[kurmist]

This is my personal opinion (and I admit freely, that I am no army officer). I feel that the inherent strength of any professional army comes from its NCOs (the sergeants etc) who are in it for the long term. These are guys who have come up through the ranks and have some level of experience and expertise. My questions:

1) How will this impact the morale of the rest of the force when an NCO knows that his team will change every 4 years?

2) WIll we have this backbone of experienced NCOs etc in the future?

2) Is 4 years enough of time for the bulk of our armed forces to develop and be ready for contingencies?

3) Is this just a scheme to address the issue of increasing unemployment in rural / urban youth?

4) As others have mentioned, what happens if, in the event of conflict, someone is injured, incapacitated or killed (god forbid). How do we take care of them and their families?

Once again, admittedly, I have almost no knowledge of our armed forces apart from the regular stuff. However, I have the deepest admiration and respect for the gallant men and women who serve our country selflessly. I hope that these schemes do not impact the morale and well-being of our armed forces.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Additionally what happens when the contract-soldier is killed or injured in this period. Will the govt support him for entire life?
What if the injury leads to life-long disability or medical condition?
Are we (the taxpaying Indian civilian public) going to use and throw these "dispensable assets"?

Originally Posted by srini1785

What compensation does the army provide?. If there are none then this is direct human rights abuse and would, no doubt, be challenged in courts.

Originally Posted by condor

Such comments indicate that army does not have insurance / compensation coverage for affected personnel. Cant be further from truth.

Now, that translates to ~1Cr (44+48 lakhs) translates to ~20x of the salary an agniveer earns. Which in my view is a good coverage.
The same however cannot be said about the disability compensation.

It is also not clear what happens if one gets a lifelong medical complication, without being classified as a disability. Looks like the are on their own?

Attaching the brochure from the indian army portal
AGNIPATH_BROCHURE.PDF

[Malyaj]

The prevailing wisdom in military think tanks is that the future is moving towards technology driven warfare and absolute numbers or combat readiness of individual soldiers is not a determinant of success. Russia's inability to steamroll Ukraine in the face of West supplied advanced hardware may also be serving as a case study.

Another point that may have played in the minds of the decision makers is that a full scale incursion on either the western or northern front is unlikely now, given that all sides have capable deterrence. The money might be better spent on fencing, UAVs, surveillance systems etc, to prevent or at least localise a conflict.

[fawad0222]

Well, well, Its the world wide phenomenon of governments/politicians, who when face financial challenges, train their attention to curtailing employment, pensions. Easy way out, perhaps.
I would never agree to any such schemes, unless there is sincerity and rationality in making such decisions. Any government where all the elected representatives, draw multiple pensions( some states have announced to stop it- a small step in the right direction), eligible for a life long pension, even if the government lasted for a day, not even counting the innumerable direct and indirect benefits they are eligible for, sincerity in its fiscal plans is doubtful.

Coming to the rationality of such decisions. what home work has been done, apart from calculating the potential savings, to be had by implementing such schemes. Has any gone over the total budget outlay for the year and check how it can be improved or on the other hand, has there been any research on the possibility of improving the income of the nation, by harnessing its varied potentials.

If we delve into the specifics of this particular scheme, as the OP and others have pointed out, what would be armed forces be doing when by 2030, there wont be any NCOs left or how the post services re employment could be addressed or how the disability concerns are going to be met.

Those who give example of US, Israel and other developed countries, tend to forget that such countries have excellent unemployment support system and still, veterans have it hard over there too.

[Piyush_DT]

We all know that we need to modernize our armed forces and it's long time due. How would you get the extra money as the existing money is not obviously enough? We have all types of subsidies and freebies and what not to take care of. Government did try to Make in India but then they would have realised that money saved is not enough. We need to do something significant and need to be out of the box and that too immediately. We can't just relay on man power and old technologies. You need to compete with the world with the policy of non-alignment.

Also, saying that youth would be inclined to do anti-national activities. Indians don't do that else we would have seen this on the ground with or without training. Our upbringing is very good and we don't do that.

Government has provided clarification on preferences for job for these youths. You can't have same system and don't change. I think it's too early to say it won't work. You have armed forces to monitor and suggest the changes accordingly.

