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Old 23rd May 2018, 14:30   #121
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is my area, although from the product side. So I am qualified to reply to this one.

These telephony applications generate massive amount of data every day. Do you have the skills to squeeze useful information from this massive amount of data? If you learn statistics, all the data you accumulate everyday starts making 10 times more sense, if not more.
Thanks Samurai!! I am not into Statistics or data!! Any other suggestions?
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Old 23rd May 2018, 15:21   #122
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I would say that the above is a little bit of the "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome,
Let's just say the greener grass isn't on the other side, it's on this side in relation to the points mentioned.

Just being in Finance doesn't ensure you will be successful, but you will have a CLEAR advantage over the others IF you know how to leverage that position in a medium to large sized company.

Without getting into specifics, posts on this thread are out of actual experience and not assumptions.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 16:03   #123
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I would say that the above is a little bit of the "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome
As AMG Power noted above, I too was not making assumptions.

As a general thumb rule, any one who is closer to the money transactions, gets more money and gets promoted faster through the ranks. That is because they can quantify their contributions towards the revenue much clearly than other departments.

Sales: If a sales person improves the sales by 2X or 5X times, it has direct impact on the revenues. It is easy to give credit/promotion.

Finance: If the finance person improves the management of working capital, again the results are easy to see. It is easy to give credit/promotion.

Both sales and finance work closely with management, so visibility is also high.

Now consider developers, who are always in the trenches. It is very hard to quantify their contributions in money terms. When company does well, very little credit trickle down to the developers.

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Thanks Samurai!! I am not into Statistics or data!! Any other suggestions?
Unfortunately, analytics is the last unexplored wilderness in the call center industry. The first movers will have huge advantages.

You are probably a supervisor for a team of tech support agents. But you need to recognize what is your domain. Is it the technology you are supporting or the call center operations?
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Old 23rd May 2018, 16:12   #124
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Unfortunately, analytics is the last unexplored wilderness in the call center industry. The first movers will have huge advantages.

You are probably a supervisor for a team of tech support agents. But you need to recognize what is your domain. Is it the technology you are supporting or the call center operations?
Samurai - I am leading the technology behind the call center operations. Basically my team is like tech support or 1st point of contact for any issues with call center - IVR issues, Call routing issues, call recording issues, Banking application issues, etc. We do our basic troubleshooting and pass it on to next level. So basically monitoring and ensuring availability of our applications. I was previously supporting exclusively IVR issues , kind of SME for 2nd level support.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 16:25   #125
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Just being in Finance doesn't ensure you will be successful, but you will have a CLEAR advantage over the others IF you know how to leverage that position in a medium to large sized company.
Maybe I should have worded my post better, what I meant to convey was precisely what you mentioned above - Just being in Finance doesn't ensure you will be successful.

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As AMG Power noted above, I too was not making assumptions.
No offence by "assumption", just wanted to convey that while one point of view says that Finance people are better off, whereas another viewpoint (typically from Finance guys) is that it's a kind of thankless role, in the shadows (apart from maybe the highest level positions) relative to other functions (esp. Sales).

Hence the grass looking green from the other side of the fence.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 16:43   #126
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Basically my team is like tech support or 1st point of contact for any issues with call center - IVR issues, Call routing issues, call recording issues, Banking application issues, etc.
Ok, got it. Basically, technology side of call center operations. But technology keeps changing. Earlier everything was E1, terminating directly into PBX provided media gateways. Now you have SBCs, independent E1/SIP media gateways, pure IP PBXs, cloud PBXes, etc. Many are already switching over to omni-channel UC systems, with call/chat/social-media/email capability, etc. By next year or two, you can expect chat bots, email bots and even voice bots showing up everywhere.

The danger here is that younger engineers can learn the newer technology along with you, and will be cheaper than you.

So you will have to separate your domain knowledge (how call center works) from technology knowledge. The former takes years to learn, the later takes just months. That is your only edge over juniors.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 16:50   #127
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Ok, got it. Basically, technology side of call center operations. But technology keeps changing. Earlier everything was E1, terminating directly into PBX provided media gateways. Now you have SBCs, independent E1/SIP media gateways, pure IP PBXs, cloud PBXes, etc. Many are already switching over to omni-channel UC systems, with call/chat/social-media/email capability, etc. By next year or two, you can expect chat bots, email bots and even voice bots showing up everywhere.

The danger here is that younger engineers can learn the newer technology along with you, and will be cheaper than you.

So you will have to separate your domain knowledge (how call center works) from technology knowledge. The former takes years to learn, the later takes just months. That is your only edge over juniors.
True!I agree with your comments. This is where experience comes to play. Being a lead and experienced in this same field for more than 8 years has given me an advantage. By just looking at a simple email or alert in my monitoring tool, I can tell whether it will impact businesses or not. When I was young, I was arrogant and thought "experienced folks and myself doing same job, why do they earn more over me?" However now I realize the value of experience and have mended my ways. Domain experience is pretty good for me , will fortify it. Will PM you later for more details or feedback. Thanks a lot Samurai!
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Old 23rd May 2018, 22:11   #128
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Another part of my job is left wide open.
That part of my job is now advertised at 3-4 grade levels below mine
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Old 23rd May 2018, 22:30   #129
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That part of my job is now advertised at 3-4 grade levels below mine
That's become endemic these days.

