[dragonfire]

There is no evidence that the vaccine worked. Neither by preventing the disease, nor by reducing deaths. By the time the vaccines were administered the worst of Covid was over.

Delta had had it's reign and Omicron had taken over, and it is known that Omicron is much less virulant than the previous variant. It is the mutations that saved the mankind, not the vaccines.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

There is no evidence that the vaccine worked...

Why do you say that?

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

There is no evidence that the vaccine worked. Neither by preventing the disease, nor by reducing deaths. By the time the vaccines were administered the worst of Covid was over.

I'm just quoting you, but this is for all vaccine doubters. There a famous proverb in Tamil language "If the cat closes its eyes, it thinks the world had gone completely dark". Just because the nuances in vaccine development is not fully understood by many, doesn't mean it was just cooked up. Theres scientific knowledge that goes behind developing these vaccines and there are many clinical trials that are validated and reviewed by eminent scientists.

There are many scientific articles outlining the development, efficacy and trials behind the vaccines. One is free to kindly go through them and understand, before forming biased opinions.

Some examples of research articles:

link 1

Link 2

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

There is no evidence that the vaccine worked. Neither by preventing the disease, nor by reducing deaths. By the time the vaccines were administered the worst of Covid was over.

Delta had had it's reign and Omicron had taken over, and it is known that Omicron is much less virulant than the previous variant. It is the mutations that saved the mankind, not the vaccines.

True. By the end of Delta variant (~July 2021), IIRC studies were showing 70-80% seroprevalence, i.e., most of the population had contracted the coronavirus, doesn't matter whether you showed symptoms or not. And then Omicron spread very fast with mild symptoms, immunising the rest of the population.

Those who write "I never contracted Covid", should actually write "I never contracted symptomatic Covid". Only if you were living in a cave completely isolated, would you have avoided Covid.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by SuperGirl_Dad

There are many scientific articles outlining the development, efficacy and trials behind the vaccines. One is free to kindly go through them and understand, before forming biased opinions.

Some examples of research articles:

link 1

I just went thorugh this link and it made me raise my eyebrows, may be I'm wrong, but all these name point towards one ethinicity, I will take anything from them with a pinch of salt.

The top 100 most cited articles on COVID-19 vaccine: a bibliometric analysis
Weigang Wang, Hu Wang, Tian Yao, Yandi Li, Linzhu Yi, Ying Gao, Jia Lian, Yongliang Feng and Suping Wang

Further when I read this article, it raised some more questions rather than answering my doubts.

However, there were some limitations in our study.

First, only two articles published in 2022 were included in the present study. Some high-quality articles published in 2022 may not be included in our study due to short publication time frame and fewer citations, which may result in bias.

Second, the WOSCC database was not fully inclusive of all literature. Hence, it might not provide truly representative citation counts.

Third, the number of citations might not be fully representative of article quality. Low citation number may not mean low research value, and high citation number does not necessarily indicate important guidance to this field.

Fourth, the statistical methods used by CiteSpace software may have some biases, which was an inherent weakness of software.

Finally, a small number of non-English articles were not included in this study due to our inclusion criteria, leading to bias in literature selection.

Despite these limitations, our study offers fresh insights into the present state and development direction for further study of COVID-19 vaccine.

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

I just went thorugh this link and it made me raise my eyebrows, may be I'm wrong, but all these name point towards one ethinicity, I will take anything from them with a pinch of salt.



Further when I read this article, it raised some more questions rather than answering my doubts.

Judging a book by its cover eh . How about you kindly go through article (its a review article) along with the references that have been provided therein, rather than skimming the author list and forming an opinion. India is a democratic country and you are more than welcome to form an opinion, but is it questioning collective scientific knowledge and methodology - you can be your own judge. Peace.

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Why do you say that?

The vaccine was rushed without any controlled studies to prove it's efficacy. Almost everybody (vaccinated or unvaccinated) has contracted Covid. And there is still no evidence to support the claim that vaccinated people had mild illnesses. Corelation does not mean causation. Mild illnesses during post vaccine era could be attributed to Omicron prevelance.

Originally Posted by SuperGirl_Dad

I'm just quoting you, but this is for all vaccine doubters.

