[headers]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Compared to the Baleno's performance, the Swift-P is no where near.
Be it city traffic where you can just crawl along with the Baleno's awesome torque even in 3rd gear OR in highways where overtaking is not a pain even in 4th / 5th gears. With the Swift, I find the need to keep changing gears in city traffic and on highways, if I am cruising and have to slow down, then gaining back the lost speed requires quite some effort.

Also, the swift's handling is way superior to the baleno's handling IMO especially over 120.

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

The big difference could be in the driving experience, not much in power. The swift feels heavier than the baleno. And of course Baleno has a superior P/W ratio too.

The baleno has a stonking accelaration which the swift does not. But the swift overall is a better refined car, thanks to technology and its advances over the years.

The Baleno was a highly priced car at 7 odd lakhs when it was introduced - the usual MUL trick of milking customers.


Currently Balenos are available at 3 odd lakhs, but not worth the money as one would find spares in the Skoda range and availability in the Fiat range!

[Kaustuv]

Originally Posted by shrivz

If you can manage to find a well kept OHC Vtec under 4L with low mileage on the odo.. nothing like it!

vtec is my first choice too but in my budget of 3.5L, getting a vtec in Bangalore is near impossible. If I can get even a 2003 model vtec for 4L here, I would consider myself extremely lucky.
Some 6 months back my roommate had picked up a 2003 vtec, done 19K for 4.2L and believe me that's rare. Infact the interesting thing is, the very next week he was offerred 4.6L for the same vehicle, that's how hot vtec is in Bangalore

Originally Posted by vaseem

@Kaustuv

Was this a pearl silver Baleno with bridgestone potenza tubeless tyres at Pratham Motors Sarjapur ring road in mint condition ?

Yes that's the one!!. Are you the owner of the vehicle or you know the owner, if you can tell me the price it was sold then I can have an estimate of the margin these guys are keeping.

[vaseem]

@ Kaustuv;

Yes that's the one!!. Are you the owner of the vehicle or you know the owner, if you can tell me the price it was sold then I can have an estimate of the margin these guys are keeping.

Yes I am the previous owner.

The deal that I got from pratham motors - 4.2 lacs + .25 lacs ( exchange bonus ) = 4.45 lacs as I upgraded to SX4. This was in May 08, very strange that they have not sold the car yet.

The prices quoted by different dealerships then ranged from 3.6 lacs to 4.2 lacs and as I was not in a tearing hurry to buy a new car did a bit of shopping for the trade in value and freebiies for the new car. I guess that shows in the final price I got and as luck would have it Maruti increased the exchange bonus from 15k to 25k ( anniversary offer for the SX4)

Vaseem

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by headers

Also, the swift's handling is way superior to the baleno's handling IMO especially over 120.

Handling is something that you have to give the Swift credit for - that is something I love in that car. But Baleno is no bad handler either - it is just that the emphasis is more on the ride than handling and I can live with that because I am not one who throws the car around at curves. Atleast not intentionally. I do 140 on highways on stock tyres and find it good. At 165 (max I ever did), the car is not really safe - maybe wider rubber would help there.

And BTW, as far as reaching that 120 is concerned, there is an ocean's difference between the Baleno and Swift and the latter is just no comparison in that area.

Originally Posted by headers

The baleno has a stonking accelaration which the swift does not. But the swift overall is a better refined car, thanks to technology and its advances over the years..

What technology advancement are you talking about ? Just because Swift is a newer car does not make it advanced ? Yes, in safety features it is surely advanced and much better that many sedans even today that cost close to 9lacs.
But we were talking engine/performance and I do not see what MSIL did to the engine that was in the Esteem for years, other that plonking it into the Swift. A new car does not necessarily mean advanced.

Originally Posted by headers

The Baleno was a highly priced car at 7 odd lakhs when it was introduced - the usual MUL trick of milking customers.

You got the price wrong - it was close to 8lakhs OTR in Chennai when introduced. Wrong pricing decision, I agree, but it neither is MSIL only that does it - remember the barebones Getz-D at 6.3L OTR from Hyundai ? Also, I am sure you cannot keep milking people for ever and if MSIL were doing that with all their cars, they would not be having close to 50% of the market. People here are not dumb to be milked by any manufacturer.

