[efgritesh]

The question that keeps coming to my mind is, if it would have been different without vaccine, masks, lockdowns.
Considering the number of lifes lost, I dont think any of the above made any significant difference.
I know for sure that masks and lockdowns were pretty ineffective, as they cant be humanly followed to the extent they need to be followed for being effective.

unfortunately, that cant be said about the vaccines and have to be supported by scientific evidences. We can only hope that the govt have done enough to understand what worked and what didnt, so that we are prepared for future.

[PreludeSH]

Kevin Peitersen is asking people and particularly Australia to apologize to Djokovic !

I hope this doesn't start casting doubts about vaccines in general. Also, there needs to be more study to see if RNA/DNA synthesized vaccines have any issues compared to using inactivated virus.

[Fuldagap]

No sooner had the acceptance in the UK court case been announced than AstraZeneca withdrew the vaccine globally due to low demand.

What ia the common man supposed to make of this? Is this damage control in the downward spiralling case for AZ or is it really a business based decision? One would never know it seems.

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by SuperGirl_Dad

Pardon me for asking, what data are you looking? [/url].

I was just asking for the "thousands of" peer reviewed research articles that you were refering to in your previous post.

Originally Posted by aravindhunt

Also it is already proven that most of the 'established' (not covid) vaccines have side effects.

Side effects are a different issue. My point is that there is no evidence that the AZ Covid vaccine works.

[am1m]

Good discussions and good questions to ask about how effective the vaccine was, how was that determined.

For those interested to know more:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...-effectiveness
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...-vaccines-work


(PS: If this data was fudged, paid for by BigPharma/China/The Illuminati, I have no idea, please ask in the appropriate alternative theory forums! )

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

I was just asking for the "thousands of" peer reviewed research articles that you were refering to in your previous post.

Side effects are a different issue. My point is that there is no evidence that the AZ Covid vaccine works.

Here is the link to the US National Library of Medicine: National Centre for Biotechnology Information. It alone has 130,222 research papers. And that is just one source. Link

I don't know how the mind works but there is ample evidence on how vaccines work and how covid-19 vaccines helped prevent deaths, infections, etc. If still not satisfied, talk to any reputed doctor, virologist or epidemiologist,

Originally Posted by am1m

...
For those interested to know more:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...-effectiveness
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...-vaccines-work

There is soooo much data covid-19 vaccines and their efficacy and how they prevented catastrophe that only a dedicated obliviousness can present such dissonance from facts.

[androdev]

If the world of science is all kosher, how come we don't know about the origin and nature of the corona virus?

Taking medicine is based on risk-benefit analysis. No intelligent person expects a medicine to be a perfect cure without risks. Nobody is also denying that medicines produced with so much R&D and clinical trails spend offer some level of cure.

Had this vaccine been optional, nobody would have cared but it was surreptitiously forced on the entire country. Individuals have different risk-benefit thresholds when it comes to taking medicines, opting for surgeries, etc. Those who feel the risks of taking a freshly minted, poorly tested vaccine are far greater than dying of Covid have every right to feel upset. This is not to say these people are against vaccines and science.

Those who vouch for medicines tend to bully others as anti-science. We have started from fighting medieval superstitions with science and reached a level to confuse scientific dogma with truth.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by androdev

If the world of science is all kosher, how come we don't know about the origin and nature of the corona virus?

I'm not sure if the 2 are connected. I could be wrong, but I don't think we've identified the origin of polio either? It's a virus-caused disease that has been around since ancient times. And the vaccine has also been known to have rare adverse reactions. But I don't think anyone from as recently as my grandpa's generation will have any doubt that the global vaccination effort was what spared people from our generations the suffering they went through.

Which is not to say we blindly accept any vaccine that is forced on us. Especially in this day and age, when so much information is available. It is our right to ask and check. We just need to be mindful about the sources we trust.

Originally Posted by androdev

Had this vaccine been optional, nobody would have cared but it was surreptitiously forced on the entire country.

I'm asking this again, because my memory of what transpired in the initial days of vaccine availability seems very different.

I only remember people jumping to get vaccinated. Shortages because everyone wanted to get vaccinated, even before any vaccination certificate mandates were in place.

I agree after that, it started becoming mandatory to have a vaccination record to do a lot of things including travel. But I really don't know anyone who was forced into getting vaccinated. In fact, I know a few people who never took the vaccine. They just waited it out to travel, till the mandatory vaccine certificate things just fizzled out. Which also happened quite quickly.

I could be wrong of course, and perhaps several people were forced. Would like to hear those examples. Again, all I remember being forced was the lockdowns- both at a national level (those at least I can understand to some extent), and the several other idiotic restrictions that any tin-pot authority figure, especially those on RWAs, forced on people with no scientific basis at all.

