[joecherian]

Has anyone tried the online grievance Management website for PF related issues ? Home Page

[e1t1bet]

Is there a legal provision that can save you from paying PF? I hate this more than tax!

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

Is there a legal provision that can save you from paying PF? I hate this more than tax!

Nah. Sorry. If you are an employer, sometimes, the government can exempt you if you have a better option, which is compulsoritly applicable to all employees. As an employee, no.

And unlike taxes, you get the whole amount back along with contributions from your employer, with interest. Current interest is 9.5%. This amount is exempt from attachment / seizure. If you contribute for at least 10 years, you are also entitled to a pension after completing age fo 50, upon ceasing to hold a job. You really do not want to opt out. Think it over.

Edit - pension is in addition to return of your contribution.

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Current interest is 9.5%.

Since when? As far as I know it has been 8.5% for quite some time now.

If you contribute for at least 10 years, you are also entitled to a pension after completing age fo 50, upon ceasing to hold a job. You really do not want to opt out. Think it over.

Edit - pension is in addition to return of your contribution.

At least for private sector employees the pension is hardly an additional enticement. It does not come free. Part of your PF contribution goes towards this pension fund. And at the end you get back peanuts. It actually is daylight robbery by the government. For example, my pension fund corpus is about 1.5 lakhs now which I can't ever withdraw, and which entitles me to a princely sum of about Rs. 1000/- pm after I turn 58 (by which time it will probably buy me only a kg. of sugar ), and only a fraction of that sum after age 50.

The PF part, on the other hand, is what is useful, because I can get a tidy lumpsum.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by meerkat

Since when? As far as I know it has been 8.5% for quite some time now.

From today.

The Hindu Business Line : PF interest rate hiked to 9.5%

You owe me a treat for telling you!!!!

At least for private sector employees the pension is hardly an additional enticement. It does not come free. Part of your PF contribution goes towards this pension fund. And at the end you get back peanuts. It actually is daylight robbery by the government. For example, my pension fund corpus is about 1.5 lakhs now which I can't ever withdraw, and which entitles me to a princely sum of about Rs. 1000/- pm after I turn 58 (by which time it will probably buy me only a kg. of sugar ), and only a fraction of that sum after age 50.

The PF part, on the other hand, is what is useful, because I can get a tidy lumpsum.

I am not sure about how much 1.5 lakh pension corpus will fetch you.

1000 is the minimum pension, AFAIK. There is also a DA component.

Additionaly, you can ask for a part of the pension to be paid in lump. This process is called "commuting". You can opt to forgo 1/3 of your pension (with proportionate DA) for N years (not sure of the details). At the end of N years, you continue to get the full pension.

For most persons earning 30K plus per month or better, 1K pension even if it is with DA is peanuts. Put yourselves in the shoes of a blue / grey collar worker earning 50K permonth. (I have seen some). I K per months is a huge sum for them.

The pension would be credited to your bank account electronically.

No offence meant. Just pointing out that the value depends on perception. No other means of savings assures an attachment free source of income in old age. That is most crucial value of PF.

I know these details because I work in a social security related function of the Kerala Government. I get to see plenty of documentation related to PF. I may not be authorative. 800K is the minimum pension a person gets (including DA).

I do feel that the pension structure does penalise those who make larger contributions, but that is a defect of the system which can / ought to be receified.

[e1t1bet]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

And unlike taxes, you get the whole amount back along with contributions from your employer, with interest. Current interest is 9.5%. This amount is exempt from attachment / seizure. If you contribute for at least 10 years, you are also entitled to a pension after completing age fo 50, upon ceasing to hold a job. You really do not want to opt out. Think it over.

That's just so anti democracy. Government saving for you, without even your consent.
I know so many people who didn't receive a penny for like a year after they quit their jobs. What about the interest in this period?
And the return thing is so bogus. Over a 5-6 yr period, I can get more than 9% p.a. from the market in my sleep. So in effect, the government is also robbing me.

EDIT: And I feel very strongly against such blatant extortion in the name of welfare. I don't need any welfare from the likes of our politicians.I am actually thinking of pursuing this at my next job (hopefully). I don't mind rounds to different courts.

[Abbas]

Guys i use to work for an MNC in hyd way back in 2005 - 2006. I do have my payslips with me till date which shows PF being deducted from my a/c. I do not have a relieving letter from the company and i have worked just for 9 months. So is there a way i can withdraw this amount. Although the amount must be very less, but any money is good money right?

So guys please help, If its possible to withdraw, where do apply for withdrawal.

Abbas.

[sammyboy]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

Is there a legal provision that can save you from paying PF? I hate this more than tax!

Ofcourse there is. It just depends on your company policy. I havent been taking PF for the past 2.5 years and I work for a BIG MNC. They said that the option is available and I took it. Talk to the finance guys in your office. The option is only available after a particular level though (designation) in my company.

@Abbas : Yes you can withdraw the money(it will be taxed though) or transfer to the new work place if you want. The PF is yours, no one can take it from you. There are a couple of forms that you need to fill to get this done. Sorry, dont remember the names/numbers of the forms.
Check the govt. pf site, i remember the forms are downloadable from there.

