward from the current Jetta.

Just for reference, here is one review which I came across. The write-up is nothing much, but pictures are drool-worthy. And they have the specs of the 2.0 TDI CR
Volkswagen Jetta 1.2 TSI (M) 2011, Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 TDI (A) 2011 - Review & Road Test - Oneshift.com

Also, in a few months’ time, you may be able to check out the Laura RS as well.

[zulfi hansi]

lambo; I might have missed the bus here and neither do I intend to knock you off your thought process, you cannot go wrong with the cars that you have short listed.

But have you thought of Pete box on the Cruze, will it get the turbo lag rectified? Ask the experts here. Why even compromise with AT. If so, you have winner there, for half the cost. Then you have the options of mods on suspension, body kit, ICE, and still be left with a lot of money. Or what the heck change the turbo if need be. If you are worried about warranty, there are quiet a few 2010 cars in the market place.