[rselva]

@bblost
@Thad E Ginathom
Do I agree that a series of low probability events when sampled over a large population shows high fatality? Yes

Do I condone the behavior of the Parents who allowed their children to peep through the sunroof? No

Do I consider them incompetent parents, morons and other such choice words being used by commenters? No, definitely not.
A typical Indian buys a Sunroof equipped vehicle so the passengers can pop out and enjoy the scenery and the wind. In a typical Indian’s car, except for the driver, none of the passengers wear seat belt – the typical Indian driver is not risk averse. Considering this human nature and the fact that manjha slitting throats would not be a scenario that the parents would have envisioned, their behaviour was ‘normal’. We may debate if this ‘normal’ behavior is ideal or not until the cows come home, but the fact is human behavior is a continuum- very few people fall in the ideal range.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Cars are not places to indulge children so that they are happy --- although with correct training, the youngsters will enjoy their drives as much as any of us.



Bottom line is nothing to do with sunroofs or manja: A child should be properly secured in a car at all times. And so should you and I and all our passengers.

Well said sir. Have been following this thread for a while without commenting. Our "chalta hai" culture is responsible for a number of responses here and more broadly for India's lack of success in multiple fields. We have one of the highest death rate per km driven of any country in the world. And people claim that accidents are rare.

While I feel sorry for parents who lost a child, the driver of the car and any other adult in it is guilty of causing the child's death through negligence.

Kids do as they are trained. My son who is now 8.5, was brought home from the hospital in a child seat. We did have a tough time in his 2s and 3s when he realised that all his friends at play school sat in the front seat of their cars. But he is now so used to buckling up that he objects to travelling in taxis which lack a rear seat belt, and insists that his friends buckle up while travelling with us.

At least on Team BHP, which is populated with folks fond of cars and educated about them, I expect people to follow basic precautions - if not for themselves, then for their kids.

[sgiitk]

@rselva; We are a strongly fatalist nation. We have blind faith in the almighty to protect us. Unfortunate but true.

Just look at the number of accidents caused by people going up a road the wrong way, and sometimes 'under the influence'.

[TD_GHY]

Originally Posted by rselva

A typical Indian buys a Sunroof equipped vehicle so the passengers can pop out and enjoy the scenery and the wind. In a typical Indian’s car, except for the driver, none of the passengers wear seat belt – the typical Indian driver is not risk averse. Considering this human nature and the fact that manjha slitting throats would not be a scenario that the parents would have envisioned, their behaviour was ‘normal’. We may debate if this ‘normal’ behavior is ideal or not until the cows come home, but the fact is human behavior is a continuum- very few people fall in the ideal range.

Do we not have the responsibility to mention to unaware people that "Sunroof is not meant for joyrides", " Seatbelts are not for evading police fines only" instead of justifying such acts as normal simply because "This is India". One drop at a time formed the ocean - a pretty old saying.

Before such incidents actually happen, not realizing the gravity of the situation is kind of acceptable, given the low awareness we suffer from. But after you've read this thread, or have been informed by a concerned individual, simply laughing it off is not. For example - The XUV500 example and the BMW example as posted by members few posts earlier, despite them being informed of repercussions, they chose to ignore. Cuss words like " idiots", "incompetent parents" definitely suit them.

[carwatcher]

I am sure popping your head from sunroof would be common across the world including developed nations.

I would say it's kind of human psychology or urge to stand and enjoy the wind through sunroof without thinking too much about the consequences like say checking the wet paint by touching even though it's clearly written or told that paint is wet.

Come to think of it all the marketing strategies irrespective of the product are based after analysing the human psychology, isn't it.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I am sure popping your head from sunroof would be common across the world including developed nations........

It's as wrong in a first world country as here (humans are fatalists everywhere to some degree), but the kids there at least have some protection under the law from being endangered by ignorant adults. Isn't fool-proof but something's better than nothing.

Here, the kid will just get written off an an unfortunate incidental statistic, victim to the vagaries of the God on the dashboard who refused to protect the child for reasons best known to him/her.

[carwatcher]

But don't you think that in our country, media and public would support the parents and make the police and judiciary feel miserable even though they are doing there duty. Till sometime back we had a law for prosecuting persons who survived trying to commit suicide.
We will have comments like police have many more important things to do, or catch the dangerous criminals first, etc etc.
In other countries which are often cited as an example, if a layman just informs the police about someone standing from the open sunroof, the culprit is taken care of while here it's like mind your own business.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

It's as wrong in a first world country as here, but the kids there at least have some protection under the law from being endangered by ignorant adults. Isn't fool-proof but something's better than nothing.

Here, the kid will just get written off an an unfortunate incidental statistic, victim to the vagaries of the God on the dashboard who refused to protect the child for reasons best known to him/her.

