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Old 12th July 2023, 10:32   #1276
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
TCS delays onboarding of lateral hires amid project delays and budget cuts
This is something very very rare if true, and it wil raise a big question mark about overall competence of management.

They shouldn't have released these offers, situation is not changed overnight due to some unforseen event .
Imagine plight of someone paying EMIs and having family.

Now, anyone who receives offer from TCS will definitely utilise notice period to "collect" offer laters from other companies, and events like this justifies such behaviour also.
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Old 12th July 2023, 10:50   #1277
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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This is something very very rare if true, and it wil raise a big question mark about overall competence of management.
I don't think this is rare anymore in India. Rescinding and delaying offers at the last moment used to happen with startups and now is becoming increasingly common with both service companies and MNCs - both with freshers and lateral hires.

I wouldn't risk a job change these days with only one offer in hand, no matter how reputed the company is.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 12th July 2023 at 10:53.
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Old 12th July 2023, 11:58   #1278
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Originally Posted by Vishal.R View Post
This is something very very rare if true,
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Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
Rescinding and delaying offers at the last moment used to happen with startups and now is becoming increasingly common with both service companies and MNCs - both with freshers and lateral hires.
Neither rare, nor uncommon and certainly not a new phenomenon. Not restricted to startups.

I've seen this happen to friends even a couple of decades ago from brand name IT companies.

I don't know what financial planning means when you get a budget for x hires in one quarter. Then get another budget to take everyone on a lavish offsite the next quarter. Then find yourself firing people and rescinding offers the third quarter. And finally looking to fill those roles again in a couple of quarters!

(Beyond the comprehension of mere rank-and-file folk like me, I guess, there must be some MBA-speak that covers it though.)
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Old 12th July 2023, 12:57   #1279
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Couple of depressing news
...and it is getting worse

Dunzo caps salaries at Rs 75,000 for June, promises to clear dues by July 20

Source

Quote:
Dunzo, the quick-commerce player that is faced with a severe cash crunch, had capped the monthly salary of employees at Rs 75,000 in June, people in the know told Moneycontrol. This essentially meant that no one would get more than the fixed amount, even if they have a higher package. It also ensured that everyone earning less than the amount would get their salary in full.
Quote:
These recent moves could potentially lead to more layoffs and voluntary exits at the Bengaluru-based startup, which has already fired around 380 employees across two rounds of layoffs so far this year.
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Old 12th July 2023, 13:55   #1280
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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TCS delays onboarding of lateral hires amid project delays and budget cuts

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Wipro did something (which I have never seen in my 16 years of IT career) earlier this year for freshers. People got mail asking them if they were ready to join at almost half the salaries or let go of their offers.

Link

And what's worse? As per Wipro 90% freshers even agreed to it.

Link

Goes on to show how bad the situation is out there.

Looking at these things(offer rescinding/mass layoffs), I wonder how far is the day when contract gigs become a norm in India as well like in developed countries. I mean if either ways(FTE/FTC) there's no job guarantee, one is better off belting big bucks as a contractor while the sun shines(whenever it will shine again i.e.)

Last edited by libranof1987 : 14th July 2023 at 16:11. Reason: Minor typo
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Old 12th July 2023, 14:21   #1281
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
TCS delays onboarding of lateral hires amid project delays and budget cuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishal.R View Post
This is something very very rare if true, and it wil raise a big question mark about overall competence of management.
This happened in 2008 and 2009 as well; joining dates were deferred by almost 6-12 months by the likes of IBM, TCS, Infosys and others.

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Wipro did something (which I have never seen in my 16 years of IT career) earlier this year for freshers. People got mail asking them if they were ready to join at almost half the salaries or let go of their offers.
This is for their Velocity program; the initial offer letters for 6.5 lakhs were brought down to 3.5 lakhs (which is what Wipro and other ITES firms offer to new joinees anyway).
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Old 12th July 2023, 14:24   #1282
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

TCS has delayed onboarding of lateral hires in a big way. My wife was one of the people who was about to join in a couple of days time, she had already been relieved from her previous organisation and got a call yesterday informing that the onboarding would now only happen in October. The HR's are sympathetic but clueless as to what is happening.

The aggrieved employees apparently number in the hundreds. This is a sad situation for people who are sole earners or have stringent monthly commitments. I for one never expected a TATA group company to stoop so low.
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Old 12th July 2023, 14:38   #1283
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

I have heard of delaying the onboarding for Freshers during 2008, 2020, etc. Delaying the onboarding for lateral hires in bulk is a new low.

They expect people to quit their old jobs and wait for the call from TCS? They do this and call a press conference to talk about ethics!!
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Old 12th July 2023, 14:48   #1284
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I don't think this is rare anymore in India. Rescinding and delaying offers at the last moment used to happen with startups and now is becoming increasingly common with both service companies and MNCs - both with freshers and lateral hires.
Freshers, I can understand as the offers are made well in advance, joining dates are aligned to academic calendar, there is cost in training, etc.

But I don't get laterals, sure somethings change during the 1 or 2 month period, but it should not be large numbers. If you are rescinding/differing lateral hires in large numbers, it just reeks of incompetence.
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Old 12th July 2023, 15:08   #1285
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I mean if either ways(FTE/FTC) there's no job guarantee, one is better off belting big bucks as a contractor
Even contractors are not spared now. They are being replaced by poor interns from the college. An intern gets paid even less than a fresher nowadays. They would have taken some courses in college and happily work for a few months for whatever pittance they get paid. Some of them are really good and are productive - FTEs and FTCs can take a hike

Someday in future - you are allowed to step into the hallowed portals of our great company and are permitted to mention that in your resume. For that you are supposed to work here without any pay.

