Quote:
Originally Posted by huntrz While I don't agree with many of the arguments that have been made in this discussion previously but this is something I too am troubled with. Even the industry is willing to recruit non comp sci graduates and I don't under stand why. Colleges are merely following the precedent by trying to churn out as many software degrees as possible. |
There is a reason for that, I have answered this before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai About 80% of the work done in IT field anyway doesn't need technical background or aptitude. Any degree (B.A/B.Com/B.Sc) graduate can do these jobs. [In fact, even 10th or 12th grade pass-outs can do many of these jobs. But we are a degree obsessed country, white collar employees are expected to have a college degree. So let's not go there.]
But the large IT companies, who mainly operate in service industry want bodies in huge numbers. So they set objective filters, set similar parameters for recruiting. One of those parameter is 4-year degree, forced by H1 visa requirement. Because of that, 3-year degree holders get eliminated from the race. So companies hire 100% of their requirement from engineering pool, even the 80% that doesn't need technical background. |
So colleges are creating engineers with no real technical knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntrz If salary were not the criteria, majority of Engineers wouldn't be writing CAT and other MBA entrances that too fresh out of college. Many a times I don't understand if combination of Engineering + MBA does make sense except for the placements(where engineering back ground hardly matters). I don't think that an MBA degree adds any substantial value to a freshly passed out engineer. |
You are right. One should take up MBA only after few years of experience, to extract the real value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte What can you do? Blame the parents who have molly-coddled them all the time and taken decisions on their behalf? |
Many parents continue to provide ignorant career advice even after the kid starts working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntrz Obviously it leads to the dilution of the credibility of the degree itself as an MTech hardly has an edge in regular IT jobs as they start at the same job level as BTech. |
This is exactly what I am talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos As I mentioned, I have no idea about this university or what it teaches. If the university is so pathetic, I can imagine you hold your grudges against it. |
No, I am only commenting on the pedagogy of their CS M.Tech program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos However in a real masters program, spoon feeding is never done nor are any level or basic computer science courses repeated. |
That is true. My comment was only against CS M.Tech as it is mostly offered in India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos It most definitely does as long as you work in the right place doing the right kind of work. |
I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos However in 8/10 software companies these days - especially the service oriented body shops that employ most of the tier 2/3 college students, there's very little to nothing that one learns from experience. |
I said the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos There's the fallacy in your thinking - a good research based masters course has nothing like a syllabus and one has to do very few courses if any. |
I was not talking about a good research based masters course, but one based on syllabus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos This is something that is super rare to find in the industry where very few top class folks get the opportunity to do open ended research where one himself/herself decides what they wish to do without any external pressure. The inconvenient truth is that only if you have been through something like that, you'd know the value of the same. |
Well, since 15 years I have always decided what I want to work on, and then worked on it. I set the goal, and then reach it, using the best means available to me. So you can say I know the value of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos Anyway this post is long enough - to summarize, do not discount the value add of a good master's degree. |
Why do you keep preaching to the choir? I am in fact a recipient of a very good master's degree from a very good university. I had to really work hard for this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai About 11 years after my graduation, I took up MBA at an UK university. That was the first time I was exposed to real academic learning. The exams were tough as hell and mostly in essay and case study format. They gave marks only if you demonstrate clear understanding of the topic. Reproducing the material by memory would get you a big zero. And there was no choice, you had to answer every question. It was so refreshing, to see an education system that actually forced you to learn. |
Just received my alumni magazine today, my alma mater is ranked the best Scottish University for the second year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKMCE But for reasons mentioned above I will not be too harsh in judging fresh graduates. I am not going to be hyper criticial on what the fresh graduate does or does not know, but as long as they demonstrate they have the core concepts in place and shows an ability to grasp things quickly, that will be enough for me than the fact that some one missed getting the 75% minimum in 1 out of 60 papers by 1 mark or doesnt know what is the significance of Ramanujan number. |
The core concepts questions will baffle most FCD (First Class with Distinction) candidates. That is the longest standing grouse of mine in this thread.
Example...
Me: Name some of the courses from the final semester.
He: Software Testing, Network security, blah, blah...
Me: When did you write the exam on Software Testing?
He: Last month.
Me: Can you name different types of Software Tests?
He: Ugh.. um... don't remember, it was a while back.
When I report such instances on this thread, I get slammed for being a heartless SOB, trying to show my superiority by harassing the poor but brilliant FCDs.