Originally Posted by headers

Currently Balenos are available at 3 odd lakhs, but not worth the money as one would find spares in the Skoda range and availability in the Fiat range!

Serious exaggeration at both ends - some SGPs are definitely expensive, but those are stuff that you would only change in case of serious accidents - routine spares are priced economically. And to compare a Maruti car's spares availability to that of Fiat is blasphemy.

[kpzen]

Sorry Headers!
U are taking this Baleno vs Swift thing too seriously and exaggerating a bit in the process.

Originally Posted by headers

Also, the swift's handling is way superior to the baleno's handling IMO especially over 120.

Comparing it with both cars having stock wheels?? NO CHANCE or may i say the way superior definitely doesn't fit in.

Originally Posted by headers

Currently Balenos are available at 3 odd lakhs, but not worth the money as one would find spares in the Skoda range and availability in the Fiat range!

SGP parts are costly but still not in the range of Skoda and availability can be an issue down south or some other places but still FIAT is in the class of its own...

[iceman91]

Agree with Supremebaleno,
I just got my baleno completely redone. I have replaced Ball Joints, Lower Arm, Suspension, gaskets, CV Boots, etc etc. the list is endless. All this was bought easily off the shelf.

P.S. I only used SGP

[headers]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

But we were talking engine/performance and I do not see what MSIL did to the engine that was in the Esteem for years, other that plonking it into the Swift. A new car does not necessarily mean advanced.

The engine of the Swift is technologically ahead than that in the esteem, though both share the same block! If you want further details, search this forum or I'll get it for you!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

if MSIL were doing that with all their cars, they would not be having close to 50% of the market. People here are not dumb to be milked by any manufacturer.

MSIL have been milking customers and that is a fact! You may disagree but there are some things you cant avoid accepting even if you dont like it.

MUL had close to 70% market share and their share is declining!

MUL were against the TATAs for bringing in the Indica as it would eat into their market share. Those who were following the auto markets then, would agree to this point.

MUL and its stunts with the Peogeot 1.5 Diesel block which was a killer car as along as it was a 309 GLD. The Esteem Di and the Zen Di were products to be proud about!

MUL's anti diesel movement when they realised that Suzuki did not have a suitable diesel for their use in India [pre 97]


MUL priced the 97 carb zen at 3.73 when the competing cars were much less and reduced the price within 2 months after I bought mine BRAND new. You can imagine the frustration when you know your goddamn car has lost resale as the manufacturer has reduced price by a whopping 70K

MUL kinda being a government enterprise, literally forced people in government service to buy only Maruti 800 / Omni instead of the "traditional" Amby. There was some noise about that too.

And finally, the defense forces were kinda "thrusted" the gypsy onto them as they could NOT sell them. Such a shameful exercise of a brilliant vehicle that was just greedy on fuel.

Also, what do you call MULs M1000 [oh the sexy lookin car of the early 90s] they milked the customers with an outdated engine until it REFUSED to sell. No point blaming HM and PAL for selling us outdated cars, we bought them and were used to them.

Only post 97,98,99 did more manufacturers start entering the market and we got some value deals.

This in turn forced MUL to also CHANGE SLOWLY.

Still, habits die hard - Look at a car called zen, as if it had been through a collision in front, back and both sides, call it the "estilo" and try selling it to customers. It definitely looks bad for a Zen family! Shame on MUL for that!

Sorry Estilo owners, didnt mean to offend you guys! This is just my opinion!


Now biju, tell me if I am wrong in my statment about MSIL/MUL..You gave me a chance to pounce on a 2 decade old company that is slowly learning from their mistakes! LOL

Originally Posted by kpzen

Comparing it with both cars having stock wheels?? NO CHANCE or may i say the way superior definitely doesn't fit in.

The swift is ahead of the baleno in the suspension department! Is that OK my friend?

[supremeBaleno]

Hey headers, you have turned what was a Swift-Baleno comparo into a MUL history-over-the-years discussion. We are seriously going OT here and I have no intention of wasting time and effort replying to your lengthy post, point-by-point, only to have the mods snip it all away.

So, if there is another thread suitable for this, we will take it forward there. Or, go ahead and create an "MUL is milking customers thread" and I am game to reply to each point you made.