[ABHI_1512]

We have seen some radical thinking decisions in the recent years, be it the education policies or the health policies or the economic policies and now the bug has entered the defence sector as well. One funny and common thing among all the decisions made till date, the noted economists were never the part of economic policies, the noted educationists were never the part of education policies, the public health experts were never the part of the Covid policies and now the defence and military experts were not the part of the latest scheme since all these experts were kept out of the policy making process and the results are for all to see.

All these talk of making the Army lean and cutting back on expenses because of rising pension bill and all, some even have mentioned the freebies and subsidies, have to start with a scheme of providing employment to children just out of school for four years with no pension ? Why can’t the onus of savings comes from the esteemed members of houses who enjoy unlimited subsidies at the cost of the tax payers ? No body asks those questions, I often wonder why ?

This recruitment policy is fraught with repercussions and they will come back to bite. I have often seen a common scene during my road trips across the states. Young boys training and running during the early morning hours on the state and national highways. Most of them had only one aim- join the forces. Most of them came from the villages and small towns surrounding the highways and most of them had only one aim- to join the forces and secure their future. Till date, an army recruitment camp sees maximum footfall and people who have seen the rush will know what I am talking about. Being a soldier is tough and takes a lot, ask anyone who has done NDA or a CDS. So according to the present scheme, by the time a soldier will be prepared, it will be time to leave already, all within a period of four years !!

It is in this backdrop that I shudder to think of the boys who would be trained in arms and after four years, will be left to fend for themselves. The Ministry can come up with more schemes but at the end of the day, most will probably end up with private security agencies or even worse, a part of some private militia may be. Of course, a section will still be absorbed further but with a mechanical system in place, favouritism can’t be ruled out.

Already, many defence experts have raised their concern. But as is the norm for the last few years, this shall be stonewalled too. On another note, people recruited under the scheme would be potentially looking for a second career after the mandatory four year period, quite possibly making them risk averse during the serving period. There are many grey areas and it would have been better that this scheme been tested as a pilot first before making it full fledged.

Originally Posted by Piyush_DT

How would you get the extra money as the existing money is not obviously enough? We have all types of subsidies and freebies and what not to take care of.

Also, saying that youth would be inclined to do anti-national activities. Indians don't do that else we would have seen this on the ground with or without training. Our upbringing is very good and we don't do that.

Stopping pension of soldiers and saving money to modernise the same army, do you think the soldiers would be ready to give their best in such a scenario ?

Also, your highlighted statement above has put me in a quandary. If our upbringing is that good, why do we see criminals roaming around and why do we see female infanticide and why do we see caste based oppression and why do we see so much violence against women in our country ?? I wonder if I stay in the same country as you are !!

[mygodbole]

Agnipath is NOT a replacement for regular recruitment in the near future, though if this initiative succeeds, regular recruitment norms might go a few notches higher. Regular recruitment will continue, at least in the foreseeable future.

Basic training is usually followed up by skill-based, aptitude-based training, at least in the Army. There is a saying you can find almost every skill among the recruits. So someone who can 'read' river currents or learns how to drive a 3-tonne truck or bandage wounds or climb a vertical cliff or 'read' a track in the desert/jungle/mountain, is likely to be made proficient in that specific skill. Every unit has designated individuals for cooking, laundry, vehicle and weapons maintenance and they are taught to be proficient in that specific skill. This is in addition to their training in general drills, unit discipline and efficiency in making war. This discipline and training will polish individual skills, making them first-choice in the the post-Agnipath civilian work-space. Ex-servicemen all over the country are gainfully employed post-retirement and can guide these Agniveers in civilian life.

NCOs and JCOs are not going anywhere any time soon. As an officer once said: "We come out of the academy with these officer's epaulets, but learn everything about efficiently running a unit from these ranks." And the repartee comes from an NCO: "We take care of the officers so they can take care of the unit." Future NCOs and JCOs can/may come from early Agniveers who may be part of the 25% volunteers that are retained at the end of their 4-year stint.

46,000 Agniveers are NOT going into one unit of one regiment. They will be scattered all over the place. Their educational background and physical fitness will decide where they are posted initially. And once the machine takes over, either you come out an Agniveer or you fail to justify your initial choice of signing up. This is, after all, a volunteer defence force.

[Shreyans_Jain]

In wake of massive protests all over north India, the government has raised the age limit from 21 to 23 for the recruitment cycle of 2022.

