[rkg]

Originally Posted by mobike008

For the first time, I swapped my reward points of HDFC Credit Card which is in excess of 15,000 points for food vouchers

I traded approximately 6300 points for the following :-

Rs.100 X 10 vouchers of Domino Pizza = Rs.1000
Rs.250 X 4 vouchers of Mainland China/Sigree etc = Rs.1000

Basically Rs.2000 worth for 6300 points. Not a bad deal..eh?

I got the vouchers delivered by courier in a lightning 2 days from my online request.

Any terms and conditions for the vouchers?

Like valid on a purchase of Rs 500/1000 etc etc?

[null]

Well, this time, my card indeed got compromised. Got a text stating 70K transaction has taken place & requesting authorisation. luckily saw the msgs (3 in a row) and called up SCB and got the card blocked. Also rejected the transaction by replying to the text from my phone based on their instruction. Upon rejection by sms, there was an immediate automatic call back from the IVR, but the agent never came online. So, it was was of me to call up the helpline wihtout really depending on this sms/IVR.

Luckily, I was awake when this sms alert came and I noticed it and acted on it. If I had missed it and the transaction was authorised, then it wouldve taken days / week sto resolve the mess.

2nd time now in last 1 month, I am facing this. First time with ICICI where it was a "likely to be compromised" call. This time with SCB where the transaction took place. The transaction location was somewhere in the Gulf.

I suspect the data is snipped off from some online database or from some infected POS as I do not recollect using this card at any place which can be suspected.

Now thinking of taking a card with a low limit of 20K or 25K for normal use. Also, using this particular credit card only (or a virtual credit card where I can set the limit to zero when not in use) for all online transactions.

Pl. beware of the online transactions. Suggest you all to switch to the VCC like setup (like how I have from ICICI bank) for unknown payments like online purchases.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by rkg

Any terms and conditions for the vouchers? Like valid on a purchase of Rs 500/1000 etc etc?

Valid till 2014 ( Dont remember till which month) and no other conditions like minimum purchase should be a certain amount

Suppose your bill at Mainland China is Rs.2000, you pay 1000 via. vouchers and remaining thousand by cash/card. Simple !

P.S: There is one 2000 discount voucher on cleartrip for 6000 points. Plan to buy that when I travel next.

[Red Liner]

Is there something like a pre-paid credit card that can be used online on shopping sites (international ones) or even at local shops? I just don't want the hassle of a regular credit card. Or can I get a VCC without actually owning a regular credit card?

[Karthik1100]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Is there something like a pre-paid credit card that can be used online on shopping sites (international ones) or even at local shops? I just don't want the hassle of a regular credit card. Or can I get a VCC without actually owning a regular credit card?

Firstly, a prepaid card is a card with pre-loaded amount and cannot be called a credit card. Prepaid cards do exist as well as virtual cards offered by various banks in association with Mastercard/ Visa/ Rupay/ Amex etc.

Prepaid cards are of various varieties like Gift Card(not reloadable), Travel Card, General Purpose card etc depending on your need. Offered by Banks like CBI, BOB, Federal, HDFC, Karnataka, Ratnakar etc. Check their sites to know more.

Virtual Card from SBI and HDFC are very popular.

Using a Prepaid card/ virtual card is definitely safer than using the regular cards.

P.S: I work on the software part of the above products.

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Is there something like a pre-paid credit card that can be used online on shopping sites (international ones) or even at local shops? I just don't want the hassle of a regular credit card. Or can I get a VCC without actually owning a regular credit card?

Most of the banks today offer virtual cards for which the limit can be set by us. This could be used for internet transactions when required. I think the overall limit would be part of your main Card (ICICI does this)

I am not sure of the time it takes to settle disputes on pre-paid cards, unlike credit cards where the money is not lost.

