![]() | #1576 |
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Coimbatore / MENA
Posts: 779
Thanked: 1,238 Times
| ![]() It must be disheartening for you and other learned friends who have already analyzed a move by the Government as a failure with their thorough understanding and experience about an unprecedented action. Sadly, the country is going about its business not paying any heed to you wise folks. Can't decide which is more entertaining, the hoarse cries or the Government's slick moves. Cheers |
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![]() | #1577 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
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Theories are handed out to people who don't understand macro economics and finance. Those who understand, can see the reason plainly enough. Nobody has to explain. Last edited by Samurai : 12th December 2016 at 16:34. | |||
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![]() | #1578 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 695
Thanked: 884 Times
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If a Metro project opens in Chennai / Delhi it gets just a brief mention on tv, but an irrelevant topic such as a murder plot of a media tycoon gets focussed for weeks. Anything positive that is happening around go unnoticed, and those who make it happen and their contribution are taken for granted. The income tax evaders expect the politicians to run a super efficient Government with just the taxes from honest tax payers. If any corruption news (true or not) gets leaked in media, they seem to get more proofs why evading tax is correct. For the 6-lane road example you quoted, I am sure they have this logic - these are toll roads! More examples: Sanitation facilities and Waste Management, Govt run schools, colleges, public libraries, parks, street lights, interior residential streets, state and national highways, many subsidies etc. Apart from this national institutes such as ISRO's research facilities, universities, etc. | |
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![]() | #1579 | |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
![]() For all its purported benefits, the move to demonetise is marked by an inept, unprepared, and confused government and administration. In the meantime a 100cr odd has already been found unaccountably, where the move was said to be a root eliminator. Already? Slick moves. ![]() | |
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![]() | #1580 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Dubai/Thrissur
Posts: 1,177
Thanked: 2,122 Times
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For me, as an aam aadmi, the move looks more like to make a statement. The intention behind the move is good but looks like they underestimated the scale of the task. They should have had contingency plans to alleviate the pain suffered by the poor. I sincerely hope the pain will be worth the effort, for myself and family we are the least affected. In fact, not at all. We currently doing solar installation for 5KW at home and for that we paid via NEFT. For other small cash transactions we have enough change at home. Regarding black money generation by doctors, I can say what most of the people telling here is true. My dad is a doctor and he is not certainly showing 100% true income to the IT. I always tease him by saying it is not correct but his counter argument is, among his colleagues he pays the most, 'holier than thou' attitude. ![]() Will this move by the government prevent future generation of black money, I don't think so, for that we need a change in our attitude. We need more people like you, Samurai, who takes the right steps even if it is the more expensive route. | |
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![]() | #1581 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,046
Thanked: 1,650 Times
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Tax is paid by the end user and its regressive, businesses add taxes to the entire bill of materials, you must have seen a restaurant bill recently? The tax works as an excuse to inflate the bills with no benefit to the customer. Cash has minimal transaction costs and you obviously have no clue about people who earn a lot less than you. Macroeconomics and finance people at a top B school in Bangalore don't think so highly of the current mess , but I guess they don't have your insight into the grand scheme of things. Can you explain how losing a day's earning to visit a bank will benefit a temporary worker at a textile unit who will lose his attendance bonus as a result? | |
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![]() | #1582 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
Now you see that currency crunch is an intentional thing to pressure people to move into cashless transactions, especially for large transactions. The government wants you to get fed up of standing in line and start using card/paytm/UPI etc. So they should not increase supply of currency, it will defeat the purpose of demonetization entirely. Secondly, cashless transactions will bring most people into tax bracket, kicking and screaming. That one is obvious. Government cannot depends on goodwill and ethics of citizens for tax collection. Even people who expect government to provide infrastructure and public services, don't feel guilty evading tax. By cutting off cash supply they are forcing people to go cashless, which will reveal the true income of people, with or without ethics. | |
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![]() | #1583 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pune
Posts: 339
Thanked: 263 Times
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Unless we all pay our taxes honestly, there is little this country can achieve. And for honest tax paying citizens like us (who have tax deducted at source), it seems mighty unfair that many rich people actually get rewarded in life for avoiding taxes. And many of these people actually smirk and laugh at those who pay taxes. They get a sense of superiority that they don't pay taxes. This is plain crazy. On one side we want India to be the best country in the world. We want to display our love for the country by standing up for the national anthem, but when it comes to standing up and being counted as a tax payer, then we want to sit down. Hopefully better sense will prevail in the coming years and more and more people will realise that paying taxes honestly is the best way forward. And going towards a "less cash" economy is a good step forward, though not necessarily the only step forward. | |
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![]() | #1584 | ||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
