[sgiitk]

As most of the moolah being caught is 1st generation, ie from the RBI chest to the bank to X or Y or Z, the serials will give a clue as to which bank they came from. This should give a good clue.

Incidentally, I saw a news item that a 2000 currency note bearing 786 at the last three digits sold for one lac.

I also do not give much credence to WhatsApp or Facebook. Let the evidence emerge. However, they can (and often do) ring the alarm bells.

[binand]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

for the moment it seems to have effectively killed GST from rolling-out next year which may now only happen in 2018.

This is incorrect. The GST constitution amendment bill has been passed by both houses and has received presidential approval. The bill allows only a 1 year transition period, which means that all indirect tax collections based on existing VAT/Sales tax/Service tax regimes will become illegal and unconstitutional in September 2017. The union and state governments have to resolve all their differences and roll out GST by then or taxation will simply stop in India.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by Samurai

On 9th November, I had made a conjecture that new notes could be traced using encryption keys and data analytics.

I am not sure on the encryption key part, but I feel data analytics would be what is getting used extensively. All said and done RBI and the PSU banks would be one of the most "process oriented" organisations in India (perhaps after the Railways). Every thing is documented, and that too at multiple levels. So when RBI issues notes, the series numbers of the notes are all recorded. The RBI knows which series of notes have gone to which bank. The banks have "currency chests" from which this money gets distributed to the bank's branches. Again, there is a record on how much currency (and series) have gone to which branch.

Earlier, these records would be on paper or perhaps even on some computer system. But the volume of data was huge, and making good intelligence out of this was a problem. Perhaps that is where data analytics would be of helpful. Using the data/records available at RBI, banks currency chests, and even all the way to the money paid out list from ATMs most likely a good trail of the money can be made. So if they figure out a bank has "issued" money to an ATM, but the ATMs of the bank have NOT given out any of the currency in that series then it shows some thing has gone wrong.

And all said and done, nothing is better than good old "human intelligence". Put in some money, make people turn informers (or approvers) and get tip-offs. Yesterday there was a bust at a Yeshwanthpur flat at Bangalore city limits. That was based on a tip-off.

And the way things are going. In this entire excercise the real spoil-sports have been bank officials in the higher ranks (RBI, Bank's own currency chest managers etc.). The money which may have got "laundered" using the exchange scheme etc. may be quite a paltry sum.

[pratyush6]

I believe this is going to be the new normal. Cash would be made scarce simply because the costs associated with it. The GOI is pushing all of us towards a minimal cash country and that is the way to go.

I now pay my veggie vendors, office cafeteria and even small grocery shops through e-wallets. Interesting times. Also, I believe, rather than fighting this, we need to embrace it.

I haven't figured out the USSD bit (haven't spent time really), but if it takes off, we have a real game changer on our hands, where people might not even need internet to pay others. This would be good for smaller towns and villages more so, where internet is iffy.

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by binand

This is incorrect. The GST constitution amendment bill has been passed by both houses and has received presidential approval. The bill allows only a 1 year transition period, which means that all indirect tax collections based on existing VAT/Sales tax/Service tax regimes will become illegal and unconstitutional in September 2017. The union and state governments have to resolve all their differences and roll out GST by then or taxation will simply stop in India.

Thanks for this piece of information, I didn't know that. I was also under the impression that GST needed to be rolled out before the start of any financial year. I guess that's why the FM is smug when he says that GST will definitely roll out next year.

Originally Posted by srishiva

Using the serial number of notes (i hope RBI knows which serial numbers were distributed in which city/bank) can also be used.

In at least one case, CBI was able to trace the money trail from SC Jayachandra (the infamous Director of Karnataka State Highways Development Project caught with ₹4.7 crore in ₹2,000 notes) to his relative (who was a middleman) all the way up to K Micheal (Senior Special Assistant at RBI). They were able to pinpoint from the serial numbers that K Micheal had handled those currency notes, so it is fairly certain that RBI is tracking the serial numbers of these notes.

[sgiitk]

@pratyush6; I agree with your sentiment. However, even though I get paid in No.1 only I am in a habit of using cash. I will have to get my wife a debit card from my account (Jt account). She has a credit card on that already. Then she has a problem, how to keep a check on expenditure, so that we do not break our monthly budget. I think we will have to learn.

[lambuhere1]

Source : http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...?homepage=true



Mods: Not sure if it is relevant to the topic

[Samurai]

Here are the 5 ways to pay digitally...

Step-by-step presentation on digital payments.pdf

[rohan_iitr]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Here are the 5 ways to pay digitally...

Attachment 1585500

None of these methods will solve my biggest concerns - how to pay money to :
1. Milk vendor
2. Maid
3. Car wash guy

For the last 2 months, I have been running around trying to arrange notes of 100's only to make payments to these poor people.

I can always use plastic cards or virtual wallets for all my needs.

Rohan

[srishiva]

Unless the govt rationalizes the taxes/govt duties, its not going to solve the problem of black money.

There is way too much money that is being demanded by the govt for everything. In slab based taxes/duties, they should reduce the rates for higher parts of the slabs instead of increasing. Does it make sense ? Why penalize for people creating more and earning more ?

Its debatable whether you should do that same for things like vehicles which cause harm to the environment.

Or go with indirect taxes for everything and make everyone pay. Encouraging cash less economy by squeezing the cash flow is not good.