I am not a "vaccine doubter". Not all viral illnesses have effective vaccines. Sadly that seems to be the case with Covid too. We should acceot that and move on now that the worst is behind us.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

The vaccine was rushed without any controlled studies to prove it's efficacy. Almost everybody (vaccinated or unvaccinated) has contracted Covid. And there is still no evidence to support the claim that vaccinated people had mild illnesses. Corelation does not mean causation. Mild illnesses during post vaccine era could be attributed to Omicron prevelance...

I'm no expert but I'd still trust:
- millions of scientists, scholars, virologists, etc. who published thousands of peer reviewed research papers,
- several multinationals who invested billions and
- thousands of health officials who were able to convince heads of states across the world for these vaccines.

Compared to Googlers, the above are much more credible.

Unless you have evidence contradicting these; because otherwise it sounds awfully like the moon landing hoax. The scientific community, nation states, scholars on one side and internet searchers on the other.

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

I'm no expert but I'd still trust:
- millions of scientists, scholars, virologists, etc. who published thousands of peer reviewed research papers,
- several multinationals who invested billions and
- thousands of health officials who were able to convince heads of states across the world for these vaccines.

Compared to Googlers, the above are much more credible.

Unless you have evidence contradicting these; because otherwise it sounds awfully like the moon landing hoax. The scientific community, nation states, scholars on one side and internet searchers on the other.

These arguments were valid when they untroduced the vaccine. We were asked to trust and we did. Three years later, they still don't have the data, and still we are asked to keep trusting. Science needs evidence unlike religion.

And are there really thousands of peer reviewed research papers on the Covid vaccines? Do you really believe so?

[volkman10]

AstraZeneca says it will withdraw COVID-19 vaccine globally as demand dips.


Link:

[haisaikat]

Can we really be absolute judgemental here? While it's true there are side effects of every medicine out there, considering the urgency faced by human race, this vaccine has potentially saved lives too. Vaccines gave us the confidence to get back to normalcy, something that Delta had shattered. It's easy to say now, but back then thoughts were different.

Astrazeneca to withdraw it's vaccine

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Three years later, they still don't have the data, and still we are asked to keep trusting. Science needs evidence unlike religion.

And are there really thousands of peer reviewed research papers on the Covid vaccines? Do you really believe so?

Pardon me for asking, what data are you looking? These are data that are available in peer reviewed respected journals. One is free to go through them and form informed opinions. Science works on testing a hypothesis - leading to discovery and incremental knowledge so, as time evolves, a large number of research findings that were initially observed, also go through secondary checks and if needed the research findings are "Retracted".

Just see the number of papers retracted in simple google search.

Remember the Hydroxychloroquine magic cure for Covid, even made headlines with then president Trump? The main research article from The Lancet has been retracted.

Just to give you an idea on the amount of research that go through, the retracted article on Hydroxychloroquine has been cited by 1804 other articles as of May 08, 2024.

[aravindhunt]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

These arguments were valid when they untroduced the vaccine. We were asked to trust and we did. Three years later, they still don't have the data, and still we are asked to keep trusting. Science needs evidence unlike religion.

Originally Posted by dragonfire

There is no evidence that the vaccine worked. Neither by preventing the disease, nor by reducing deaths. By the time the vaccines were administered the worst of Covid was over.

Delta had had it's reign and Omicron had taken over, and it is known that Omicron is much less virulant than the previous variant. It is the mutations that saved the mankind, not the vaccines.

Just imagine telling the people, at the time of covid peak, that you have all got immunisation, because you were infected and there is no vaccine coming. Just because you have quoted trust, I'm bringing in the concept of trust here.

Also it is already proven that most of the 'established' (not covid) vaccines have side effects. Its a matter of judgement, whether the positives (preventing wide spread, death) outweigh the negatives (side effects)

[dailydriver]

One very sane advice we often find being offered on the forum is to read the user manual.

In the impugned case, had the users been privy to the contents of the information sheet found inside the package of the vaccine vials, they could have made an informed choice. However, since none of us bought the vaccines independently/separately and since each vial was used for multiple persons, one practically didn't/couldn't.

This is what SII has to say:





Source: Hindustan Times

[kozhissery]

Saw in todays paper that the Covishield has been withdrawn.

Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca has announced the global withdrawal of its Covid-19 vaccine, Vaxzevria, citing a surplus of newer vaccine options as the primary reason.

Ref:

• https://www.indiatoday.in/science/st...575-2024-05-08
• https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/astr...report-5613955