[ckranjan]

Whats wrong with Trump?

Ya Whats wrong with the Chinese regime.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/211248...h-organization

Ignorance is a choice.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don’t know what’s wrong with this guy Donald Trump, he says the Chinese didn’t contain the virus early. In retrospect we can say anything, but in the initial stages of any epidemic it’s difficult to predict whether we are dealing with a epidemic. Trump wanted China to inform in November!

Key dates:
28 Nov - First reported case
16 Dec - Approx time 1st cluster of cases
31 Dec - Taiwan CDC notified Human-Human transmission. China started articles against Taiwan and WHO ignored Taiwan's notification.
02 Jan - PLA units in Wuhan Lockdown. 8 docs punished for rumor-mongering & broadcast on TV
13 Jan - Thailand reports a case. Possibly the first case outside China
20 Jan - Xi's statement to Chinese public

https://www.thedailystar.net/coronav...y-days-1893046

To top all this China was unhappy when India stopped all flights to/from China. The article below states China was unhappy about India suspending e-visa services to Chinese. GlobalTimes is like a mouthpiece for the Communist Party of China.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1179335.shtml

When the earliest cases of the virus were reported in November, they only tried to hush up the information.

The Chinese doctor who warned about this virus post a huge rise in number of cases was silenced. We will never really know if he was killed or he died contracting the virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/w...ronavirus.html

They knew in Jan mid when most districts were under lockdown that this is an epidemic and people have flown to all parts of the world from China from November to Mid January but they never let news come out nor let people know this was a pandemic.

This was intentional and the blame lies solely with China and CCP.

[samdarshi.pali]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don’t know what’s wrong with this guy Donald Trump, he says the Chinese didn’t contain the virus early. In retrospect we can say anything, but in the initial stages of any epidemic it’s difficult to predict whether we are dealing with a epidemic. Trump wanted China to inform in November!

Don't know about Donald Trump but China if fully responsible for Covid-19 pandemic.

If you wish to know how China is responsible then please read past 20-30 years of epidemic history (SARS, Ebola, Zika). Each incident was reported timely by the concerned country. In the case of Covid-19 China purposely hides information, misguide WHO and other countries.

China is fully responsible for the present state of the pandemic.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by whencut86

Key dates:

The November case is found out retrospectively, we doctors do that kind of detective analysis. That doesn’t mean t was intentionally ignored. What happened in China would amount to bureaucratic delays. If it was in any place it would be taken as a Flu like illness. If it had happened in India first, the results wouldn’t have been different, to be honest it would have been worse. You can read about Acute Encephalitis Syndrome and its effects in Uttarpradesh.

Now lets agree China made a mistake, who prevented Trump from taking effective measures as their first case was diagnosed on January 20? You just have to listen how changed his versions daily. He miscalculated the disease, if not for Dr Antony Fauci who is a renowned and fearless doctor, the results would have been worse.

[ckranjan]

How can anyone compare China with India?

China = Super Power

India = Poor Country

Indian health system is very poor and so how can it be compared to the Chinese system. Thus how can anybody compare the response of a crippled system with that of a Advanced system.

Its like comparing the immune system of a 50 year old diabetic to a healthy 20 year old.

But yeah lets copy the Chinese playbook. China=India or China=/India as per need.

[splitsecond]

Only time Trump was right is when he banned Chinese entry to usa in jan itself but suprisingle WHO criticized this move.

WHO in jan 14 said there is no evidence of human to human transmission.

[ckranjan]

This news story is in Hindi but can anyone dig out more details about it.

https://www.livehindustan.com/bihar/...n-3151452.html


And to top it what is this?

https://www.jagran.com/jharkhand/ran...-20190741.html

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

BBC is most biased media ever on any Indian issues. Take all reports of BBC with pinch of salt. Instead, BBC should focus on their parent country as 1000s of people dying everyday there. They should come out with the shortcoming of that English government. Which they will never do.

India is managing COVID-19 crisis quite well despite being second most populous country. Growth rate of pandemic is still is quite slow because of various steps taken.

My humble suggestion, do not watch any foreign media reports. It is very easy to make any absurd report with the help of camera and microphone these days as everyone is expert on everything.

Trust your governments bulletin from state and center and do your bit of staying home.

Your post is incredibly biased ! We need foreign media to keep us informed of what is happening in the rest of the world. We may need it, too, dare I say it, to inform us of some things here that our own media might not want to cover.

Disclosure, of course: I'm British. but... About the BBC's coverage of India. What I hate is the condescending stuff, funny-people-with-elephant-gods stuff, that has no place in any of the world's media today. I'm glad to say that it has got less on the BBC during past decade. It has not disappeared altogether, though. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Having said that, I relegated the BBC to second place in my British/World news reading some time ago, and promoted The Guardian to that position. Groans from the right wing, of course, but it is an independent newspaper, and it certainly is not the propaganda tool of one owner/party.