Originally Posted by mygodbole

Agnipath is NOT a replacement for regular recruitment in the near future, though if this initiative succeeds, regular recruitment norms might go a few notches higher. Regular recruitment will continue, at least in the foreseeable future.

Agnipath is going to be the only non officer recruitment that will be held from now on for mass entry into the armed forces. That is the whole point.

[Amrik Singh]

Any Agniveer will just be counting his days and planning to his life after that. His loyalty and dedication to service will be just like what we saw with Afghan Army. Desert at the first crisis. It takes years of hard training to create a Soldier.
Brainchild of Politicians who draw hefty Pensions with perks with just a small stint in Parliament or Legislative assembly and trying to save on Pension of Servicemen.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Piyush_DT

Also, saying that youth would be inclined to do anti-national activities. Indians don't do that else we would have seen this on the ground with or without training. Our upbringing is very good and we don't do that.

So there’s no anti-national activities in India because the upbringing is good?

I didn’t know that. Sounds like utopia to me.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Stopping pension of soldiers and saving money to modernise the same army, do you think the soldiers would be ready to give their best in such a scenario ?

What service the Politicians do that they are entitled for Pension ? A soldier has lived under cover of enemy fire and hostile conditions, served for over 20 years to earn his pension.
Surprisingly, the MLA's get pension for every tenure. The income tax on this is again paid by the government. Leave aside other perks and benefits that come with it. Security cover, free Electricity, Water etc. A MLA was made CM despite not in majority. Worked for two days as CM working to get majority. Had to resign. Just two days of work - nothing National, but entitled to Ex-CM benefits.
Why not stop Pension for these politicians? Punjab government is the first to stop multiple pensions to ex MLA's. It had withdrawn security cover to VIP's too, but had to reverse because of one fatal incidence.

[Piyush_DT]

Originally Posted by kiku007

So there’s no anti-national activities in India because the upbringing is good?

I didn’t know that. Sounds like utopia to me.

We have and every society will have but not to that extend what is being painted. But to say that youths coming out of the scheme will be involved in anti-national activities is what I think won't happen because of our upbringing.

[am1m]

Don't know enough about the functioning of an army to comment on the overall scheme, but the point that this sort of short service scheme will lead to a 'militarized unemployed' problem is I think far-fetched.

I was on a trek in the Himalayas a few years ago and one of the participants was an Israeli who like most of their younger population had completed his stint with their armed forces. As a part of his training, he had even learned how to fire a shoulder-mounted missile! Their society has had this sort of scheme for a couple of generations. What he did say was that a lot of the people he knew didn't end up using the lump sum amount they received at the end of the service for education, or to start a business, or put a deposit on a house as the government intended, but planned to travel and blow off some steam (hence the number of younger Israeli tourists you see all over SE Asia). Some of them do end up getting in to trouble, and because of their military training they do end up escalating situations. But that's mostly small issues that the local cops can handle, a far cry from a 'militarized society'. And a lot of them do use the money as intended to get a start in life.

We've been hearing about a modern, smaller army for a long time, have we reached a point in the modern theater of war where having the xth largest standing army in the world is really not an advantage in war? (Would be glad to hear from more informed members/members with military experience.)

If that is the case, this scheme does make sense. After all, the best part of the batch will be drafted back for the full service duration. And for the others, they will still have an advantage over the general population when it comes to jobs because of their short service experience.

Second question I had was does this indicate that the financial situation of the country is in bad shape? Normally any government would not risk tampering with the defence forces, seeing how crucial they are and how any change in that area will always evoke emotional responses that they can't afford to ignore.

[PreludeSH]

Read that they had consultation with experts in defense for 2 years before coming up with this scheme. We are becoming very doubting and easily irritable for everything. Only the rantings of people against is getting amplified and indulgence in violence acts as approval to what they think
Very sorry state of affairs. We do have a lot of shortcoming but why do we see getting employed in defense as fundamental right and will destroy public property to ascertain it !

[bht]

Originally Posted by am1m

Don't know enough about the functioning of an army to comment on the overall scheme, but the point that this sort of short service scheme will lead to a 'militarized unemployed' problem is I think far-fetched.

I agree, on the hindsight no one seems to think of the discipline that comes with military's training.