Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

[ashokrajagopal]

If we are not done with the "Doctor" who charges "260" now ( from earlier 200) to cover his tax --
Isnt it very obvious that in 1-2 years his business will be busted by IT ?
He dint pay tax till now, starts paying tax from tomorrow, he is meat for IT raids.

So, by that logic, bringing businesses on to systems that can be tracked and trailed also means we can unearth some of their ill gotten wealth from the past too, right ?

[discoverwild]

On Friday night, I visited nearly 30+ ATMs around my area (Trichy Road, Coimbatore) to find only two ATMs (TamilNadu Mercantile Bank with 50 in queue, ICICI with 25 in queue) with cash. 3 ATMs were open to check your balance and the rest were closed.

This was a 4km stretch from one end to the other with a couple of sidestreets added in. I still find long queues in banks all around me.

One village near Attur had around 250-300 people in front of the bank during the first week of this month.

[sachinpk]

I noticed much more people queuing up in the ATM during the last two days. One reason could be the three day bank holiday in many parts of India. Second, I feel low denomination notes have been pumped in. The queues are like 35-40 deep (minimum).

[Samurai]

When people makes excuses for using cash, share these information with them. You don't need smartphone to make USSD payments. It is available in most Indian languages. Even people who only recognise numbers (which is everybody), can learn to use it.

http://www.bgr.in/news/how-to-use-us...u-should-know/

https://www.icicibank.com/Personal-B...sfer-fund.html

Most banks support both the above mechanisms.

[greenhorn]

after the cyclone in chennai, all cashless options seem to be dead. No card machines, no atm's, no internet or power.

At least last year i had a stash of cash which helped me through the flood - all shops accepted cash then

Now none of the shops are accepting card (as the machines are not working) nor the 2K notes.

I hope the infra comes back up soon. Agreed that the cyclone is a natural disaster, but it did not have to be this way.

[navin]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

GST will also make the system more transparent provided it is implemented properly.

At present, the lowest slab of Rs. 2.5 lac is really pathetic.

If Govt. need to improve tax compliance then the tax slabs need to be rationalized. Only then people will spend more and more tax can be collected via GST.

1. GST as currently proposed (in my view) is not going to solve a lot. (without digressing from the current topic you have CGST, SGST and IGST for EACH state and UT so think of the compounding effects of that).

2. The Income Tax Act is a common act for all of India. Only 1% of India is under the tax net (non-agriculture income over 2.5L) and about 0.1% (12 lacs people) have an income over 10L.

3. Actually we the GOI were to implement Tax laws "efficiently" we would not have such limited compliance. The "system" is rotten and it remains to be seen if this demonetization and if any/all subsequent steps helps clean it up.

Personally I feel 30%+ surcharges is a fair rate. Very, very, fair in fact compared to many countries. What most of us would like to see is better accountability and visible use of the taxes we pay.

Originally Posted by ptushar

What the govt is promoting is Aadhaar based payments, UPI, IMPS and Rupay cards. UPI is far far superior to any e-wallets, just that people need to use it once to realize its true potential

Moreover, the govt is also promoting payment bank licenses. So PayTM, Airtel Money etc will soon have payment bank licenses which will allow them to further widen their base and even allow them to pay interest

I tried signing up for UPI and made a mess of it (and I am supposedly 'educated'). Then I called my bank (in this case ICICI) and they sent someone to help me and install their app (Pockets) and we ran into a road block, I did not have a debit card. In short it is not made easy enough for the general public to use (many of you are IT literate and under 30 so please discount us old folk).

I got PayTM. How secure is it? I saw a You Tube Video that showed that if I loan my mobile to someone they can transfer money from my PayTM to theirs. Yikes! Is this true? Should not PayTM have a password or something for each transaction? (Disclaimer: I only use PayTM for Uber and once paid my barber with it).

Originally Posted by Samurai

You don't need smartphone to make USSD payments. It is available in most Indian languages. Even people who only recognise numbers (which is everybody), can learn to use it.
https://www.icicibank.com/Personal-B...sfer-fund.html

Samurai, 2 stupid questions.

