[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Read that they had consultation with experts in defense for 2 years before coming up with this scheme.

Army sources have reported that those who opposed have been shown the way out.
Also, sorry to say, the Top Defence Officers have become "Yes Sir!" to seek diplomatic assignments post retirement. Any reason the Ministers are given a ride on the latest Fighters inducted in the Air Force and to hear them comment positively on the Aircraft?
Blindfold them and give a ride in Toyota, BMW and Mercedes and let us see if they can tell one from other. It is not their domain.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Army sources have reported that those who opposed have been shown the way out.
Also, sorry to say, the Top Defence Officers have become "Yes Sir!" to seek diplomatic assignments post retirement. Any reason the Ministers are given a ride on the latest Fighters inducted in the Air Force and to hear them comment positively on the Aircraft?
Blindfold them and give a ride in Toyota, BMW and Mercedes and let us see if they can tell one from other. It is not their domain.

I saw former army chief General Malik talk on TV and he was supportive. I can understand the plight when they come out after 4 years. Its the same for other people looking for jobs too. These people will be better equipped than general populace. Its going with the times.
Again these are all my personal opinion and as far as my expertise can go

[humyum]

I will put my life on line for 4 years with no clear career path ahead because government wants to save money and my career is not their problem?

Suddenly, today they changed the age from 21 to 23, this shows how not thought through this is like everything the government does.

I am surprised there are not more protests in every state.

If you want to save money, stop building vista's, bullet trains, thousands of crores on election campaigns and roaming around like ibn-batuta.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by humyum

Suddenly, today they changed the age from 21 to 23, this shows how not thought through this is like everything the government does.

Age 21 - 23 is the optimum age to pursue Bachelors and Masters degree.
When the aim shifts for providing more of Religious institutions rather than Educational, it seems right for these guys to earn money and have no education to use the money for future growth.
We have already seen uneducated youth land into money by selling their agricultural lands to developers in Noida and Gurugram. They had no skills and have blown away the money.
In the stint of Agniveers, would the emphasis be on their Soldier life skill or Civilian life skill ? In 4 years, they may be torn between the two and mature in neither.

[MCR]

Originally Posted by humyum

I will put my life on line for 4 years with no clear career path ahead because government wants to save money and my career is not their problem?

1. Good to know that you went to Degree College with job in hand.

2. Age changed so that more coverage can be given considering the pandemic season of last two years.

3. I support this form of recruitment and the reasons are : https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/s...57850498228225

I am surprised how every reform is gas lighted in our great democracy.

[headbanger]

For folks supporting the scheme, take a step back and understand the reason why this scheme has been brought forward.

If the answer is money, you know all other benefits to support this scheme are hollow intangibles. Not everything can be viewed thru prism of money only. It's just one of the factors.

While traveling, I routinely see young enthusiastic chaps running for tens of kilometer on shoulder of highways in interior hinterland of Haryana. These guys prepare themselves to the hilt from yesteryears for that one shot at the selection. And if they are angry today, I can feel their hurt. It's like someone changed the subject and questions during exam.

If armed forces need less human footprint, surely there are better ways to achieve that rather than the proposed scheme.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by MCR

3. I support this form of recruitment and the reasons are : https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/s...57850498228225

Listed out the points made by the above gentleman (no idea who he is, he does put out his arguments well).

1. If the chiefs of the armed forces are onboard, why are the others having concerns? They would only take steps in the best interest of the nation and the armed forces.
2. the armed forces are not an employment scheme like MNREGA.
3. many other nations that follow this model - USA, China, Rusisa
4. You want the best to be taken in, there should
5. Merit based inclusion for permanent commission, and for those who do not make it they get 10L. For these persons, they get a degree and there are other avenues. Many states are now clamouring to induct in them into the police and crpf.
6. The thought that the trained battle ready who get discharged after 4years would be recruited by underworld is incorrect. It is not as if a shot put athlete after losing becomes a stone pelter.

===
disagree with some of the points made
(5) Firstly the program does not give a degree, one has to enroll for a 3 year degree program. Essentially meaning that if someone joins the program at, say, 18 years, they would be out in the job market when they have crossed 25 years.

(6) That we are seeing violence by the very same youth who were aspiring to get into the armed forces, should be worrying. These are youth without organization skills.

