[Raccoon]

^^^I guess it would be something not very straightforward when I glanced thru it.

So if its 25 paise for my Platinum card, they give 3 points per Rs. 150. So 75p per Rs. 150.

ICICI is giving 3 Payback points per Rs. 100. (on the card I intend to get). Ie. 75p per Rs. 100.

Added to this are the MUCH better options offered by Payback. ICICI wins hands down when it comes to rewards.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Branch and Ombudsman and all is fine, but as a customer you have ZERO evidence regarding your holdings in the account. So if one fine day the bank makes your savings vanish, the customer himself has absolutely no proof. In that case if I go to the Ombudsman or whatever saying had several million in my bank a/c, which have just vanished, who would he believe and how? With a passbook or statements at least you have something to show up till a recent date.

Well are you sure about no statement part ? In Citibank ERA IIRC I used to get periodic statement as mandated by RBI.

One method could be to take a print of your account statement and get is vetted by branch manager every quarter or so.

About passbook one day actually I went for passbook update in my SBI branck and the update printing was spanning many pages of passbook.
So cashier chidded me on why I have to get passbook updated when I have online access.
As per cashier passbook is no proof as customer can print anything in it and the records in system of bank will prevail ultimately.

[Raccoon]

^^^Absolutely sure. There is nothing given out by ICICI for their B2 a/c. You don't even get branch access. So getting statement vetted by branch manager is also not an option. The branch may not even have access to your account. IIRC you have access to only the Nodal branch in your city. In any case, I'd not have time or inclination to visit the branch. Not at least in working hours... might as well not use the a/c if it comes to that! The whole point of having online a/c (B2) or online access (for any a/c)is to save time, money and effort of going to the bank. And for the bank, it means reduced expenses.

Best thing is to have automated passbook printing machines in ATMs. Some banks have already started this. I saw a new PNB ATM nearby with the facility. I believe at least one more PSU has this facility at least at some ATMs. Wonder why private banks are lagging in this.

I was worried about the B2 account. If what you say holds, then we should be worried about normal savings and other accounts too. If suddenly the banks commit some fraud, or if hackers do some mischief, or something just fails for whatever reasons, you'd be left high and dry with no evidence that your pennies ever existed. I'm still left wondering if there are any safeguards in this kind of scenario.

[avingodb]

Originally Posted by binand

I have it for the past umpteen years

Thanks for the response, will watch out for the points you mentioned.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

As for the Indian Posts thingy - they do use couriers for everything else. So why only the PIN thru ordinary post?

I think you will find it to be the other way round - they send just about everything through India Post, and only select articles (credit cards, cheque books etc.) through private couriers. India Post does not offer the proof-of-delivery service yet, except for the "acknowledgement card" (which is sent back via India Post and doubles the cost) - whereas at least in the case of Blue Dart, there is electronic proof of delivery and a scanned copy of the recipient's ID taken using their mobile device.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Best thing is to have automated passbook printing machines in ATMs. [...] Wonder why private banks are lagging in this.

I actually think the opposite - the old PSU banks still insist on paper trails (passbooks and the like) while the newer private banks have taken the lead in becoming paperless. Saving countless trees in the process (not to mention costs for them).

Originally Posted by Raccoon

the account is a purely online account, and you get absolutely nothing in hard copy form [...] What kind of assurance/options/evidence/redressal/etc would the customer have in such cases?

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Branch and Ombudsman and all is fine, but as a customer you have ZERO evidence regarding your holdings in the account. [...] With a passbook or statements at least you have something to show up till a recent date.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

If suddenly the banks commit some fraud, or if hackers do some mischief, [...] if there are any safeguards in this kind of scenario.

First of all, you should know that the IT (Amendment) Act of 2008 made it possible to use digital signatures, at par with physical signatures in India. I expect the documents you get from ICICI Bank are digitally signed (my e-statements from HDFC Bank for my regular savings account are). This means that those electronic documents - PDF format, likely - are authenticated by an official representative of the bank.