Once I do get my debit card and get Pockets working I can in effect transfer money from my ICICI account to any account?

Does the person receiving the money need to be registered to this UPI system?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by navin

I got PayTM. How secure is it? I saw a You Tube Video that showed that if I loan my mobile to someone they can transfer money from my PayTM to theirs. Yikes! Is this true?

It is not different from your wallet. If you loan your wallet to someone, they can take money from it. Now phone is equal to your wallet. The paytm can at least be pattern locked, unlike a wallet.

Originally Posted by navin

Once I do get my debit card and get Pockets working I can in effect transfer money from my ICICI account to any account?

Does the person receiving the money need to be registered to this UPI system?

About 29 banks have UPI implemented, it works between those banks. Your recipient must be registered to use UPI. Doesn't work otherwise.

[ptushar]

Originally Posted by navin

(many of you are IT literate and under 30 so please discount us old folk)

Crossed that milestone long long ago.

Originally Posted by navin

Once I do get my debit card and get Pockets working I can in effect transfer money from my ICICI account to any account?

Does the person receiving the money need to be registered to this UPI system?

The best part about UPI is that you can operate the UPI service on any bank's app to operate any other UPI linked bank account. You don't have to restrict yourself to Pockets. In the coming days, it will become clear as to which app will provide the best and quickest features. It's very early days for UPI, but I'm convinced that there is no parallel in the world today for India's UPI. Here is a well written article that explains things in detail.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/feature...d-know-1452664

[vinit.merchant]

My general assumption was that within a month things would normalize.

Now today, after more than a month, the banks still have a long queue every day, till they run out of cash. This in spite of capping the 24k limit to a meagre 8-10k. So withdrawing from the bank is out of question, unless I take a day off and stand in the queue 2 hours before bank opens up. This is the position of HDFC bank in my area, where I have an account.
Add to this, none of the HDFC banks ATM have opened after the fateful day of November 8. Till date, their shutters are down.

In Pune I only managed to withdraw a 2k note once from a Bank of Baroda ATM, at 11pm, and at that point of time, it had a queue of 25.

Only when I went to Mumbai on last Sunday, I managed to withdraw from an ATM which had a modest queue of 5-6 people. I managed 4k using 2 cards.

Now, I do support the move of demonetization, and I am literate enough to make cashless transactions, but cash is a security you need in your pocket all the time.
To cite an example, while going to Mumbai, on Sunday, the swiping machines at tolls were not working, so instead of putting my hands up, I paid in cash.
Next I wanted to fill in petrol and there too, the swiping machines were not working. What can a person do in such scenarios without cash in pocket? Finally after waiting for 20 min, I filled up for 500, and kept 500 odd as cushion with me.
Thankfully while returning I was able to fill with card.

Now, I have to travel to Goa on the weekend, and the queues at the banks seem to be never ending and with ATM's out of cash, I am in a fix. Though I have 4k in cash in two notes, plus some spare change, I really have no idea if that is going to be enough for my 4 day trip.

So all that I can say is, our country is still quite far from being cashless and that the move to demonetize was good, but at the end, it was again misused by the corrupt and as usual, the non-corrupt have to suffer.

EDIT: Right now the scenario is that it all depends on which party's need it is. I could have very well raised my hands and said "NO CASH" at the toll and they would have let me go for free, BUT, that is not possible when the need is mine, like while filling Petrol or lets say when I have a flat tyre or some other emergency while on road. In these scenarios, I cannot say "NO CASH" and get away with it.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Samurai

It is not different from your wallet. If you loan your wallet to someone, they can take money from it. Now phone is equal to your wallet. The paytm can at least be pattern locked, unlike a wallet.

If I lose my wallet, I will just lose the cash in it. Now, if I lose my phone, my entire bank account is at their disposal (pattern, pin can be obtained by social engineering - say observed when the phone is being unlocked by the user).