OT : On a lighter note, I never thought I would support this but it seems fake sunroofs now look sensible.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by rselva

@bblost
@Thad E Ginathom
Do I agree that a series of low probability events when sampled over a large population shows high fatality? Yes

Do I condone the behavior of the Parents who allowed their children to peep through the sunroof? No

Do I consider them incompetent parents, morons and other such choice words being used by commenters? No, definitely not.

Essentially, they are ignorant, in the sense that they have never been taught the risk. But still, I don't rate their intelligence very highly if they cannot work out for themselves that there is a danger.

A typical Indian buys a Sunroof equipped vehicle so the passengers can pop out and enjoy the scenery and the wind. In a typical Indian’s car, except for the driver, none of the passengers wear seat belt – the typical Indian driver is not risk averse. Considering this human nature and the fact that manjha slitting throats would not be a scenario that the parents would have envisioned, their behaviour was ‘normal’. We may debate if this ‘normal’ behavior is ideal or not until the cows come home, but the fact is human behavior is a continuum- very few people fall in the ideal range.

it is not human nature: it is human ignorance, and yes, whether you like it or not, it is utter human stupidity.

However, as a forum, Team-BHP mostly has a higher regard for the concept of educating people, as simply insulting them is generally not productive. But if you want to argue the bottom line of the inteligence levels involved in this, and other dangerous behaviour, what can we say?

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I am sure popping your head from sunroof would be common across the world including developed nations.

I can only speak for one such country. People would be arrested for that kind of behaviour. Where the risk is taken with children, it might well move beyond traffic offences and into the realm where it even becomes possible that child-care authorities would go to court to have children removed from a family that treats them with abject irresponsibility.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I am sure popping your head from sunroof would be common across the world including developed nations.

I would say it's kind of human psychology or urge to stand and enjoy the wind through sunroof without thinking too much about the consequences like say checking the wet paint by touching even though it's clearly written or told that paint is wet.

Come to think of it all the marketing strategies irrespective of the product are based after analysing the human psychology, isn't it.

I have spent close to 5 years in USA (which, as most indicators would say, is a developed nation ) - have not seen a single soul popping out of sunroof and enjoying the breeze on public roads. Except Vegas. Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[Ace F355]

What a horrible way to die!

I am sure this incident will spark a debate on these Chinese manjha so on and so forth, however like everything else this debate will go down without any firm conclusions/recommendations. Both coated manjha and popping heads out of sunroof are manace and should be stopped. Alas, safety is taken so lightly in our country, I am sure nothing will happen to prevent this kind of tragedy in future.

[carwatcher]

Vegas is in USA and by similar logic there are very few cities in our country where kites are flown.
I think everyone here agrees that the act of standing inside sunroof is wrong but I am sure it's not India specific.
I wonder why the size of Sunroof is kept in such a way that a human being can comfortably fit inside, any thoughts.

Originally Posted by blackasta

I have spent close to 5 years in USA (which, as most indicators would say, is a developed nation ) - have not seen a single soul popping out of sunroof and enjoying the breeze on public roads. Except Vegas. Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[Ananthc]

Very sad incident and we need to ensure our own safety as these accidents are prone to happen in various modes. Really unfortunate. In chennai the manja kites are banned and I remember few people were also arrested post a similar incident happened where a kid was killed while was going to school with his/ her dad.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Vegas is in USA and by similar logic there are very few cities in our country where kites are flown.
I think everyone here agrees that the act of standing inside sunroof is wrong but I am sure it's not India specific.
I wonder why the size of Sunroof is kept in such a way that a human being can comfortably fit inside, any thoughts.

very few cities in our country where kites are flown - Have to disagree with this. Almost all cities/states I know have tradition of flying kites, which arguably, is dying out due to kids taking to other means of enjoyment.

I wonder why the size of Sunroof is kept in such a way that a human being can comfortably fit inside, any thoughts - So wherever you can fit , you shall try to squeeze through? The bus window is wide enough to poke your head out, and so you'll do that? And when you get decapitated by the truck you'll blame the bus manufacturer !! All car windows are wide enough for a human being to get in/out - do you get in out of the car via window? by your logic, the panoramic sunroof in the X3 is there so that the whole family can stand up and enjoy the wind in their hair !!

[carwatcher]

As I gave some thought and did some googling, I think the sunroofs can be helpful in rescuing the passengers in certain mishaps.
At the same time I think you could've replied politely as in my last few posts I have clearly mentioned that I neither support such acts and wouldn't try them anytime.

Originally Posted by blackasta

So wherever you can fit , you shall try to squeeze through? The bus window is wide enough to poke your head out, and so you'll do that? And when you get decapitated by the truck you'll blame the bus manufacturer !! All car windows are wide enough for a human being to get in/out - do you get in out of the car via window? by your logic, the panoramic sunroof in the X3 is there so that the whole family can stand up and enjoy the wind in their hair !!

[Jomz]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I am sure popping your head from sunroof would be common across the world including developed nations.

No, it is not common in the US. I've seen only one case - and it was 2 Indians & their kid. They got ticketed by the first cop who seen them.