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Additionaly, you can ask for a part of the pension to be paid in lump. This process is called "commuting".

This is incorrect. This option was abolished quite sometime back. So my 1.5 lakhs is gone into the government blackhole, never to be seen again!

Put yourselves in the shoes of a blue / grey collar worker earning 50K permonth. (I have seen some).

Oops! Did you really see such lucky people?

I get to see plenty of documentation related to PF. I may not be authorative. 800K is the minimum pension a person gets (including DA).

Oops again!

I do feel that the pension structure does penalise those who make larger contributions

As far as I know, the largest contribution is limited to some 6500 rupees per year! This is not a large sum for many people. My only gripe is that the corpus built out of this over the years is not to be seen ever again by the employees. So this amount is just as good as a tax (given the measly sum promised as pension).

I know these details because I work in a social security related function of the Kerala Government.

All the more reason for you to keep up-to-date with all the rules!

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

That's just so anti democracy. Government saving for you, without even your consent.

Err.. emmm.... it is called "welfare state". :-D

I know so many people who didn't receive a penny for like a year after they quit their jobs. What about the interest in this period?

AFAIK, you continue to earn interest till the amount is withdrawn.

And the return thing is so bogus. Over a 5-6 yr period, I can get more than 9% p.a. from the market in my sleep. So in effect, the government is also robbing me.

Other investment options offering equivalent safety offer still lesser rate of returns.

EDIT: And I feel very strongly against such blatant extortion in the name of welfare. I don't need any welfare from the likes of our politicians.I am actually thinking of pursuing this at my next job (hopefully). I don't mind rounds to different courts.

You need not pay EPF if you are a part of the management. Get yourselves designated as "manager, bla bla", and you are done, in current job itself.

Originally Posted by Abbas

Guys i use to work for an MNC in hyd way back in 2005 - 2006. I do have my payslips with me till date which shows PF being deducted from my a/c. I do not have a relieving letter from the company and i have worked just for 9 months. So is there a way i can withdraw this amount. Although the amount must be very less, but any money is good money right?
So guys please help, If its possible to withdraw, where do apply for withdrawal.

The accounts / HR people in your current job would be able to help you here. May not be officially, but they will know which office to go to, and what papers to move.

And there are touts for this too.

Originally Posted by meerkat

This is incorrect. This option was abolished quite sometime back. So my 1.5 lakhs is gone into the government blackhole, never to be seen again!

I keep my own Govt. PF contributions to the bare minimum, and manage my own savings.

Oops! Did you really see such lucky people?

According to folklore, sweepers at a stock exchange listed, sardarji managed, greek god named company manufacturing round things with holes in middle and used in tyres get 25K per month as take home salary.

Here is an advise to people opting out of EPF - consider enrolling in the "new pension scheme". This one is managed by private / PSU players, and YOU get to choose where your money is invested - equity or debt.

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

AFAIK, you continue to earn interest till the amount is withdrawn.

Not anymore! A cutoff limit of 3 years of non-contribution has been proposed along with the 9.5% rate hike on 15th Sept, 2010. After that no further interests will accrue, irrespective of whenever the fund is withdrawn!

[shuvadips]

Originally Posted by meerkat

Not anymore! A cutoff limit of 3 years of non-contribution has been proposed along with the 9.5% rate hike on 15th Sept, 2010. After that no further interests will accrue, irrespective of whenever the fund is withdrawn!

That is correct.


I believe that the NPS scheme is the best thing that has happened to us. It costs us almost nothing but we do get the power of equities which when compounded in the long run can give us quite a handful.

[rohan_iitr]

I need some money for my wedding ceremony. For this purpose, I have 3 options:
1. Withdraw from PPF
2. Withdraw from EPF
3. Take refundable loan from EPF

Which would be the best option ?

I have completed 5 years. Would this withdrawal be completely tax free ?

I am inclined towards withdrawing from PPF since EPF has marginally better rate of interest.

Is it a good idea to take refundable loan from EPF ?

Rohan

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

I need some money for my wedding ceremony. For this purpose, I have 3 options:
1. Withdraw from PPF
2. Withdraw from EPF
3. Take refundable loan from EPF

Which would be the best option ?

I have completed 5 years. Would this withdrawal be completely tax free ?

I am inclined towards withdrawing from PPF since EPF has marginally better rate of interest.

Is it a good idea to take refundable loan from EPF ?

Rohan

In case you want to withdraw from PPF you can do so onlyafter completion of 5 yrs and that to 50% of balance at the end of 5th year. You can take a loan from PPF from 3rd year subject to 25% of balance at the end of 2nd year.

You can take a loan from EPF but I dont know the rules for the same. In my case the EPF is from the emplyer trust hence taking a loan is relatively easier.

[rohan_iitr]

Thanks for the reply.

Like I mentioned, I have completed 5 years for both EPF and PPF.

Can you confirm that the withdrawal would be tax free ?

Rohan