Originally Posted by androdev

Those who vouch for medicines tend to bully others as anti-science. We have started from fighting medieval superstitions with science and reached a level to confuse scientific dogma with truth.

Agreed. This is as bad as the opposite. "Science" itself should never become a dogma, that is as bad as superstition and religion, where people are just forced to 'believe'. Instead it should always be evidence and data-based.

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

I was just asking for the "thousands of" peer reviewed research articles that you were refering to in your previous post.


Side effects are a different issue. My point is that there is no evidence that the AZ Covid vaccine works.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Here is the link to the US National Library of Medicine: National Centre for Biotechnology Information. It alone has 130,222 research papers. And that is just one source. Link

"My point is that there is no evidence that the AZ Covid vaccine works." - You keep parroting this, will be very interested to know what is the basis for this?

Important point to note: most generic names given to vaccines and medicines may not be followed during reports and journal articles.

For Eg: The most commonly used drug "Paracetamol" chemical name is N-(4-hydroxyphenyl)ethanamide. Have you even considered looking at composition and chemical names of some of the popular Covid vaccines?

[ToThePoint]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

One very sane advice we often find being offered on the forum is to read the user manual.

In the impugned case, had the users been privy to the contents of the information sheet found inside the package of the vaccine vials, they could have made an informed choice. However, since none of us bought the vaccines independently/separately and since each vial was used for multiple persons, one practically didn't/couldn't.

This is what SII has to say:

Attachment 2603946

Attachment 2603945

Source: Hindustan Times

Fact is we will never know the truth as we have not seen the vials like u mentioned. More so when the vaccine is withdrawn. In such cases anybody can come out and make statements.

Unless someone has a vial!!!

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by androdev

Had this vaccine been optional, nobody would have cared but it was surreptitiously forced on the entire country. Individuals have different risk-benefit thresholds when it comes to taking medicines, opting for surgeries, etc. Those who feel the risks of taking a freshly minted, poorly tested vaccine are far greater than dying of Covid have every right to feel upset. This is not to say these people are against vaccines and science.

Dear Androdev,

The vaccine was forced on the people as the idea was to achieve herd immunity which in turn would achieve 2 things:

1. Prevent harm to the most vulnerable groups (people contraindicated to take the vaccine such as immunocompromised, older age groups, children etc.).

2. Improve the prognosis of those likely to be infected.

This decision was taken globally by numerous bodies (governmental and scientific).

A crisis of a scale such as COVID will naturally result in a lot of trial and errors by all parties concerned (vaccine manufacturers, governments, scientists). As they say... hindsight is 20/20.

I will refrain from commenting from the other aspects of your post since it would go into a different tangent altogether.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

My point is that there is no evidence that the AZ Covid vaccine works.

Originally Posted by androdev

Those who feel the risks of taking a freshly minted, poorly tested vaccine are far greater than dying of Covid have every right to feel upset. This is not to say these people are against vaccines and science.

This is the link to study on efficacy of Astra Zeneca Vaccine. It has been published in The New England Journal of Medicine and has been cited by 589 other studies as of making this post. Took me 5 mins on google search. How come everybody says the vaccines were poorly tested .

On what scientific basis is this argument made and keeps repeating - is there any

Selection bias?
Error in methodology adopted?
statistical errors?
calculation errors?
Any other errors in the scientific work?

Willing to learn more from esteemed members.

PS: neither involved in any vaccine development nor have even remotely worked field of biology

[DigitalOne]

For the nth time in this thread, this rare side-effect was known, documented, and published multiple times and was known to medical professionals and health administrators including WHO.

Below is the Ministry of Health, GOI advisory dated 17-May-2021 documenting this risk. If you recall, in May 2021, very few had taken their first dose.

Bleeding and clotting cases following COVID vaccination in India are minuscule and in line with the expected number of diagnoses of these conditions in the country, a report submitted by the National AEFI (Adverse Event Following Immunization) Committee to the Ministry of Health & Family Welfare said.

Alerts have been raised in some countries on post-vaccination “embolic and thrombotic events” on 11 March 2021 particularly with AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine [Covishield in India]. A decision was taken to conduct an urgent in-depth analysis of the adverse events (AE) in India in the light of the global concerns.

The AEFI Committee has completed an in-depth case review of 498 serious and severe events, of which 26 cases have been reported to be potential thromboembolic (formation of a clot in a blood vessel that might also break loose and carried by the blood stream to plug another vessel) events – following the administration of Covishield vaccine – with a reporting rate of 0.61 cases/ million doses.