Second - the kind of compliance requirements imposed by the regulators makes the scenario you outline almost impossible in practice. There will be access controls and audit trails all over the place. Even if the bank managed to do it, it will require the connivance of the entire IT team of the bank (and some third-parties). Then there is the requirement of involving other banks and financial institutions - they will have records of transfers in and out, payments etc. Don't worry that the bank will one fine morning make your account cease to exist. :-)

[Raccoon]

^^^That reminds me - ICICI wouldn't accept other bank statements for proof of address, even thought I showed them original hardcopy statements that I received thru post. They said they can accept them only if I get them stamped and signed at the branch. Now this is absolutely absurd. Original copies of statements, esp. for banks like HDFC look... well original! I doubt they can be duplicated easily as they come on specific type of paper, specific colour, etc. On the other hand, they are ready to accept copies of other docs like PAN card, voter card, phone bills, electricity bills, etc. No need for attesting those! Gawd knows what logic is behind that, if any. So basically, the statements that you get home thru mail also are of little value.

As for digital signatures on digital docs like pdfs, well, ICICI does not send any of those for their B2 a/c either. All you can do is log in and specify parameters for generating a statement in whatever file format you want (Excel, PDF or whatever). I don't think they are digitally signed... so I guess anybody can just edit them.

As for accounts turning into thin air, yes, I did think about many of those things. Heaps of cross linkages will be there, esp. in old accounts. So while making the accout itself vanish may be very difficult, but I'm not sure how difficult it would be to make a certain amount vanish from your balance. That was my concern.

For eg. phone companies do this. Airtel for eg. used to regularly make a certain amount from pre-paid balance just go up in air. No explanation... I mean not like they have to activate a service or something. And now such a company has entered into the financial arena with Airtel Money. RED is exactly what I saw when I heard about it. Have had the same experience with Tata Docomo, though less frequent and they refund (and call it a goodwill gesture!) if you have lots of time to fight with them.

Quite possible that the compliance requirements/regulations or whatever in the finance field may be much tougher... or so I like to think. Else there is no telling what tricks these unscrupulous companies (or their employees) will think of.

[prajwalkashyap]

These banks work very funny. I really feel like laughing. Had applied for a Credit Card from Stanchart website over 3 weeks ago. I get a call half a min after I applied. A day later I get a call from them wanting to confirm from me whether I had really applied. I said yes I did. 2 days later I get a reconfirmation call and given a list of docs to be kept ready and they would send a person to complete the formalities. That person to-date is still searching for my house. The mistake I did was not noting the application #.

I cant reapply for a month on the website. I get that message as soon as I complete the initial form. I am trying to reach their phone system to at least try and get the application #, but nobody is available to talk to. Their IVR requests to call back never reaches anyone.

These companies go head over heels to sell credit cards, and here I am applying for one feeling silly that I did, coz nobody in StanChart wants to sell me one! I have had a long standing relationship with Citi for about 9 years and not defaulted even once. So no question of bad credit history or anything such.

How often does this happen?

Prajwal

[rkg]

Did any one tried or use SBI signature card?

Appears good, with 2 movie tickets every month from book my show for swiping the card and Direct Points conversion to cash @ of Rs 0.25/point

[mpksuhas]

^^ StanChart credit card division is in a league of its own. I was having a Barclays credit card around last year I got SMS saying my card will be re- issued with StanChart since Barclay's credit card division is taken over by them. My Barclays card got deactivated, no information for some 2 weeks and then another SMS saying since my address is wrong they are unable to deliver my card. Called up and said address is fine, another 2 weeks and same story. Then I call up customer care and they can not take a request since I dont have card number of the card which was not send to me, so I send them a mail with my new deactivated Barclays card number. 2 weeks later I get call from courier guy with new card. That after few years of good customer support from Barclay was a spoiler for me.
Another bad experience while changing contact address (in nutshell it took around a month and some 4 mails) made me plan of cancellation of the card.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

On the other hand, they are ready to accept copies of other docs like PAN card, voter card, phone bills, electricity bills, etc. No need for attesting those!

I'm sure they asked you to self-attest those documents.

[nkapoor777]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

^^^Mine is supposed to be free. I was told its being given based on my relation with the bank/customer profile.

Customer care exec confirmed it on phone. Still, can't believe oral assurances. Will ask for an email confirmation. Would this be enough, or should I insist on a hardcopy letter?

I don't intend to keep it till next year, if it has any annual charges of any kind.

Platinum Plus card as shown on the HDFC site does show an annual fee.

Fee levels vary from case to case. In my case, I got the Platinum Plus card from HDFC more than 4 years ago and at the time of completing the application form, I was given a copy of a declaration which I signed. It was titled Life time Free card at the top and went on to detail the T&C for the offer. And no, it wasn't tied to any minimum spending limit either. Whats more, they upgraded the card to Visa Signature a couple of years ago and the life time fee waiver was continued.

