The 150+ bhp modded car misery. B16? Mivec? 1 bar G16B? Inputs needed.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 00:05

This might not seem the right place for this thread. Or may seem equally absurd to some. This is not a requirement for a stock car, quite far from one actually. Don't ask me why? I cannot explain it to you. Don't ask me why I am looking at a 150+ bhp car either. I will not be able to explain that either. Don't ask me where I will drive such a powerful car. No, the answer is not "I cannot explain it to you". I have an answer to this question

. "Track" & "Dragstrip". I know I am crazy. But thats not what I want you guys to tell me here. What I really want you guys is to put me out of my misery.

Yes, for the lesser known people I am "planning" on selling my Baleno

. Yes, it comes as a shock to me too. 6 months back I would not have believed I would ever let this thought enter my mind. But, it has. Due to some unavoidable circumstances. Though I am not totally convinced on this yet. And for those who don't know why I am talking such rubbish about JUST A CAR kindly read the following threads on my love (its not just a car for me). (What it takes to own a modded ride ??)

Its not just a car for some (What it takes to own a modded ride ??)

Our first few days together

So, right now I have been given 3 options to choose from. They are all monstrous and one that any power freak would love to own. Atleast I would. I am trying to put in all the pros and cons of each build. I need your inputs to see if I have missed out on anything. So lets begin.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 00:08

Baleno with G16B Turbo Charged : This has always been my dream project. A project I was always looking forward to. A project, from which I pointlessly got deviated for reasons unknown. Right now I have some reliability issues which will get sorted out rather soon. Hopefully. I was running a high compression engine, the effects of which have started to show. Insanely high fuel bills owing to 100+ Oct fuel, additional stress on engine and my stupidity for not having done my homework well. Well lets put all that behind the back now on move on.

What I plan to do is:
1. Get rid of the 76mm pistons on the block. Re-sleeve it back to stock.
2. Or buy a stock block.
3. Go turbo on the engine. Max power upto 14psi. Run 7psi for daily drive and turn up the boost for drags and track days.
4. This would mean I will have to do a lot of research on this topic for the right parts, leaving nothing undone this time. This project will not be done over night, purely because of financial issues. I intend to start the project only by January 2008. So till then it will be running a moderately modded engine until the time I can pick up all the stuff for my Turbo kit.
5. What this would mean is, an expenditure of about 20k to get the car back to reliable for daily drives for the moment. Another 1.5L for sourcing of the kit + 50k for labour and other misc expenditures.

Pros:
1. I don't have to get rid of the car I so dearly love. I can finally finish my dream build. Baleno is a car that handles well.
2. Given that I drive hard, even if anything goes wrong finding parts is never a problem.
3. Plus, all the hard work, time and money I have put in the last 1 year or so wont go for a waste.
4. Plus, thinking of drags I will still be in the Indian category itself. If everything goes fine, I might take part in the Touring Car Championships in the next season as well.
5. I will be saved from the hassles of picking up a second hand car whose history might not be well known.
6. It will be one of the few TCed baleno's in the country and not one of the many OHC's with B16's or Lancers with Mivec's. There are too many of these cropping around the country.

Cons: Would mean a further expenditure of 2L to get the car to my expected levels. Well, I don't know if I am being biased but I can't think of any other cons. Please point out if I have left out something.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 00:08

Old Honda City with B16 : Yes, this might come as a shock to most. A Suzi fan turning to a Honda. Its not true. I love Honda's equally as well. Best solution would be to pick up a old OHC 1.3 and get a B16 engine transplant.

Pros:
1. Instant 160+ bhp stock. Already tried and tested.
2. Plenty of after market performance parts available for those who want to explore further. Nothing to beat a Honda in this regard.
3. One can go turbo too once you get bored. Though this is not something I am really looking forward to considering the physical limitations of the chassis.
4. Ford Rocam is already into a similar build so it will be easier to compare notes and eliminate problems should they arise.
5. Entire project should cost around 5L. I have been offered to check out a couple of 1.3's for 2-2.5L. Engine + installation - 1.75L. Misc - 1L. Total 5-5.5L or there abouts.