Originally Posted by navin

I tried signing up for UPI and made a mess of it (and I am supposedly 'educated'). Then I called my bank (in this case ICICI) and they sent someone to help me and install their app (Pockets) and we ran into a road block, I did not have a debit card. In short it is not made easy enough for the general public to use (many of you are IT literate and under 30 so please discount us old folk).

SBI, SBM have issued me maestro debit cards with long number, without CVV. These cannot be used for UPI. But banks deduct ATM card fees regularly. These are the ground realities of the cashless economy in the country.
I would say Govt should target 5 to 10 years for going majorly cashless, not just 50 days .

There is a reason why people don't keep their money in banks. People's fears & apprehensions must be addressed and banks have to be more welcoming. Otherwise our country is not going cashless. It would be interesting to see the reaction of people after Dec 30, the date promised by our PM for the crisis to end.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

In Pune I only managed to withdraw a 2k note once from a Bank of Baroda ATM, at 11pm, and at that point of time, it had a queue of 25.

I agree. I find situation in Pune to be much worse than say Mumbai. I stay in NIBM road, and have quite a few ATMs around. However, none of them have any cash whatsoever and are always found with the shutters down.

I tried yesterday to withdraw money from ICICI Bank near my office (SUS - Pashan road). However I found out that they took half an hr to serve 5 people and there were minimum 20 people in line. Which means no way I could draw cash without taking a day off.

Mumbai was better where I could once withdraw cash from an ATM is 30 mins (but it was only the 2000 Note which was being dispensed).

With all the talk of going cash less, there are still a lot of issues in that.

For eg. I travel Pune-Mumbai-Pune frequently for work and all along the expressway very few food joints accept card. None infact at the malls where Shivneri halts for break. I still owe my Iron guy, Maid, Newspaper wala and car cleaner money as I dont have cash. Yes these can be considered as minor inconveniences for the larger good. Hope it is all for good in the long term. As someone who has no idea of economics, hope is only I can have at this point.

[sukhoi30]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Mumbai was better where I could once withdraw cash from an ATM is 30 mins (but it was only the 2000 Note which was being dispensed).

What I don't understand is why the new Rs. 500 notes is not being added into the ATMs.
The whole idea is to reduce circulation of larger denomination and introduce more smaller denomination notes. However, we still do not see that happening.
Also, the ATMS need to be calibrated to dispense even smaller notes like Rs. 50, Rs, 20 and Rs. 10. Not sure if that will happen or not.
Before demonetization, almost all ATMs would dispense Rs.500/Rs.1000 notes. It was really difficult to get hold of Rs. 100 notes from ATMs. I hope this tendency will be put to stop as soon as possible.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

What I don't understand is why the new Rs. 500 notes is not being added into the ATMs.

One can only hazard a guess that the currency that should have been going into the ATMs (or the banks) for disbursal is instead going into the lockers/mattresses/hiding places of the people with stack of money through the various channels some members here have been mentioning!
The whole exercise could turn out to be fruitless, unless they demonetize the 2k note again sometime in future (at that time with the only option being depositing in the bank account)

[vishnurp99]

I have been told informally that the PSU personal banks and private sector banks are not filling the ATMS close to their branch. The idea is to get their customers to come to their bank. This is also because immediately after filling up , a large number of migrant labourers come in and get money from ATMS leaving the actual customers high and dry.

I ran out of cash couple of days back. The solution was simple. Go to a fast moving restaurant or store and ask for cash back when you are making a purchase. Most of the fast moving setups have too much lower denomination notes and they seemed happy to dispense it. I also got a new 500 from this place.

[smartcat]

Originally Posted by msdivy

If I lose my wallet, I will just lose the cash in it. Now, if I lose my phone, my entire bank account is at their disposal (pattern, pin can be obtained by social engineering - say observed when the phone is being unlocked by the user).

Not really. If you transfer Rs. 2000 to your e-wallet, only that Rs. 2000 is at risk (assuming the thief has managed to crack the pattern/pin).

He cannot transfer more funds to the e-wallet because he does not have your internet banking (username /password / debit card grid numbers), credit card or debit card details.

Actually, it is riskier to lose your wallet because the thief has your credit card or debit card in his possession.