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Can you explain why he should visit the bank at all? | ||
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![]() | #1585 | |||
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() Join Date: May 2007 Location: bangalore
Posts: 2,082
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I don't want to publish my resume and give myself honesty badges, but everyone pays bribes. I am not talking about bribes paid to carry out illegal stuff but the stuff you pay to get your property/car registered, to get various licences/permits to do business, etc. You may not pay directly, but someone pays on your behalf and sends you a proper bill. Not many realise that an officer gets a particular posting on "pre-payment" of bribe and is given a tenure of say 3 years. He needs to recover what he has paid and also book some profit. In addition, he is given targets to contribute to the minister's kitty. I mean it is so hard-wired and that babu wont spend a CPU cycle of his brain unless he smells money. Superficial actions can hardly rock the boat. Also running a manufacturing type of business is much harder than a software business in terms of touch points with Govt and scope for ambiguity in terms of tax liability. I can only imagine what it takes to be a honest real estate builder or a civil contractor! That's a long rant! Obviously we all have very strong feelings about this issue but unless I see punishment being meted out, I am not going to drink the kool-aid. Quote:
Last edited by Samurai : 12th December 2016 at 18:28. Reason: Avoid politics even if it is meme (meme removed) | |||
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![]() | #1586 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 695
Thanked: 884 Times
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Similarly, those who have been living off the bribes would have already found themselves in jail or found something better to do for their earnings. We should realize that we are at a tipping point in the history where very drastic things can start to unfold for a better tomorrow. Let us focus to pay by cards / online transfer wherever possible. We will know that we can live a comfortable life without having to withdraw a lot of cash. One more point: Everyone can take care of their lives. Rich or poor. So, let us focus on our own lives and see how best we can live with as less cash as possible. If we are really concerned about the poor people's life, we should get down to work and teach some really poor people how to run their daily life without waiting in ATMs. | |
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![]() | #1587 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,057
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There was an argument about doctors and others increasing their fees. As if they were not increasing before. Every year they increase their consultation fees min 20-30%. Atleast the country and exchequer will benefit if the transactions are made white. Every move against the black money will have side effects. Atleast we can see how deep rooted corruption is ingrained in our genes from some posts even in this forum. Some are openly endorsing the black economy and making clear they prefer it that way. Only God can save this country with such distorted line of thinking. Last edited by poloman : 12th December 2016 at 18:51. | |
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![]() | #1588 | |||||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
Many economists are also screaming about short term effects instead of long term effects. For example, there was this article last month by an economist called Arun Kumar who predicts economy slowdown, especially in real estate where huge amount of black money is involved. At first, yes. However, here the effect is not one-sided. Usually, the seller waits for a black moneyed buyer to get a higher price for his property. This is what put the salaried guy in a handicap in comparison to black moneyed guy. However, the demonetization puts everybody on a level playing field. Now the seller is aware that very few buyers have black cash on hand. If he waits for the black moneyed buyer, he will wait forever. So seller will have to drop his price eventually. While some may remain stubborn and not drop the price, most will be forced to do it once they come to their senses. Especially builders will drop price, because of rising inventory. ![]() So lack of cash bills will cause 2 things in this order: 1) Makes most buyers afford less, which makes the demand graph to move left (D1->D2). This causes the quantity move from Q1->QT. This is what Arun Kumar is talking about. The slowdown in short term. 2) Force most sellers to drop price, which makes the supply graph to move right (S1->S2). This causes the quantity move from QT->Q2. This is what he is not mentioning. This is the recovery that pushes the Q back towards Q1. Q2 may not be exactly same Q1, because of irrationality of people. But that is the general effect, the intended effect. Therefore, the net effect is prices fall while the transactions slowly creep closer to original level. Arun Kumar is deliberately overlooking this two way effect because it doesn't fit his narrative. He obviously knows this, but doesn't mention it. Quote:
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![]() | #1589 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
I can't really understand what I said made you infer that I either don't understand statistics or am saying the operation is a failure. There are many cases of the note rackets being busted being reported in the news , that frustrates me. Simple . No offence but let's not go all over the big picture and all that from a simple rant . I didn't realise we are demonitizing rants 😬 Thank you . | |
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![]() | #1590 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 695
Thanked: 884 Times
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If you are stuck with a landlord, who expects plain cash even now, you can educate him on using digital payments if he is not aware of online payments or consider moving out if he is crooked enough to purposefully put you in unnecessary difficult situation. Other option is to give him a with-drawable cheque, which he can handover to the bank and withdraw by himself. While all these, and many are options available to us, reasoning out that, helping someone evade tax is no excuse. Within our influence whatever is possible by us, we should try and help more people to obey tax rules. This will make it easier for Governments to devise schemes. | |
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