[batish]

Originally Posted by superbad

I have some queries to long time Delhi-NCR residents :-
1) Was there a similar amount of pollution 10-15 years back? I don't remember "AQI" being such a big deal during my school days.

Actually this problem started when stubble burning coincided with winters which is because the paddy now is planted keeping monsoons in mind. Earlier paddy was planted before monsoons, through flood irrigation which meant the water to plant paddy was directly from Tubewells instead of rain.

In 2009, Punjab passed the Punjab Preservation of Sub-Soil Water Act fixing the date for transplantation of paddy as June 10 - near monsoons. It reduced the consumption of underground water by more than 26% but the harvest time was delayed which coincided with winters and very less winds from Delhi. Also, there has been improvement in the yield of paddy in recent years. So the more the yield more stubble you have to deal with.

Another reason is the area under paddy plantation has increased in recent years.

Even this year, AQI was better after Diwali because of winds. These winds play a major role in pollution that is why you don't see pollution in Chandigarh or even at places where they burn the stubble.

2) Aren't you genuinely worried about the long term consequences of breathing such polluted air for one month every year?

It's actually whole winters but severely polluted for 2 months - November and December. Yes, there is worry but there's not much can be done. If there was any alternative it would have been grabbed by now. Alas.

[Dry Ice]

Question to people using air purifiers, do they help? Any recommendations to get one?

I know they might be in short supply right now, hopefully, can get it in time for next year.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Question to people using air purifiers, do they help? Any recommendations to get one?

I know they might be in short supply right now, hopefully, can get it in time for next year.

We have been using Coway for almost an year now with good experience. Ordered another one on Friday through Amazon and it was delivered today.

[himanshu_trikha]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Question to people using air purifiers, do they help? Any recommendations to get one?

I know they might be in short supply right now, hopefully, can get it in time for next year.

For what I understand, An air purifier is a simple recirculating fan with a filter that takes a slip stream of air around you and throws it back with almost nil particulates. Keep using it in recirculating mode and particulate matter is bound to decrease.The variables for simple air purifiers are Clean Air delivery rate ‘CADR’ and HEPA filter rating, higher the better. I still have my own reservation for other form of air purification using Ions and ozone.

We started using Air Purifiers around 5 years ago , now each of my rooms and living space has an air purifier.These devices are really effective with closed doors and HVAC system in place , which left to its own works in recirculating mode more than 90% of operating hours.I could check particulate levels with an independent monitor ,matching closely with low particle sensor on air purifier device.

In a setup where rooms and windows are open or need to be open on continuous basis/high frequency, my perceptible efficacy for air purifiers is close to zero.However ,still at night time where the doors are closed 8-10 hours ,air purifiers may prove beneficial.

I have two young kids and ageing parents with smoke/dust allergy issues.My user experience says that the device is effective and needed if you have to be in delhi during winters.

Hope it helps

Regard
Himanshu

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Question to people using air purifiers, do they help? Any recommendations to get one?

I know they might be in short supply right now, hopefully, can get it in time for next year.

The air filter is definitely of help. The trick is to use it in closed rooms and not believe the coverage volume as specified. You can clearly feel the difference as the AQI drops; the smell changes. We run it at full capacity to bring the number down to sub 100 and then reduce speed to bring it to 150-170ish. That's "normal" we have been using our Mi for last 3 years and the filter capacity is still 83%

[Ashdel]

I am a resident of Gas Chamber of India - Delhi since past 40 years - Its a every day story no matter which govt. is in force - but they can only do their bit to a certain extend. It's we as resident who have to play the major role in this - Look at Diwali - there were non stop crackers busted everywhere in NCR. We all have to contribute whatever we can - to start with - i took oath 4 years back for "no more Diesel cars" in my family. Period

[anjan_c2007]

The Delhi government retracts and decides to cancel ban on non BS VI diesel vehicles.

Post lifting of Stage-IV GRAP in Delhi-NCR, the ban on non-BS VI diesel-run light motor vehicles, and entry of trucks into the national capital have also been revoked, CAQM said.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/ind...2-11-06-821776

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by superbad

I have some queries to long time Delhi-NCR residents :-
1) Was there a similar amount of pollution 10-15 years back? I don't remember "AQI" being such a big deal during my school days.
2) Aren't you genuinely worried about the long term consequences of breathing such polluted air for one month every year? Especially if you have kids or a new born?

1. I don't remember such dizzying levels of bad air back in my school days. Post Diwali there used to immense haze and smog but never such persistent bad quality air (and mind you, numbers of crackers lit back then was 1000x compared to now)
2. We moved out of Delhi. Parents went back to Nainital and I shifted to Bangalore. Have relatives around still, but most have another home in Uttarakhand where they move to during this air menace. Quite a few don't.

[how_you_doing]

Originally Posted by Chevyspark

Half of the population of India is associated with agricultural and it's allied activities. If agricultural activities is industrialised than there will be large unemployment especially in rural areas. After COVID there is reversed migration happened. People those who lost there jobs during lockdown some never got back in cities. They returned home and again started agricultural activities as labour participation has increased in agriculture after COVID.

Agriculture accounts for 23% of India's GDP and employs 59% of its population. China has 25% in agriculture currently.

China moved 1% of its agriculture population to manufacture and construction every year from 1980s - 2010s. They had 70% of the people in agriculture in 1978, now around 25%.

The bandaid has to be removed sooner than later if we want to grow at 10% for the next 2 decades.

Originally Posted by vabhian

As someone else has already commented, 54.6% of population in India is engaged in agriculture and allied activities (2011 census). They form an indispensable part of the entire food chain and also contribute to agri exports.