Last edited by AltoLXI : 12th July 2023 at 15:20.
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Old 12th July 2023, 15:39   #1286
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Even contractors are not spared now. They are being replaced by poor interns from the college. An intern gets paid even less than a fresher nowadays. They would have taken some courses in college and happily work for a few months for whatever pittance they get paid. Some of them are really good and are productive - FTEs and FTCs can take a hike
I was not talking about coding jobs. More of consulting for folks like me doing architect roles & are at the verge of hitting 40 post which once laid off, its tough to find another FTE job(as seen in 2008/09/2020/22/23). Am sure interns can't do that job that easily as of yet. Our education system hasn't evolved that much & unless you have hardcore experience in the field it might be tough to design optimum solutions. So till the time 'sun-shines' on you, make as many bucks as you can and try to reach as close to being FI(Financially Independent) as you can.

Atleast by the time interns are smart enough to do such work right while studying in college, my career would have ended[intend to work in IT till 2030] am sure

Last edited by SoumenD : 12th July 2023 at 15:41.
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Old 12th July 2023, 15:56   #1287
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Am sure interns can't do that job that easily as of yet.
For that there is another solution

Call the guys for the interview, give them "take this architectural challenge home and return with a solution" and then reject them. Many startups are doing this for some positions.

On a serious note, some are questioning the legality of these practices, but these "innovations" in hiring will continue.
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Old 12th July 2023, 17:04   #1288
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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For that there is another solution

Call the guys for the interview, give them "take this architectural challenge home and return with a solution" and then reject them. Many startups are doing this for some positions.


Next what? Holding a gun to your face and getting work done. Sparing your life is your remuneration

Anyways, I guess we are way off topic here. So lets get back to it.

Last edited by SoumenD : 12th July 2023 at 17:05.
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Old 12th July 2023, 17:56   #1289
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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...I wonder how far is the day when contract gigs become a norm in India as well like in developer countries. ...one is better off belting big bucks as a contractor...
Gig roles, quite possible they will become more prevalent, even for senior tech functions. I fully anticipate the last decade/half-decade of my career (whenever that rolls around) will be spent doing part-time gigs. Am building my network consciously now. I see a couple of my ex-bosses (US-based) already in that phase of their careers.

Not sure if such jobs will involve big bucks though. It may just be the way a lot of us will be able to work beyond a point in IT. It's going to be a big shift for people like me who went through the initial phase of their careers thinking steady, full-time employment was always a given in Indian IT. But for freshers, it might be a welcome shift. Work for a few months, build a portfolio, contacts. Take a few off. Come back to work.

(Not a work-model conducive to home loans, children, and other debt traps though. Perhaps that's a good thing. )

Last edited by am1m : 12th July 2023 at 17:57.
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Old 12th July 2023, 19:40   #1290
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I don't know what financial planning means when you get a budget for x hires in one quarter. Then get another budget to take everyone on a lavish offsite the next quarter. Then find yourself firing people and rescinding offers the third quarter. And finally looking to fill those roles again in a couple of quarters!

(Beyond the comprehension of mere rank-and-file folk like me, I guess, there must be some MBA-speak that covers it though.)
Just in case my post comes across as MBA gyan , let me clarify at the outset that I am not
I am a rank and file person as well and agree with nearly all your posts including this one.

Here are my musings on the topic of organizational financial planning.

Primarily there are two sides to it.
On one side, the first line of the quoted post basically sums up the financial planning across majority of large organizations. It is practically meaningless to the extent I would call the process a joke. What typically happens is that around last quarter of a fiscal year, companies get into this mode to plan and forecast for next year. The entire exercise is just guesswork based on few attributes like - expected contract renewals, recurring revenue, new growth opportunities (markets, clients, regions) being targeted, operational expenses, etc. All this is up in the air kind of conversations and that is why things rarely go as per plan.

One the other hand, companies continue to do this every year. Why would that really be if it is that useless? Because it’s a necessary evil.

Let’s say someone has a 1 acre raw land and they want to open up a cafe on it. Before they start the operations, they would want to find how much money is needed per month for operational stuff. To come up with an educated guess, they will first need to forecast things like number of customers, average bill per order, salary expense for chefs, waiters & support staff, input costs around raw materials, utilities, etc etc.
Now for someone who is starting out, it's nearly impossible to predict these accurately. It's just not very easy and end up being a bunch of assumptions. Even to come up with some estimated numbers, one would expect this to be a pretty complex exercise. And we can safely assume that despite best efforts, most people will get the projections wrong.

Even then, would we recommend a person to open up a restaurant without a financial plan? Probably not.
Same way organizations cannot do business without a financial plan.

Add to that, the complexity is a thousand times while talking about companies like TCS, etc. They are running a business which is way bigger than a cafe, spans across multiple countries, umpteen lines of business, multi-storied offices with diverse set of stakeholders and that tells us why their planning is almost always inaccurate.

One definite benefit of doing the plans is that companies can track progress and we know tracking is one thing that management across the board truly loves. So next time we see contradictory decisions - lavish offsite in one quarter and hiring freeze in next - someone somewhere looked at the progress against the beloved financial plan to make that call.

Last edited by warrioraks : 12th July 2023 at 19:56.
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