Backfill a role a few (sometimes several) grades below the outgoing headcount, with a resource who has all the right 'credentials' on paper, but will have a mild stroke the first chance there's a customer escalation or a scenario whose answer can't be found in the SOP manual, kicking off a hunt for an 'experienced' resource everyone wants assigned to their case ASAP, but none exist because everybody got replaced with 'cost-effective' resources.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 22:57   #130
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The need to constantly evolve is higher than ever before. I dont think this is a 40s problem - its a skilling/reskilling issue and applicable to most IT folks.
If one can evolve, age is just a number!
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Old 23rd May 2018, 23:32   #131
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No matter how much one reskills you will find much more young and already skilled resources at a much lower cost than a 40 Yr old person who is likely to be quite high up in the salary bracket. IMHO reskilling is good but won't guarantee that your job remains secure. With all the experience and knowledge it would be better to safeguard ones future by starting something on your own and growing that.
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Old 24th May 2018, 09:46   #132
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With all the experience and knowledge it would be better to safeguard ones future by starting something on your own and growing that.
True, true, nothing like having a killer idea for a product and service and being able to execute it well. But that's the issue, not all of us can do that. For me, personally, 'becoming an entrepreneur' is as unrealistic as 'quitting and becoming a farmer'. I have absolutely no business sense and even if I were to start something, chances are I'd be bankrupt in a few months!

I have close buddies who have started up in the tech space and who manage divisions in large corporations. The hassles of doing business in India apply to IT as well. Registrations, chasing payments, making bribes, hiring, compliance, bureaucracy. It's really not simple and you need to be a certain type of person (and need a fair bit of luck and lots and lots of hard work) to startup successfully.

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Old 24th May 2018, 13:16   #133
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Like the article says, I am a corporate lawyer and find that more years provide me with greater credence and value in the professional arena.
Arindam-da, not to scare the heeby-jeebies, but wait till AI gets to the legal profession. If you can find material do read up on what happens to the livelihoods of experienced legal professionals in a post AI world. Apparently the only legal jobs that will be secure are 'brief preparers'.

I know nothing about the legal profession. I am a senior-ish chap on the wrong side of 45 in an engineering company who has seen the havoc of lay-offs and survives hand-to-mouth in the same company with a slight pay cut and an Excel sheet that updates me how many months I can survive on my savings and my wife's school teacher pay.

Until 5 years ago I used to scoff at my wife's work and tell her to quit. 'We pay that much in fuel, electric and phone bills!' I used to scoff. These days I beg her, don't stop working. At least your salary will pay for the fuel, electric and phone bills!

Things are bad across sectors and the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be the headlight of a locomotive coming to hit us. I am normally a very positive chap but on this matter, I am a realist.

I sent the link of the article to the 25 chaps in my team. . . a team that until 3 years ago comprised 60. I and my Deputy are the only gray beards left . .

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Farming has always been an attractive proposition. After all you get to see something growing tangibly; quite unlike IT.
You do know that after factoring in the risks, the returns on farming are lower than putting the money in a savings account, don't you? The thousands of farmers are not actually committing suicide because their Bentleys got repossessed!

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th May 2018 at 13:33. Reason: Back to back posts, please use Multi Quote [Quote+] instead. Thanks.
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Old 24th May 2018, 14:02   #134
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You do know that after factoring in the risks, the returns on farming are lower than putting the money in a savings account, don't you? The thousands of farmers are not actually committing suicide because their Bentleys got repossessed!
I understand sir. My comment was about the satisfaction of seeing some tangible results unlike in IT (not weighed in terms of money). I empathise with those suffering in the farming sector. At the same time, if I enter into something I will do it only if I have initial investment and some knowledge about the topic. If I keep worrying about returns all the time, I would not even get out of my bed.

Although, in my opinion farming can also return more money considering the sector (horticulture/ animal husbandry/ etc) and keeping pace with changing market demands.
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Old 24th May 2018, 16:44   #135
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This is good, this is the only way there will be change. All these fat cat IT boys running around buying real estate - accumulating loans and EMI's like there's no tomorrow...
I understand your frustration, because of IT sector Bangalore became ridiculously expensive without adding much value to it's development for a better life, in fact it deteriorated several times in last 20 years. More number of cars, malls, explosion of population, the lop siding of real estate market, no decent earner can afford to buy a house in Bangalore anymore, and this is not even like Bombay, we have abundant land around. This ain't development. The quality of life in Bangalore right now is pathetic. So any Non IT person has only had hardships because of the IT sector.

Nonetheless the cost of living will not come down very soon even if the IT sectors' earnings go down. The damage is permanent.

Like you said those in the IT sector who had taken the future for granted will be on our side of the wall now, feeling the heat of non-productively escalated cost of living.

I have come across a sizable number of IT professionals who have transitioned into farming and other non IT fields, and they are actually happy. But then only the intelligent and brave do that. That should happen on a larger scale, lesser population will only make Bangalore better.
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