[sgiitk]

The type of fraud we are seeing will be very tough to catch. A virtual card, or a supplementary card may not help much. The data is skimmed off from some establishment where one does a legit transaction. Now from here the card information propagates on the underground. If you are out of the country it is quite probable that you are using a matrix card or something and are not using your India phone no. Maybe you are in a place with a different system (CDMA/GSM/off frequency band). International Roaming charges are very very steep. Hence the sms will not reach you. I feel they should somehow ensure/force that the merchant does not keep your card details and just gets a transaction identity in his records. Then there may be some reduction in such frauds.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by binand

Unless banks (a) not have the magnetic stripe on chip-enabled cards, and (b) decline all swipe transactions made by a known chip card without exceptions, fraud will continue to happen.

Chip cards have mag stripe and some merchants swipe the card. In such cases liability will be with merchants and their bankers. Cardholders and issuers need not worry.

If I remember correctly, the liability is with the merchants and their bankers in case of internet transactions where 2-Factor authentication is not used; even in international transactions.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

The transaction between ICICI & Citibank is NOT seamless from my experiences. Instead of an online payment between these two banks, I always prefer to drop a cheque in the ATMs, atleast 3 working days prior to the last date.

RBI has released a discussion paper on disincentivising issuance and usage of cheques - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc...anel/1067661/0

Credit card dues should be paid electronically. In case card holders make payments of card dues using cheques, then high convenience charge may be levied by the card issuing bank

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Karthik1100

Prepaid cards are of various varieties like Gift Card(not reloadable), Travel Card, General Purpose card etc depending on your need. Offered by Banks like CBI, BOB, Federal, HDFC, Karnataka, Ratnakar etc. Check their sites to know more.

Using a Prepaid card/ virtual card is definitely safer than using the regular cards.

I use a preloaded HDFC Forex Card for all my personal transactions when I travel abroad. Typically an amount of roughly USD1000 which is good for a week's trip and best part is if money is saved, i dont have to worry as it will continue to remain in that card account (its like a virtual atm card)

However, sad part it wont work after you land in India. I tried using it at Delhi Duty free upon landing in india, it didnt work.

And, I use a company provided AMEX card for business related transactions like accomodation, taxis, meals abroad etc.

I have never used my personal credit cards ( HDFC and ICICI) ever on my trips abroad, infact i dont carry them also during my trips.

Things till now have worked as a charm

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

If I remember correctly, the liability is with the merchants and their bankers in case of internet transactions where 2-Factor authentication is not used; even in international transactions.

I got information that it is up to the issuers to choose whether they want to mandate 2-Factor authentication and CVV2 verification for transactions performed at foreign sites. Banks have opted for this for debit cards and they have been lenient with credit cards. That is the reason for frauds with credit cards at internet merchants.

[binand]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

Chip cards have mag stripe and some merchants swipe the card. In such cases liability will be with merchants and their bankers. Cardholders and issuers need not worry.

If I remember correctly, the liability is with the merchants and their bankers in case of internet transactions where 2-Factor authentication is not used; even in international transactions.

First: The liability that you speak of kicks in *after* fraud has been perpetrated. It does not prevent fraud. It is, in other words, not a preventive control - the best sort there is.

Second: So, if fraud can be perpetrated in the current system, cardholders does need to worry. They do bear the brunt of the fraud for the duration of the fraudulent transaction to the reversal of the charge. What if you need to use your card in the interim? This means you cannot rely on the card as an emergency line of credit. [1]

Third: The fact remains that as you point out, the current system is designed to push all liability on to the merchant (with some to the cardholder). It is obviously unfair towards the merchants - how can they verify that the card they are accepting is a stolen one/fraudulently duplicated one? The reason the current system does not work, and the reason I don't like the PCI much, is that they treat it as a zero-sum game. [2]

[1] A long time back, when I was living in Europe, I booked some air tickets for self and family using my then (only) credit card. The cost of the tickets were roughly one-third of my total credit limit. Due to a snafu, BA ended up charging my card thrice (they were supposed to charge once, reverse that charge, and then charge again - but they performed three charges; novice ticketing desk staff) - which meant that for the duration of my trip, my card was effectively unusable. BA did fix the problem and was rather apologetic about it, but the fact remains that the problem did affect our holiday plans - though I did not suffer monetarily in any way.