Originally Posted by headers

The engine of the Swift is technologically ahead than that in the esteem, though both share the same block! If you want further details, search this forum or I'll get it for you!

I do go through most threads related to these 2 cars, since we own them, but do not remember reading about anything technically cutting-edge in the Swift engine that is lacking in the Esteem's same engine. If you had posted that detail instead of all the MUL related stuff, it would have added value to this thread. Anyway, do be kind enough to let us know what is so great about the Swift's 1.3 engine that the Esteem did not have.

[desigNation]

headers-[swift is ahead of baleno in the suspension department????]i always felt the swift had a very hard and uncomfortable ride than a baleno.

[headers]

agreed..but the dynamics change over 120 kmph when you want to do sweeping curves etc

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by headers

agreed..but the dynamics change over 120 kmph when you want to do sweeping curves etc

Wonder where(or what) u are driving these days !! U only seem to be talking of speeds above 120kmph.

[headers]

well, i drive on the GST and GQ 50 to 100 kms out of Chennai everyday, ofcourse to work!

The ability of good handling as well as great accelaration are very important to me

[filcord]

Originally Posted by iceman91

Agree with Supremebaleno,
I just got my baleno completely redone. I have replaced Ball Joints, Lower Arm, Suspension, gaskets, CV Boots, etc etc. the list is endless. All this was bought easily off the shelf.

P.S. I only used SGP

How much did it cost, and what was the odometer reading then?

I agree with the bulk of the views here, driving the Baleno gives uou a different feel, you fell connected to the car, ther responses is exhilirating. I look for reasons to drive mine, just so I can enjoy longer.

As for spares, no issues at all in Goa. I have only done routine maintenance, touch-wood, no accident repairs. Maruti service is excellent, no comparison to Fiat, Ford or Tata, all of which I have experienced earlier.

[me_sid]

Hi guys, I had been driving a 98 Carb esteem till mid May. Then I had to go for a second car, options were many within 3.5 Lacs. I tested countless Ikons , optras,OHC's , but zeroed in on a Baleno LXI 2005 Dec. Immaculate condition 18.5K on the odo. Closed the deal at 2.7 Lacs. I have driven my entirely stock Baleno ( with modded horns Hella Red Grill & Stebel Magnum) regularly on the Highways. Max speed reached 190 kmph, but I was shaky as the stock tyres in my opinion are puny and so are the stock brakes for that kind of speed. But cruising at 120-150 is silk. And trust me lot of people talk about FE as an issue in Baleno. But actualy its not. I dont redline often, so I get around 12 on an average in city w/o AC and on Highways I have got around 16 with 5 heavyweights like me and intermittent AC.
Point I want to make is that Baleno is a seriously good car for performance as well as sedenatary driving

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by headers

Also, the swift's handling is way superior to the baleno's handling IMO especially over 120.

That is because the swift is not quick. When you have no power, it will hardly move and obviously it will handle better than compared to a car that can reach a corner a lot quicker.

The baleno has a stonking accelaration which the swift does not. But the swift overall is a better refined car, thanks to technology and its advances over the years.

Yes Vikram. You are right about the technological advances the swift has made over the years. With each passing year it rattles twice as much . Thats surely an advancement.

And regarding the engine IIRC the block is the same, head is from the Baleno, cam is slightly wilder than the baleno's, ECU is running a conservative map. What is high tech about the engine? Its basically a mix and match of the same old crap MUL has been selling to us since decades.

Currently Balenos are available at 3 odd lakhs, but not worth the money as one would find spares in the Skoda range and availability in the Fiat range!

Did you know that the brake pads for my swift (after all the technological advancement over the years and localization) cost me 2.5k with labour? My SGP brake pads for the baleno with fitting cost me 1k. Guess what? Two times I replaced the brake pads I got the job done in 1hr, unlike the last service when I had to wait for 2 days for those idiots to get a stock of the brake pads for the swift D.

PS: Head gaskets, sensors, lower arms, condensor, radiator, bumpers, bonnet, windshield, steering column ball joints, headlamps all have been changed on my car. I don't remember having to wait for more than a day for any of these parts. Wonder where is it that you are unable to source parts and what sort of parts you can't find.