[ike]

Originally Posted by Piyush_DT

Also, saying that youth would be inclined to do anti-national activities. Indians don't do that else we would have seen this on the ground with or without training. Our upbringing is very good and we don't do that.

I don't know man, all the criminals in India currently are from outside of India? Very sweeping statement.

[attinder]

A 17/18 year old will get 12L+ in four years which can be used to start a business or get higher education. Not bad for kids who don't have families to support their careers.

[Lalvaz]

Just curious, if this scheme is so well thought out and so good for the defence forces, why should'nt this brilliant Agnipath or Agniveer scheme be extended to the officer cadre too?

Won't it save money on their pensions too, apart from the other benefits of this scheme?

Can anyone give a coherent response as to why is this only good for the junior staff and not other ranks?

Thank you!

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by attinder

A 17/18 year old will get 12L+ in four years which can be used to start a business or get higher education. Not bad for kids who don't have families to support their careers.

Do you think a 22 years old (probably with minimum education) knows how to utilize 12L+ for a profitable business ?
He wouldn't be able to rent a Shop - leave aside for the wares in the shop. First thing is to spend lavishly after four years of hard work.
He may end up in drugs in despair, worrying of his bleak future and a send off from Army. where some of his mates may be retained.
In construction field, I had often demanded from my management for less number but efficient workers. Give me Horses and not Donkeys is what I would say. It would be better to have a smaller but strong and experienced Army, rather than a large number of Novices. Novice, because it takes years to create a War Machine of a Recruit.

[attinder]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Do you think a 22 years old (probably with minimum education) knows how to utilize 12L+ for a profitable business ?

Still be in a better position than a delivery guy doing a underpaid, thankless job. Risking limb and life to deliver a quick order. Can be laid off anytime with 0 savings.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Just curious, if this scheme is so well thought out and so good for the defence forces, why should'nt this brilliant Agnipath or Agniveer scheme be extended to the officer cadre too?

FYI Short Service Commission attracts Training and Employment as Officers in Army.
Under short service commission, the Army allows 10-year service with an option of a 4-year extension.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Just curious, if this scheme is so well thought out and so good for the defence forces, why should'nt this brilliant Agnipath or Agniveer scheme be extended to the officer cadre too?

Won't it save money on their pensions too, apart from the other benefits of this scheme?

Can anyone give a coherent response as to why is this only good for the junior staff and not other ranks?

Thank you!

A very pertinent point. The answer is simple - that armed forces simply don't have as many officer cadre people as needed. They are already insufficient for the needs.

Which brings me to extended question. Why can't this scheme of recruiting young kids be extended to officer cadre too? If you are recruiting them early, you sure can train them to take leadership positions higher up as well.

And then the usual rhetoric of why armed forces? If there is lack of money, increase the budget. Cut the salary/pension of politicians first.

Indian armed forces is world's largest voluntary armed force in India. If you want people to join armed forces voluntarily, put their life on the line, you need all the incentives and motivations for young ones to join.

Yes we need more advanced tech and weapons. But when in need, it is still the men carrying the weapons and running the tech that matter.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by humyum

I will put my life on line for 4 years with no clear career path ahead because government wants to save money and my career is not their problem?

Suddenly, today they changed the age from 21 to 23, this shows how not thought through this is like everything the government does.

I am surprised there are not more protests in every state.

If you want to save money, stop building vista's, bullet trains, thousands of crores on election campaigns and roaming around like ibn-batuta.

Is this a conscription for every Indian? I believe joining armed forces is still voluntary either as soldier, JCO or permanent commission even with this new scheme. People can still chose not to opt for this.

Unfortunate truth is few states have surplus population in education completion age and does not have skills imparted to prepare for working age and armed forces has become one of the biggest beneficial employer and become a way out of the poverty cycle. Others end up as migrant labour. Now with that beneficial period getting reduced, these violent reactions are seen. This has shown the dark underbelly of armed forces recruitment similar the way farmers protest have shown the pockets of farmers impact/influence. This yet again confirms my belief that India is still run in a feudalistic manner. Each and every group has a vice like grip in the invisible spheres and wants to prolongate their own interests.

PS: I am not taking anything away from the service the armed forces render. In fact, they are the only ones who can truly claim as service oriented as they serve with their lives.

PPS: I only wish this government understands about change management and the step change approach rather than drastic and dramatic changes. They could have introduced this as additional stream and sunset the older one in few years time gradually.