[2] I, while being a cardholder, am also an employee of a firm that accepts card payments. I suspect a majority of us reading this are. If the merchant is liable for all fraud on the card, then it is something that affect us all, so we cannot call it an SEP and wish it away.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by binand

First: The liability that you speak of kicks in *after* fraud has been perpetrated. It does not prevent fraud. It is, in other words, not a preventive control - the best sort there is.

The purpose of fixing liability is to ensure that all the parties involved are compliant, it is a way of forcing compliance. In a fully compliant system, there is little possibility of fraud. Frauds happen because a lot of involved parties are not compliant and most of the banks issuing cards and acquiring transactions do not have specialized fraud management solutions.

The cardholder is inconvenienced when a fraud happens. The banks usually, give credit for the amount of fraud within a very short time, sometimes instantly upon complaint. Most of the cardholders have multiple cards and do not use the complete credit limit available. So, loss of line of credit happens in very few cases. BA experience is not relevant here as there was no fraud.

The main point is that banks have bits and pieces of solutions to prevent fraud and compliance is not complete. These should be set right to limit frauds. We may never be able to eliminate frauds. Just like virus writers, card fraudsters also seem to a step ahead.

[binand]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

The purpose of fixing liability is to ensure that all the parties involved are compliant, it is a way of forcing compliance.

This is where you and I disagree. In my view the purpose of fixing liability is to ensure that the banks are never required to pay out money. It is always either the cardholder or the merchant at fault.

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

The cardholder is inconvenienced when a fraud happens. The banks usually, give credit for the amount of fraud within a very short time, sometimes instantly upon complaint. Most of the cardholders have multiple cards and do not use the complete credit limit available. So, loss of line of credit happens in very few cases.

You have listed everything I wanted to say - that when fraud happens there is trouble all round, so the best solution is to ensure that fraud does not happen. I feel Chip-and-Pin does not achieve that - unless all the measures I listed a few posts back are implemented globally. Banks do not do that since they do not want to take on the expense - as far as they are concerned, the risk-reward for them as it stands today is very favourable so there is no incentive to improve upon things.

Also read: BBC is speculating that Chip-and-Pin is obsolete and it is time for biometrics now.

Perhaps this is going off-topic now - in which case, please feel free to PM me and we can continue this discussion.

[mobike008]

During a weak moment, got carried away and took this offer which is for HDFC Bank Credit Card members (selected, I suppose)

I paid Rs.6999 via. my HDFC Credit Card through an IVR system to Discover India ( a Lifestyle company who brings brands and offers together)

Benefits :-

1. Giordiono Watch worth Rs.5850 with 1 year warranty card

2. Discount Card that if you flash at any of the 2000 outlets in India will provide a benefit of discounts ranging from 5%-30%. Valid for 1 year

3. 2 Nights/3 Days Holiday twice in a year at 74 Destinations in India. You can club it into one holiday of 4 Nights/5 Days as well. During the stay everything is complimentary and has hotels like Country Club, Mahindra Resorts and similar to choose from. Valid for 1 year

Besides above, this is what cinched the deal :-

Submit one food bill as a proof that you spent a holiday as per #3 and they send you two cheques of Rs.2000 each back.

In principal, this offer will cost Rs.3000 in total but, has benefits of more than Rs.50,000 ( as per the sales pitch)

This is NOT an offer from HDFC Bank but, from a lifestyle company called Discover India.

I have already received SMS, email confirmations that my voucher/s and other stuff will be shortly dispatched.

Having said the above, I dont why? But, still get a feeling is the above worth it or was I taken for a ride?