AEFI data in India showed that there is a very miniscule but definitive risk of thromboembolic events. The reporting rate of these events in India is around 0.61/million doses, which is much lower than the 4 cases/million reported by UK’s regulator Medical and Health Regulatory Authority (MHRA). Germany has reported 10 events per million doses.

Below is from SII's, Covishield FAQ.



Other links all are from Apr-May 2021: Link, Link, Link.

Here is the statement from WHO, which was monitoring all the vaccine development and adverse events (if any). This is dated 19-Mar-2021.

The GACVS COVID-19 subcommittee met virtually on 16 and 19 March 2021 to review available information and data on thromboembolic events (blood clots) and thrombocytopenia (low platelets) after vaccination with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.

The available data do not suggest any overall increase in clotting conditions such as deep venous thrombosis or pulmonary embolism following administration of COVID-19 vaccines. Reported rates of thromboembolic events after COVID-19 vaccines are in line with the expected number of diagnoses of these conditions. Both conditions occur naturally and are not uncommon. They also occur as a result of COVID-19. The observed rates have been fewer than expected for such events.

While very rare and unique thromboembolic events in combination with thrombocytopenia, such as cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), have also been reported following vaccination with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in Europe, it is not certain that they have been caused by vaccination. The European Medicines Agency’s Pharmacovigilance and Risk Assessment Committee has reviewed 18 cases of CVST out of a total of more than 20 million vaccinations with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in Europe. A causal relationship between these rare events has not been established at this time (1).

Some people may probably trust the Canadian government more . So here is the Canada Government health advisory. This is dated 14-Apr-2021.

Health Canada is updating Canadians and healthcare professionals about its ongoing safety review of very rare events of blood clots associated with low levels of blood platelets following immunization with the AstraZeneca and COVISHIELD COVID-19 vaccines.

After a thorough, independent assessment of the currently available scientific data, Health Canada has concluded that these very rare events may be linked to use of the vaccine. This is in line with the findings of other regulators. As a result, the Department has updated warnings in the product information to inform Canadians of the possible side effects and to provide information about the signs and symptoms and when to seek prompt medical attention following vaccination.

Based on the review of available data from Europe and from the United Kingdom and AstraZeneca, no specific risk factors have been identified. Therefore, Health Canada is not restricting the use of the vaccine in any specific populations at this time.

Health Canada’s position that the safety of the AstraZeneca vaccine meets its strict safety standards remains valid, and the Department is adjusting the product's labelling to reflect the available scientific evidence.

Health Canada reassures Canadians that the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine continues to be safe and effective at protecting them against COVID-19 and encourages people to get immunized with any of the COVID-19 vaccines that are authorized in Canada.

Based on the assesement that the risk was miniscule compared to the potential benefit of the vaccines, governments world over and WHO took a decision to change the product labelling including this miniscule risk but go ahead with rapid vaccination. A right decision in my opinion.

All allegations and insinuations that unsafe vaccines were forced on us is WHO/AstraZeneca/SII/GOI is uninformed and is simply untrue.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

For the nth time in this thread, this rare side-effect was known, documented, and published multiple times and was known to medical professionals and health administrators including WHO.

The UK court case is about people dying in dozens due to AstraZeneca.
You should have a read on that. Government or any other literature was deviod of the lethal 'side effects' of astrazeneca brand.

Many died after taking astrazeneca brand vaccine. There is no data on it. Comfortably so.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by androdev

If the world of science is all kosher, how come we don't know about the origin and nature of the corona virus?

By this logic, the fact that we do not know the origin of the virus renders "the world" of science "non-kosher." This is getting into thinking that might be called "fractal wrongness." Do we doubt the whole of science?

Well ok... yes, actually we do. At least, scientists do. That is why they don't hang up the white coats and go home.

And, of course there is more to discovering the origins of covid than just science. Have you forgotten... China?

Had this vaccine been optional

It was entirely optional. Yes, ok, there were various restrictions put on the unvaccinated, but nobody was forced to have it.

There are many inoculations that, in various parts of the world, are so much a routine part of childhood, that we were barely aware of them. But even they are not forced on us.

The effect of a strong backlash against measles can be seen in the gains made by the disease. And I hope that Dr Andrew Wakefield rots in a horrible hell.

Originally Posted by am1n

polio ... ... ... I don't think anyone from as recently as my grandpa's generation will have any doubt that the global vaccination effort was what spared people from our generations the suffering they went through.

Hello Grandson

Yes, I am just old enough to remember one death at school, and the general fear that the disease inspired. That was in UK. India must have followed somewhat later, as I know one person, much younger than me, with completely crippled legs here. (His whole body was affected, and he endured much pain to become a successful mridangist.)