Industrial farming is not at an answer to the problem at hand. I don't want to comment on the harms/ills of this "idea" as that would be digressing from the topic.

Indian farmers are the poorest in the world and do farming mostly because of the subsidies provided by the government otherwise they won't make any money. I understand the situation is complicated as the government has to provide a livelihood to poor citizens of the country and they are a massive vote bank. Even though Indian farmer is poorer than Ukraine/Russian farmers, wheat sold by Ukraine and Russia is cheaper in the market. We can export 100s of billions of dollars of grain and agricultural products (this can be even Trillion dollars or more if we count final products) if we move to industrial farming.

Industrial farming can do to India what manufacturing did to China. China is exporting 900 Billion dollars of electronics to the world.

Originally Posted by karanddd

What should they do instead then? Indian cities already have more people than jobs. Industrial agriculture would make a few billionaires rich and millions of ordinary people very poor.

Billionaires are not the problem. In fact, Tata/Ambani/Adani is the best thing that is happening to the country right now. They are the biggest wealth creators and job creators in the country.

We need to learn from the mistakes made in 1970s and 80s and even in 1990s by the socialist and communist economic policies. They just don't work. A farmer can earn more while working on an industrial farm living a better quality of life than being abused by middlemen.

In India, people using Jio for mobile, IndiGo to travel, ICICI as a bank, Ola/Uber for cabs, and Swiggy/Zomata for food say privatization is bad.

Of course, it is not easy to make farmers leave their small few-acre lands as they treat them as assets and sell them when they need money but this is where we need to start educating them. I don't think any poor farmer wants their children to do farming anyway in the traditional sense where you rely on monsoons and get exploited by everyone.

[Chevyspark]

Originally Posted by how_you_doing

Agriculture accounts for 23% of India's GDP and employs 59% of its population. China has 25% in agriculture currently.

China moved 1% of its agriculture population to manufacture and construction every year from 1980s - 2010s. They had 70% of the people in agriculture in 1978, now around 25%.

The bandaid has to be removed sooner than later if we want to grow at 10% for the next 2 decades.

Share of US & CHINA in manufacturing is greater than 10% in share in their national output.
It is 5-10% for Germany & Japan.
Whereas in India it is between 1-2%
China's manufacturing is more than 10 times that of India. Even if India snatch some portion from china. And shifting is tough, a distant dream.

[how_you_doing]

Originally Posted by Chevyspark

Share of US & CHINA in manufacturing is greater than 10% in share in their national output.
It is 5-10% for Germany & Japan.
Whereas in India it is between 1-2%
China's manufacturing is more than 10 times that of India. Even if India snatch some portion from china. And shifting is tough, a distant dream.

Thanks to this thread, I am also doing some research, reading, and learning. I think everyone in India should check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_India as many of us don't know the exact numbers. There is also this good article.

China spends a lot more on agriculture knowledge and innovation system (AKIS), which includes agri R&D, and extension. It invested $7.8 billion on AKIS in 2018-19—5.6 times the amount spent by India ($1.4 billion). A 2018 study by Gulati and Terway on the impact of investment and subsidies on agri-GDP growth, and poverty alleviation revealed that the highest impact is from investments in agriculture Research and Education (R&E). The study estimated that for every rupee invested in R&E, agri-GDP increases by `11.2, and for every million rupees spent on agri-R&E, 328 people are brought out of poverty. Presently, India invests just about 0.35% of its agri-Gross Value Added (GVA) whereas China spends 0.8% (expenditure by Centre only; see graphic). For increasing total factor productivity, India needs to increase expenditure on agri-R&D

Coming to your point, you are right. China worked as a single unit. They have a vision for the country in 1970 and even now when they talk about 2048. We lack such vision and execution. Industrialized Farming can play a big role to take India to a 20 Trillion USD economy in the next 20-25 years as we have the largest arable land in the world.

[CEF_Beasts]

With the air quality index having improved, the curbs have been lifted



https://www.indiatvnews.com/amp/news...2-11-06-821776

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The Delhi government retracts and decides to cancel ban on non BS VI diesel vehicles.

It seems the graded response plan is lowered from stage 4 to 3. I think it's only 3 days ago that it came into action. Has the air quality improved so fast? As per what PGA wrote stubble fires are mostly over and will be fully done in 5 days. So the air quality will improve further, I hope.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

It seems the graded response plan is lowered from stage 4 to 3. I think it's only 3 days ago that it came into action. Has the air quality improved so fast? As per what PGA wrote stubble fires are mostly over and will be fully done in 5 days. So the air quality will improve further, I hope.

Farm fires are tapering off, while the wind has picked up a bit. This is cleared away the smog a little. AQI is expected to stay in the 300-350 range for the near future, that is the poor category.

Overall, the pollution has been significantly less severe as compared to the previous 3-4 years for this Diwali and immediately afterwards period.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by batish

Actually this problem started when stubble burning coincided with winters which is because the paddy now is planted keeping monsoons in mind. Earlier paddy was planted before monsoons, through flood irrigation which meant the water to plant paddy was directly from Tubewells instead of rain.

In 2009, Punjab passed the Punjab Preservation of Sub-Soil Water Act fixing the date for transplantation of paddy as June 10 - near monsoons. It reduced the consumption of underground water by more than 26% but the harvest time was delayed which coincided with winters and very less winds from Delhi. Also, there has been improvement in the yield of paddy in recent years. So the more the yield more stubble you have to deal with.

YES! This is the reason, which for some reason most people don't know about. The government, in its infinite wisdom, promoted a crop that the locals don't eat and that requires massive amounts of water. Then when the water table dropped, they mandated arbitrary cut-offs for sowing, which led to farmers burning stubble. This is entirely a man-made disaster.