Cons:
1. Engine is not a bolt on. Needs one extra bedding.
2. Will the aftermarket mounts be able to take the abuse of taking the car on track and all the g forces it will have to go through? Last thing I need is engine mounts giving way.
3. OHC is not such a great handler. And I love tracks. Is it worth it then?
4. After selling off my Baleno I will still have to put in 1L or more for this project too from my own pocket. Should I rather use that money to buy my Turbo Kit for the Baleno instead?
5. What about the torque? Last thing I need is a car which is pain to drive in the city.
6. Once again the fact that it is an imported engine will not only mean I will go into the foreign open but also if something were to go wrong sourcing parts would be a pain.
7. Besides you never know the history of the engine.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 00:09

Lancer with Mivec : This is something that I must thank none other than Farhan for. I always loved the Lancer for the way it looked. Loved it more for the way it handles. But the only gripe was that it came with a crappy engine. With Farhan showing us the way on how to over come this I was really interested in this build from day 1. But somehow ended up with the Baleno. So, now this got me thinking once again.

Pros:
1. The Mivec engine is a direct bolt on.
2. Sideways has already been there, done that. So he can be my ready reckoner.
3. The handling capabilities of the Lancer is an added advantage on track days.
4. Add to it a nice sweet looking bodykit & rims and it will be a dream car to own.
5. Stock 160+ bhp easily attainable.
6. Entire project will cost just about the same as a OHC with B16 I am quoted.

Cons:
1. Once again the fact that it is an imported engine will not only mean I will go into the foreign open but also if something were to go wrong sourcing parts would be a pain.
2. Besides you never know the history of the engine.
3. Farhan mentioned that it is best to run 97 Oct + Oct boosters. So 100 Oct will be necessary. However this is the most worrying factor for me. Since I love traveling long distances finding good 97 Oct fuel is a major worry. Besides every liter of 97 Oct costs Rs 60. In two years time god knows where it will end up. Adulterated fuel is another worry in not so well known places. This is the only reason that is keeping me away from finalizing on this.

So, I hope you see the dilemma I am in. All 3 builds have their own pros and cons. They are all so lucrative its tough to make a choice. Any pointers I may have left out or any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Right now I am trying to look at this whole issue from a neutral point. Thanking you all well in advance.

JayD · 2nd September 2007, 01:12

Hey! My choice would be he TC'd baleno followed by the mivec. The city project has too many drawbacks which may cause problems on the track. The lancer would be sweet on the tracks, but with it runnin on 100octane... it would be an impractical daily driver.. so i'd say... turbo baleno i the way ahead! and also.. u don't have to worry about the past of any components rite?? jus my 2 cents!!

vishnuvijay · 2nd September 2007, 01:23

I think your turbo baleno project is the best for you. If you did not have a baleno with you, you could have gone with your other options.

Why you should go forward with the baleno project:

1.You already have a baleno.

2.You know your car well and also you have an attachment towards it.

3.The turbo-baleno project is the most cost effective and hassle free.

4.A more confident attempt can be made on this project.

5.Easy to maintain. Easier and less expensive to get parts for the baleno.

Why you should go forward with the B16/Mivec project:

1.You need more power. The stock engines itself can produce 160+ bhp. Adding a turbocharger later increases it further.

2.I feel the honda city or the mitsubishi lancer is better looking than the baleno. But thats my personal opinion.

BUSA · 2nd September 2007, 01:37

Mclaren i would suggest you to go the Mivec way.

The Lancer is the best looker around.

The Chassis is fantastic.

The handling is one of the best of all the cars sold in India this side of 15lacs(RS aside)

The Lancer has unnumerable options. Once you get bored of the 160BHP NA, you can always go for Turbo.

The Baleno will redline at 7000RPM, the Mivec will Redline at 8200RPM(Yes even the OHC with B16A will)

You can go for AWD system(budget permitting)

You can make it look like a EVO.

And the best thing is even with a 1.6 MIVEC engine under the hood, the car will be good enough to drive daily with good seating and good ride which the OHC certainly lacks.

BlackPearl · 2nd September 2007, 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

Hey! My choice would be he TC'd baleno followed by the mivec. The city project has too many drawbacks which may cause problems on the track. The lancer would be sweet on the tracks, but with it runnin on 100octane... it would be an impractical daily driver.. so i'd say... turbo baleno i the way ahead! and also.. u don't have to worry about the past of any components rite?? jus my 2 cents!!

I have also voted for the TCed Baleno for the above mentioned reasons. Morover it can become a Pilot project for other Baleno lovers (including me)

shuvc · 2nd September 2007, 01:55

Reading your posts what struck me was - although you want a 150+bhp car to take to the tracks and drags, you'd still want to achieve it within a 2L budget and with the least amount of possible hassles - during the project and after it.

Go for the Baleno now.

Surely you'll have other projects later on in life. Maybe 3-4 yrs later you could do a Cedia-Mivec

razor4077 · 2nd September 2007, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuvc

Maybe 3-4 yrs later you could do a Cedia-Mivec

Cedia Mivec? Not so sure I'd go for that over a Lancer Mivec. The old Lancer looks better than the "new" Cedia IMHO

And since the internals will be swapped out anyway, doesn't make that much sense using a Cedia shell...