I can still find cases in any western media that I see where the story is contextually, if not factually, just wrong. An on-topic example would be the British tourist in a kerala hospital a few weeks back. Allow for that.

Cultural differences are inevitably going to result in wrong interpretations. Add to this that all media, of all nationalities, are going to have a point of view that amounts to more or less of a bias.

And, if you think that the British media is not focusing on the situation it's own country, and not pointing fingers at the leadership and administrative failures, then you have not read any of it, so you are probably not informed on its coverage of any nation. Or you have only seen the media that is in the pocket of the governing party and its supporters. And I admit that there is plenty of that.

Originally Posted by sunilch

Oh my dear BBC. Always focused on defaming or finding what is wrong with India

It was from the BBC that I learned about the Indian company developing a corvid-19 test, and completing her work hours before checking in to hospital to give birth.

BBC needs to focus on UK for now for sure. BJ is another DT and there are reports of unaccounted deaths due to Covid-19 in elder care homes across the UK. They say at-least 10-15% of deaths are underreported in UK from these shelter homes for the elderly. How about a documentary on that?

The British government is doing its best to get rid of the BBC, or, at least, its independence. That should tell you something.

Join me reading The Guardian. I can assure you that they are covering the care-homes stories, as well as the deficiencies in the statistics.

Whilst this post is largely offtopic, its message is this: read everything as much as one can take in and has time for, in English or any other language. Adjust for perceived bias as necessary --- but we do need the information that is out there. Even if we sometimes don't like what it says.

Of course, I still start each day with The Hindu and The New Indian Express. Just as foreign news is going to be just a page or two to them, so Indian news is going to get tiny coverage in a newspaper abroad.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by vibbs

We saw in the pdf shared by Slick yesterday of the official report from government of Maharashtra (page 14) that 65% of the cases are asymptomatic! (I hope I read the report correctly)

BMC has decided to change its testing protocol for Covid-19. Now, asymptomatic contacts of patients will no longer be tested!

https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/...w/75150586.cms

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don’t know what’s wrong with this guy Donald Trump, he says the Chinese didn’t contain the virus early.

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Now lets agree China made a mistake, who prevented Trump from taking effective measures as their first case was diagnosed on January 20? You just have to listen how changed his versions daily. He miscalculated the disease, if not for Dr Antony Fauci who is a renowned and fearless doctor, the results would have been worse.

Trump’s economic adviser, Peter Navarro, on Jan 29th 2020, had shared a memo with National Security Council and that memo was circulated among many federal agencies. It said in the worst-case "more than a half-million Americans could die" due to the pandemic based on what was seen in China.

A second memo that Mr. Navarro wrote, dated Feb. 23, warned of an “increasing probability of a full-blown COVID-19 pandemic that could infect as many as 100 million Americans, with a loss of life of as many as 1.2 million souls.”, again in the worst case, if no cautionary measure are undertaken.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/u...ronavirus.html

Trump's business & administration style has been verbally assaulting his opponents or firing his staff who do not agree with him. He started his attack on the coronavirus epidemic, first with his verbal assault on democrats, then China and now on WHO. But his techniques don't work against the virus

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

Thanks to Raghav for sending this information. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!
Source

This is a needless worry. The virus survives at best a few hours to a few days depending on the surface. In our hot weather this would be much shorter than even these timeframes. The transit time from China is several weeks. So there is no need for such worry.

Originally Posted by whencut86

Key dates:

Nobody had any knowledge of this when the first case was reported. It would obviously take time to realise it is not the regular flu and then to try and investigate it. After the lockdown in Wuhan on Jan the 2nd followed by a lockdown of all of Hubei province a couple of days later, how was it a secret to the world? The whole world knew at the latest by Jan 5th. Whether they punished their doctors is immaterial. Any intelligent person would have realised it was a serious epidemic if China had to lockdown a whole city and then quickly followed it by locking down the whole province. This was unprecedented and obviously indicated a grave problem. Coming to your point regarding people flying from China to all over the world, that is hardly a secret. Every country knows how many Chinese visitors are entering and many countries put restrictions on visitors from China when they deemed fit. You can hardly expect China to ask other countries to ban their citizens from visiting. This anti China bias and conspiracy theories are uncalled for. China is also a victim here.

[Dhiwakar92]

In India, we need to focus on the need to keep our surroundings clean. COVID-19 itself couldn't have been prevented by good hygiene, yes, I agree, had that been the case, the disease would've affected almost exclusively all 3rd world countries, including unfortunately, India.

