[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

One simple question - Why cannot NGT ban the farm fires? ....

Because the NGT order will be a joke. Who do you think will ensure this ban is followed? The police? Good luck.
They couldn't ask the farmers to vacate the highway for 2 years and move to the designated place for protests (per the directions from the Supreme Court), you really think farmers will actually allow any ban to affect stubble burning?

[mayukh42]

Here is the AQI map of Indo-Gangetic plain. Not just Delhi, but even Kolkata looks bad.



As evident from the map, there is a pattern of air flow that chokes the atmosphere. Stubble burning significantly adds to it, but even the fact that there is a desert just west of this, is also contributory.

The least impact things are vehicle pollution and firecrackers, sadly our myopic administration cannot think beyond that. We can have all the discussion we want on these trivial contributors, but they are just conveniently used by the government to look like they are doing something.

IMO, we need to

• spread out the habitation around the belt instead of concentrating on few areas.
• plant more trees and then some more.
• move away the factories if possible.
• make stubble burning a punishable offence (to the extent of taking away the right to farm again)

Only then, start looking at vehicular pollution. Even there, start with trucks, buses, then cabs, and only then target the immaculately maintained regularly serviced passenger cars.

And people who say Diesel is dirty, well, we should think before calling out the more efficient non-renewable source of energy by names, when the supplies are only going downhill in future.

P.S. Forgot about the firecrackers. They create the biggest noise in the discussion (pun intended). But no, they are not important in the major scheme of things unless one has some other agenda.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

One simple question - Why cannot NGT ban the farm fires? After all they are known for passing strong orders though illogical...

I kid you not: this just appeared in a news tidbit by ANI:
"A Patwari, who went to insect a report of stubble burning n Faridkot's Jeewan Wala village, Punjab was taken hostage by a group of farmers".

Presently the tehsildar is holding negotiations with the "farmers" for the release of the Patwari.

[Raghu M]

If I were a resident of Delhi, would have moved a while ago. This is going nowhere and no one is going to resolve this. I thought someone said there are same governments in Delhi and PB and that things will be immediately resolved. That looks like a loong shot. I really feel bad for people staying in Delhi. So many conditions, odd even, BSIV, what not. After all this, do you get some clear air? NO. That is so bad. Not that Hyd is better off but at least the outskirts seem a little good.

[Chevyspark]

Originally Posted by clevermax

I assume that you're driving a petrol car. But that doesn't give you any right to call diesel a dirty fuel and ask for its ban. Diesel is moving the nation. Have you even checked the pollution levels a BS6 diesel makes? Forget BS6, just a BS3 or 4 even? New and well maintained diesel cars, built according to latest standards have similar emissions to new petrol vehicles.

Do you think Diesel is the root cause of the pollution mess that Delhi is experiencing.

I think I get your logic - diesel is giving more fuel efficiency and thus people are using it for 'leisure' purposes only. Yes, that calls for its nationwide ban.

Sir, i do not want to hurt sentiments of any diesel fanboy. Perhaps, diesel fuel vehicles are the scapegoat. The most of the problem is due to inhalation of particles such as dust and other stuffs due to unchecked and uncovered construction. Again sorry if I hurted anyone's sentiments.

[PGA]

Guys Iam a farmer in Punjab. I can narrate the ground situation if anyone is willing to listen but the way I see that majority of nation has already made up their mind and branded Punjabi farmer as culprit so a part of my mind says do not waste your breath trying to explain. Nevertheless I will write what is truth to the best of my knowledge.

- This year farm fires are substantially less as compared to last years.

- I expect greater fall next year and maybe another year after that when they come to almost complete halt.

- Yes, there is politics at play.

- Paddy in Punjab is essential for the nation, without that our reserves will go haywire and so will be our exports of basmati.

- The economic terms are pretty badly loaded against a farmer, weather change is playing havoc as well, so the cheapest option for him to light up.

A little explanation: Paddy grown in Punjab and elsewhere in North India has many varieties. High yielding ones take longest to mature and usually come in for harvesting around this time. While shorter duration ones have been taken care off a month ago. These long duration varieties have max amount of stubble which cannot be managed by a machine easily. Anyways mechanical intervention necessitates diesel expense of more than Rs 2000 per acre.There is hardly anytime left for wheat plantation which has to completed by 15 Nov to get full yield. So there it blows.

Now what's changing, high yielding varieties have borne the max impact of weather change, yields have plummeted and there has been huge impact of dwarf virus, so majority of farmers have given up on these varieties. Farmers have learnt some tricks to obtain higher yields from short duration ones and seed for these is already getting sold at premium. So its going to be goodbye to these long haul varieties.

Govt is doing a lot to explain things to farmers and some may not believe but I am hopeful of change very soon, as green revolution has run its course and soil is fully degraded and farmers have realised the need to rejuvenate it. Machines are coming in a big way, if diesel cools off a bit one may find much quicker acceptability.

Paddy in north India is a necessity for the nation no matter what the public opinion may state. North Indian states are not rice eating and thus produce is a surplus for the nation.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/pu...f-paddy-447336

Besides there is nothing more remunerative for the farmer to grow during this season so its going to stay and msp will also stay for that reason till the time our demographic dividend expends.

We are hopeful of things improving substantially in Punjab in next year or so but feel may not be so for Delhi

[batish]

Originally Posted by PGA

Guys I am a farmer in Punjab. I can narrate the ground situation if anyone is willing to listen

Somebody told me that if they don't burn and settle it with machine, there were chances that the next harvest of wheat could have diseases. If I am not wrong last cycle too wheat's produce had a hit due to early summers.