@mcl: My choice would be the Baleno.
I am a Mitsibishi man myself, but the fuel concern is a pretty serious one, especially for a daily driver. And from what Farhan told me, he limits his usage of the Mivec Lancer to a few select ocassions (you'll know this of course!).

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuvc

Reading your posts what struck me was - although you want a 150+bhp car to take to the tracks and drags, you'd still want to achieve it within a 2L budget and with the least amount of possible hassles - during the project and after it.

Shuvc, the baleno already has a lot of work done to it. Check my garage for further updates. I also have some of the forged internals required too (a stronger set of conrods and a shorter forged crank). Or so I am hoping that they can be used when I go turbo too (will have to check with my tuner for specs). So to go turbo upto 14psi now all I would need is a turbo kit consisting of:
1. Turbo.
2. Waste gate.
3. BOV.
4. Intercooler.
5. Plumbing.
6. Turbo manifold.
7. Clutch.
8. Stand alone ECU.

The entire turbo kit I have been quoted 1,20,000 all parts brand new. Might work out to lesser too. Clutch will be 25,000 and ECU another 30,000. The rest will be labour and other miscellaneous charges. Since I already have a done up head, exhaust, intake, performance cam, better valve springs, FPR, suspension. That is how I arrived at the 2L budget. This should be good enough for a 1 bar setup IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busa

The Baleno will redline at 7000RPM

Infact, the Baleno redlines at 6,750 rpm stock. With a standalone and proper setting it up since I already have performance valve springs and a performance cam I guess I can take it upto 8,000 rpm if not to 7,500 atleast. What you need to also consider is the fact that you will still remain with an Indian engine. And compete with maybe only the Vtec's in your class.

Quote:

And the best thing is even with a 1.6 MIVEC engine under the hood, the car will be good enough to drive daily

Not quite actually. I did my research and found this....

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor4077

I am a Mitsibishi man myself, but the fuel concern is a pretty serious one, especially for a daily driver. And from what Farhan told me, he limits his usage of the Mivec Lancer to a few select ocassions

This is the most worrying factor for me. I could infact end up buying another family car for my parents to cut down on the long journeys. But at the end of the day I will still have to travel to places like Coimbatore, Chennai & Bombay atleast. And 97 Oct petrol does not only work out expensive with Oct boosters, I have suffered for a good 4-5 months running 100+ Oct on my baleno and thats not a path I want to be at again. The fact is that you might get highly adulterated 97 Oct fuel too in other places. Besides one cannot travel with 50ltrs of fuel in the boot all the time. This fuel concern is the only factor I have not yet finalized on going for the Mivec.

At the moment, the baleno builds seems to be the best compromise I can make. I will get a fast car, I will still get to keep my car that I love so much, I know turbo cars running on 91 Oct fuel running close to 1 bar without having issues. So that is a solace. When I go out of town I can use some Oct boosters just to stay safe.

What I really want to do with this thread is chalk out a complete plan on how and what to do and stick to it. I have deviated too much between builds forgetting what my end aim had always been. That mistake shall not be repeated this time around. So before I take a call I will have to have everything set and start working towards achieving it.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 03:03

I have also been doing some extensive research on G16B and its turbo applications on some of the famous Suzi forums. And some are of the opinion that a G16B will easily hold upto 12 psi with stock internals (some have been there done that without issues) with a standalone ECU and upgraded to 380cc Subaru Imprezza MY03-04 injectors. If sourcing of forged parts is expensive/unavailable I do not mind making the compromise of sticking to 10psi even on race day to stay on the safer limit. If I can use the current forged aftermarket parts and go higher on the boost, then there will be nothing like it.

manson · 2nd September 2007, 03:34

Lets confuse mclaren further, why not a used RS?

Pros:
factory reliability of 150 bhp
flexbiliy with remaps, power going upto as hih as 300 bhp!
great handler

Cons:
bad FE after remaps
expensive spares
slightly more expensive thn other options

manson.

mclaren1885 · 2nd September 2007, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson

Lets confuse mclaren further, why not a used RS?
Cons:
bad FE after remaps
expensive spares
slightly more expensive thn other options
manson.

There you go. You helped me clear my confusion. Cons outweigh the pros. SO the RS is out

.

chetanhanda · 2nd September 2007, 04:31

interesting stuff now !!!!

hopefully I can contribute my 2 cents ...

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