I believe that being clean has several other benefits and can help in avoiding a lot of other such diseases which have been mostly eradicated in the rest of the world. This isn't my takeaway or lesson from this nightmare that I'm living through since I NEVER litter but yes, the hordes of poor in this country,they need to be educated about why being unclean is a bad thing and it ultimately affects them more than anybody else.

My key takeaway from this nightmare is that I need to stock up groceries at home, keep a lot more at home than I need. I usually have about 2-3 days worth of food in the pantry but after realizing that during a crisis, I might not have access to my favorite food items, well, I'm going to go ahead and keep a health 3 months supply of everything. I just hope I don't end up finishing it all in one go.

[Prafful_Rathod]

At this moment most of us would be thinking how this pandemic will end?

The Vaccine is clearly 12 to 18 months away, till such time all the countries would have to probably balance between restrictions and opening up of lockdown and take a stock periodically and in pockets where cases increase. Clearly once we free up the movement across the country the virus is again likely to spread so we should keep testing. We are hoping that once recovered from this virus the population will get herd immunity. So there are lots of Scenarios and we have to work around. This is a long journey and nobody knows how much will it cost to humanity.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Any intelligent person would have realised it was a serious epidemic if China had to lockdown a whole city and then quickly followed it by locking down the whole province.

The current WHO guidelines on social distancing, lockdown, treatment comes from China's experience in handling the epidemic in late January & February.

Originally Posted by splitsecond

WHO in jan 14 said there is no evidence of human to human transmission.

That's is true. The lockdown in China started from Jan 23rd onwards when it went out of hand. Before that, they were trying to manage the epidemic.

This is India & China timeline on Covid-19:

Dec 31: China alerts WHO on unusual pneumonia seen & spreading in Wuhan

Jan 1: Wuhan seafood market shut
Jan 7: Novel virus named 2019-nCoV (later renamed as COVID-19)
Jan 11: 1st death in China
Jan 13: 1st case reported outside of China, in Thailand (had visited Wuhan)
Jan 17: 2nd death in China
Jan 20: 3rd death in China & over 200 infected, some outside Wuhan. 1st case in Korea.
Jan 21: India starts screening of passengers from China
Jan 23: Wuhan under quarantine. Train, flights to Wuhan suspended. All public places shutdown in other cities.
Jan 24: WHO says "no evidence" at the moment of a deadly new virus in China spreading between humans outside of China
24th to 30th: Cases reported in India, Philippines, Russia, Spain, Sweden, France, UK, Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Singapore, US, UAE, Vietnam.
Jan 30: WHO declares the coronavirus a global public health emergency, after 170 deaths & 8000 cases in China. 1st case in India.

Feb 2: 1st death outside China, in the Philippines (Wuhan connection)
Feb 4: Kerala declares coronavirus as a state calamity after 3rd case
Feb 7: Li Wenliang, a doctor who was among the first to sound the alarm over the coronavirus in China, dies
Feb 13: 1st death in Japan.
Feb 14: 1st case in Africa, in Egypt & 1st death in Europe, in France
Feb 15: India has extended screening to arrivals from Thailand, Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Japan, and South Korea
Feb 16: 1st death in Taiwan
Feb 19: 2 deaths in Iran
Feb 20: 1st death in Korea
Feb 21: 1st case in Israel (via cruise ship), 1st death in Italy
Feb 22: 2nd death in Italy, around 50 infected in North Italy
Feb 23: 3rd death in Italy, and with the outbreak, shutdown starts. Till this date, in a months time China has 2000+ deaths & 75,000 cases.

Mar 2: New cases reporting starts in India
Mar 3: India stops new visas
Mar 11: WHO declares on the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic
Mar 12: 1st death in India. India Govt starts planning on awareness & quarantine facilities
Mar 13: 2nd death in India. All visas suspended. All returning from COVID-affected countries were asked to be quarantined for 14 days.
Mar 16: All institutions, shopping malls, theatres, gyms shut down in India.
Mar 17: 3rd death in India
Mar 22: Janata curfew. All International flights stopped.
Mar 25: Lockdown starts. All domestic transportation stopped.

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...061554884.html

[Chetan_Rao]

Contrast the assumption lots of people (globally) are making that China had it all figured out on Day 1 and intentionally hid that info, against how everyone else is struggling to figure this out even after knowing about it for months points in one direction, and that's dependent on how many of us are willing to believe the as yet unsubstantiated 'bio weapon' conspiracy theory.

Every other scenario, points to a situation where China saw something originate, didn't have an established baseline to reference, tried to mitigate it but also tried to manage the PR fallout, no different to how anyone else has managed it since. Before someone picks that bone, previous pathogen-based pandemics are not directly relevant until bench-marking is done. Not even all coronaviruses behave similarly, and that's just one family of pathogens.

So it all boils down to whether one is a conspiracy theorist or not. I'm not, but I'll change my mind if evidence turns up.