Secondly, has the government provided any support in the form of machines, PUSA decomposer or anything to tackle this problem?

Are most people stuck in wheat/paddy cycle because of fat profits or easier selling - MSP?

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by PGA

Guys Iam a farmer in Punjab. I can narrate the ground situation if anyone is willing to listen but the way I see that majority of nation has already made up their mind and branded Punjabi farmer as culprit so a part of my mind says do not waste your breath trying to explain. Nevertheless I will write what is truth to the best of my knowledge. .

We are hopeful of things improving substantially in Punjab in next year or so but feel may not be so for Delhi

Thanks for your post.

What is your estimate of how many days will the stubble burning be over?

Why do you think things will improve in Punjab, but not in Delhi next year?

Are you guys having pollution level in Punjab, as severe as in Delhi?

[PGA]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

What is your estimate of how many days will the stubble burning be over?

Why do you think things will improve in Punjab, but not in Delhi next year?

Are you guys having pollution level in Punjab, as severe as in Delhi?

Harvest is almost over I think we are past the peak fires, maybe 5 more days for whatever remaining to get over.

Pollution levels are not very bad in Punjab, AQI has not gone beyond 180, so there lies some answer to your second question. Pl check out the link below

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/pu...oderate-447376

Originally Posted by batish

Somebody told me that if they don't burn and settle it with machine, there were chances that the next harvest of wheat could have diseases. If I am not wrong last cycle too wheat's produce had a hit due to early summers.

Secondly, has the government provided any support in the form of machines, PUSA decomposer or anything to tackle this problem?

Are most people stuck in wheat/paddy cycle because of fat profits or easier selling - MSP?

I am practicing no till for wheat cultivation for last two years and prior to that haven't put stubble to light now for five years, haven't faced any problem till date. There is slight chance of stem borer which is easily manageable.

Yes Govt has provided support in terms of providing subsidy for machines for last three years in a big way. Even decomposer has been provided to whomsoever asked for it but its not a viable option, in my opinion, as its slow and scope of failure is huge.

Average yield of paddy per acre is 30qtls and it gets sold for Rs 2060 per qtl, so expected revenue is Rs 60,800 and for wheat the economics work out to approx 42500/- per acre, totalling upto a little more than a Lakh of revenue per acre per year. Excluding expenses of only the inputs we get a profit of approx Rs 70,000/- per acre per year doing wheat paddy cycle. With 75% of farmers having land holdings below 5 acres, Iam not not sure figures speak of fat profits.

[how_you_doing]

The best thing you can do for an Indian farmer is to get him out of farming.

India need farm laws and agriculture to be done at industrial scale to solve these problems. Freebie politics has destroyed this nation.

[Chevyspark]

Originally Posted by how_you_doing

The best thing you can do for an Indian farmer is to get him out of farming.

India need farm laws and agriculture to be done at industrial scale to solve these problems. Freebie politics has destroyed this nation.

Half of the population of India is associated with agricultural and it's allied activities. If agricultural activities is industrialised than there will be large unemployment especially in rural areas. After COVID there is reversed migration happened. People those who lost there jobs during lockdown some never got back in cities. They returned home and again started agricultural activities as labour participation has increased in agriculture after COVID. The government have to start even large scale MNREGA or have to launch nationwide universal basic income (UBI). This will become a huge dent for exchequer aka government instead of freebies.

[vabhian]

Originally Posted by how_you_doing

The best thing you can do for an Indian farmer is to get him out of farming.

India need farm laws and agriculture to be done at industrial scale to solve these problems. Freebie politics has destroyed this nation.

As someone else has already commented, 54.6% of population in India is engaged in agriculture and allied activities (2011 census). They form an indispensable part of the entire food chain and also contribute to agri exports.

Industrial farming is not at an answer to the problem at hand. I don't want to comment on the harms/ills of this "idea" as that would be digressing from the topic.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by how_you_doing

The best thing you can do for an Indian farmer is to get him out of farming.

India need farm laws and agriculture to be done at industrial scale to solve these problems. Freebie politics has destroyed this nation.

What should they do instead then? Indian cities already have more people than jobs. Industrial agriculture would make a few billionaires rich and millions of ordinary people very poor. When that happened in Europe, there was a whole new continent waiting to be populated, where the new displaced poor went. Where are the Indians displaced from agriculture supposed to go?

[superbad]

I have some queries to long time Delhi-NCR residents :-
1) Was there a similar amount of pollution 10-15 years back? I don't remember "AQI" being such a big deal during my school days.
2) Aren't you genuinely worried about the long term consequences of breathing such polluted air for one month every year? Especially if you have kids or a new born?

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by superbad

I have some queries to long time Delhi-NCR residents :-
1) Was there a similar amount of pollution 10-15 years back? I don't remember "AQI" being such a big deal during my school days.
2) Aren't you genuinely worried about the long term consequences of breathing such polluted air for one month every year? Especially if you have kids or a new born?

I was born and brought up in Delhi. Don’t remember such high AQI a decade back.
Regarding your second question, I have never met a single person who wasn’t worried about the menace. Few have actually bought a house in Dehradun or comparable cities so that they can avoid staying in NCR this time of the year.

But we need to remember, not everyone has the luxury to move because of monetary, family, occupational reasons. Also majority of the people living in Delhi is non-IT crowd. So it’s not like you can go to the office one day and ask for a transfer to Pune or Bangalore.

Bottom line- if you can’t escape it, then you just learn to endure it.