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

None of these methods will solve my biggest concerns - how to pay money to :
1. Milk vendor
2. Maid
3. Car wash guy

For the last 2 months, I have been running around trying to arrange notes of 100's only to make payments to these poor people.

In my case, I am paying for milk through PayTM because I only buy 3 to 5 half liter sachets of milk at a time based on need.

Since I ended up getting only ₹2,000 notes the last time I went to the bank, I paid my maid with that. She had no problem with it, on the contrary she is the one who I rely on for change. I did think of paying her through NEFT, but I didn't want her to come back to me saying that she needs a day off to stand in line at the bank.

All my other payments are through credit card, PayTM, cheque or NEFT. I went to Manipal Hospital for my cardiologist and ophthalmologist appointments recently, they were not taking any demonetized notes despite it being permitted for hospitals, so I paid by credit card. My dentist prefers NEFT, he also provides PayTM. I also use a consulting dentist through the same clinic for my son's braces, yesterday he told me to pay that dentist through cheque directly as he doesn't want to bear any income tax liability on that amount.

Generally all the vendors I deal with are providing alternative means of payment now, but one has to ask as it is not always apparent.

My son needs cash though to eat at his school cafeteria and return home by auto, that's what I primarily use cash for these days. Until last month, I was not bothered about PayTM, but now I am quite comfortable with it. In fact, I am thinking of giving UPI a shot.

This article from Dhirendra Kumar of Value Research provides quite an interesting take on demonetization -> Wake up and smell the revolution.

The best (or the most lethal, depending on your perspective) thing about demonetisation is that practically all the cash in the country will have to be cycled through a bank account by December 30. With co-operative banks excluded from this activity, by that date, every single one of the 15 odd lakh crore value of large notes will have a trail in what is effectively a single web of interlinked computer systems. This is 'Big Data' with a vengeance and those who understand the implications know that this is the real brahmastra in the war against the black economy. You could be a wise guy who has rented a dormant account from an unscrupulous bank manager (which is certainly happening) but such activities are queryable and detectable in bulk. This tracing is what is starting now and will surely become much intensive in the months to come. It'll be impossible to hide large amounts of cash when it has been through the system so recently.

The second huge impact will be from the forced shift of retail and trade activities to cashless transactions. This shift is a one way street, for the same reason. It leaves a data trail. Talk to any businessman who is being forced to go cashless. He has understood very well that once he has generated a data trail of a certain sales volume from November to January, he will never be able to shift back to cash like the old times.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

None of these methods will solve my biggest concerns - how to pay money to :
1. Milk vendor
2. Maid
3. Car wash guy

This was sent to me by a government department.

From their email:

As you are aware that the Government of India has taken various initiatives for promoting the use of digital payments and moving towards cashless transactions to fight Black Money and Corruption.

We request you to conduct an Awareness Camp on Cashless/Digital Payments for all your employees and supporting staff, in your Organization, regarding cashless transactions.

Please find attached a presentation on Awareness Camp on Cashless/Digital Payments , which can be shared in your Organization.

You can also visit the following websites for further information:

1. www.cashlessindia.gov.in
2. www.csc.gov.in

Please send us the following details on mail:

1. Fill the information of attendees in the attached format
2. Photographs of the programme

We look for your active participation and support for making this event successful.

[rajesh1868]

I understand that these are not universal and may not suit others but this is how I was able to manage the needs

Some 3-4 months before the demonetization move, my milk vendor had voluntarily moved to an app - DailyNinja. This meant goodbye to the coupons that I need to keep as I could specify what to be delivered next day. Payment was online and we needed to mainatin balance. We can also order groceries and other items which he would deliver along with the milk. Has been very useful especially when Im back after being out of town for a few days . Earlier I had to chase him as he would not bother to check if I had coupons (i stay on a dead end). Check their site to see if your area can be covered. They use existing milk vendors for delivery

My maid who used to ask extra cash in between has stopped it completely. She is ready to wait till i get cash for her salary. No cheque or paytm accepted. Fortunately her salary is Rs 2k per month which kind of suits me now. Also she runs a local chit business so she also helps in getting us change for the 2000 notes when needed.

Newspaper. Did not have money when he came to collect last week. He checked with me if not having money means not having notes or an empty bank account. Once he was sure I had money at bank, asked me to install GoodBox app, and sent the bill through it. I did payment immediately. He told I would receive the bill on the app next month and I can continue that mode from now on.

Water tanker - weekly dependence. Has to pay in cash

And my wife needs to take auto daily. I dont think I can manage this other than with notes.

Cooking Gas: Not sure if they will bring a swipe machine.Need to see how I manage this next time. Last time I had payed by cash but while booking there is an automated message that says card machines will be there.

[smnrock]

OT,
I dont understand the logic behind restricting UPI option with in smartphones. Why i can't use net banking and do transaction through UPI? They did the same when IMPS was implemented, later they integrated with net banking.

[ptushar]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

None of these methods will solve my biggest concerns - how to pay money to :
1. Milk vendor
2. Maid
3. Car wash guy

I would sincerely suggest that you pay them through bank transfers. If they don't have bank accounts, then help them open a bank account.

I think we need to do our part to enable this change.

In my case, i have paid Milk vendor through cheque, Maid & car wash guy through bank transfer. Car wash guy has also enabled PayTM on his phone. People want to change, but they need some hand holding. I realised in this process how difficult it is for people to change their mindset. But once they are convinced, they change for good.