Check with HDFC and insist on getting something on their letterhead (email will also do).

Originally Posted by Raccoon

^^^I guess it would be something not very straightforward when I glanced thru it.

So if its 25 paise for my Platinum card, they give 3 points per Rs. 150. So 75p per Rs. 150.

ICICI is giving 3 Payback points per Rs. 100. (on the card I intend to get). Ie. 75p per Rs. 100.

Added to this are the MUCH better options offered by Payback. ICICI wins hands down when it comes to rewards.

For the HDFC CC rewards program, let me calculate with the help of an example. A gift voucher worth Rs. 500 at Shoppers Stop requires 1650 reward points. At the rate of 3 points accumulated for every Rs 150 spent, you would need to spend Rs. 82500. This results in a value of just over 60 paise per Rs. 100 spent on the card. Hope it helps.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by binand

I'm sure they asked you to self-attest those documents.

Nopes. They want statements that are stamped and signed by the branch. Extremely strange, as they are ready to accept phone and electricity bills without such nonsense!

Originally Posted by nkapoor777

Fee levels vary from case to case. In my case, I got the Platinum Plus card from HDFC more than 4 years ago and at the time of completing the application form, I was given a copy of a declaration which I signed. It was titled Life time Free card at the top and went on to detail the T&C for the offer. And no, it wasn't tied to any minimum spending limit either. Whats more, they upgraded the card to Visa Signature a couple of years ago and the life time fee waiver was continued.

Check with HDFC and insist on getting something on their letterhead (email will also do).




For the HDFC CC rewards program, let me calculate with the help of an example. A gift voucher worth Rs. 500 at Shoppers Stop requires 1650 reward points. At the rate of 3 points accumulated for every Rs 150 spent, you would need to spend Rs. 82500. This results in a value of just over 60 paise per Rs. 100 spent on the card. Hope it helps.

Thanks that was some useful math. I'v conculuded that HDFC does not fare well at all when it comes to either the value of their points or their rewards catalogue. In fact it seems to be at the bottom, in this respect. ICICI/Payback is much better. That makes for an interesting question - which are the most lucrative cards in India, wrt reward points? The Stanchart card with 5% cashback aginst many types of payments seems like the most benificial to me.

I believe, I too had to sign a form where it was mentioned lifetime free on the top. My mistake is that in the hurry, I didn't make a copy of the same. Anyway, will try to get a mail from HDFC regarding the life time free status, to avoid issues later.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Nopes. They want statements that are stamped and signed by the branch. Extremely strange, as they are ready to accept phone and electricity bills without such nonsense!

I was talking of the phone/electricity bills. Didn't they make you self-attest photostat copies of those?

[Raccoon]

^^^Now that I think of it, I think they did make me sign on the photocopies. Can't recall exactly though

Originally Posted by J.Ravi

Just now, I redeemed 30,500 points for a Prestige Induction Cook-Top worth~Rs 4,495 and kitchen set worth Rs 2,420, earned mostly from my Axis Bank Priority Credit Card.

While Prestige Induction Cook-Top was delivered on 17 May 2013, I did not get the accompanying kitchen set. When I sent emails to the customer care of Axis Bank, there was no response. When I called Axis Bank phone banking, they refused to raise a ticket on this issue. I complained in Axis Bank website in 3 levels. I posted messages in Facebook, Twitter and Mouthshut. Only in Facebook, there was a response to the effect that somebody from the customer care would contact me.

By that time, I got fed up and tranferred some considerable amount from our 2 Priority accounts to our accounts in State Bank of India. I was in the verge of transferring more money to SBI by which time, a lady staffer from Axis Bank eDGE loyalty rewards programme contacted me. She started telling a story to the effect that whatever Prestige supplied was delivered to me. When I pointed out that kitchen set was very much alive in their website catalogue, she denied stating that it has been removed. I challenged her to go and see their website. She then told me that it would be removed from their website shortly! But, till today, the item code AD 29 assures kitchen set along with the cook-top. Here is the link: http://www.axisbank.com/edge-loyalty...ing_Deals.html

Then, she called me again and assured that I would get it before the last Friday. But, I got it delivered today at last. Phew! It was uphill task and very tiring for me.